Dublin Core
Title
Luis
Subject
Oral history from Panama to Lawrence, Kansas
Description
Luis came to Kansas from Santiago de Veraguas, Panama. Due to limited opportunities in Panama, he arrived in Kansas to pursue a Masters degree at Emporia State University. However, things were not always so positive: when he first arrived at the Kansas City International airport, the individual that promised to pick him up never showed up. Despite the challenges, he persevered through numerous obstacles and ultimately decided to pursue a Ph.D. at the University of Kansas. Today, he continues his research and studies while teaching students Spanish.
Source
Date
2010s
Language
English
Coverage
Lawrence, Kansas
Oral History Item Type Metadata
Transcription
Luis (L)
Joohye (J)
L: My name is Luis Sanchez. I'm a Panamanian student from Panama, Santiago de Veraguas, Panama.
L: I came to the United States for the first time ever. That was 15 years old. I was in high school in Panama and they won a scholarship to–for an Intensive English Program in Northwest Missouri State University, which I stayed for two months.
L: That's pretty much of a bubble when I went over there in the sense that everything was provided, you know, like very like our interaction was…not manipulated. That's a strong word, was controlled or when did we go out? We went out.
L: I was 15 years old. So I guess it's understandable.
L: Then I went back to Panama with a pretty clear sort of impression of what life in an academic environment looked like.
L: For the next years of my life, up until I was 22, I stayed in Panama when finished my finish high school. And I got my undergraduate degree from the University of Panama. And then when I finished that, I was working in a call center and I got this opportunity to come to Emporia State University, in Emporia, Kansas to be a GTA, a graduate teaching assistant for the composition department, for the English department, sorry, in the compensation program.
L: So I decided to go ahead and do that. It was pretty rough. That opportunity was a great opportunity and I am pretty grateful and, you know, like all the things that I experienced or valuable, however, it was very difficult to go through it financially speaking.
L: Emotionally speaking, it was a little bit of a roller coaster, but I was already in that–already, that kinda person in that point in my life in which I was very open to changes.
L: I guess I was raised with this mentality of just take whatever opportunity you can No. Just kidding. But yeah. I was raised with that mentality was like take whatever opportunity you can–carpe diem. Abroad, study abroad. I'll just go for it. That's why I went, but I wasn't really thinking everything that it meant.
L: It meant living on a minimum wage salary because that's what they paid me at that time. In here in Kansas, it was like $7.25 an hour and 20 hours max. So what was making? I was very, very tight budget.
L: But I did that for two years until I graduated The English with an English MA. Ironically, all the classes that I took over there [at Emporia State] were related to Latin America. Well, most of them, not all of them. Of course, you have to take your rhetoric classes during history of English classes and all that.
L: Because up until that point, I thought that I just really wanted to do English literature. I want it. I liked literature, I like reading books. I liked the discipline and I wanted to know more. And English gave me that sort of leeway, that door that I could begin doing that. I said I can do that over there and just getting my degree, but by the end of my master's program and I'm Boys State University, I had all these classes that had to do with Spanish Literature. In a way, I mean, look, look, look. I was looking at them through the lens of this English studies or English literature sort of thing, so to speak.
L: So, you know, I had a very good mentor. Her name was Rachel Espalding at Emporia State shia helped me a lot. She got it in yellow and she gave me a lot of advice on what to do and not to do. And I remember her saying that after I was done with my masters, she was like, “Hey, if you don't know what you wanna do, why don't you stay here and you teach Spanish for a year? And then we'll see what happens after that.”
L: And the idea of teaching Spanish at that point was a little bit like weird for me because I had been studying English over time. And teaching my own language wasn't something that I had like seriously considered or had done before in my life.
L: So I went ahead and thought about it and decided, you know what, I'm gonna do it and I have a lot of momentum, so to speak, in my life right now. And I'm gonna go with it and see where it takes me.
L: So I taught Spanish for a whole year after I [graduated?] with my MA in Emporia State. And then in order to be able to do that, because I was an international student, I enrolled in a class that has something sort of like related to teaching. And that was TESOL, which was teaching is teaching digital English as a second language. The problem was that the TESOL program at ESU as a completely online. As an international student, that's not something that's allowed. You have to take face-to-face classes. One thing one way that we did to go about it was that I was also enrolled in this program for IDT, instructional design and technology. That was face-to-face. I was getting a certificate and IDT taken face-to-face classes on that while I was taking all the online classes for the TESOL program while I was teaching Spanish simultaneously.
L: So I was doing that. I did that for a year.
L: The problem was that just teaching Spanish just wasn't doing the trick for me. I was still missing the literature reviews, reading the novels, analyzing them, or reading nonfiction.
L: And I love doing that.
L: And I was like, I'm a little bit not doing what I wanted to do.
L: So I was like maybe I can start applying for a PhD programs. And this is when again, my mentor told me is like the best way I think I could start it you can do since the market right now for jobs after you graduate is pretty tight is to try to diversify and use that Spanish background that you have. So you can be in the position you want. And she said, I think a masters or a PhD in Spanish literature would really do the trick for you because since you are interested in, in literature is you're just switching the language, but you're still basically going to be doing the same. And you can focus in on those papers that you've written for us in the last years that were in Central America, Central American literature in the Boom. And it's part of, it's part of it all.
L: And I was like, sure, that sounds like a good idea.
L: So I applied okay, use It's very important to department Spanish and Portuguese PhD program that year. And it was a little bit it was a bit weird because I ended up being accepted into their masters program instead of their PhD.
L: So I was upset, but in hindsight, it was it was for the best. It was necessary. That's how we needed to happen. I just I just needed to trust what was going on in that moment.
L: But in the moment I was upset. I remember that was like No, and I was planned blah, blah, blah. But anyway, I entered KU’s department of Spanish and Portuguese masters program in 2019. Oh, actually, sorry. Fall 2018. If I'm not wrong, I could be wrong about that one.
L: Then I started doing my masters there. I really liked it. I think I was in a place where I was doing what I want it. I studied very hard. I made friends there and got to know the professors and it was great.
L: And it was a lot better than, you know, financially than than I was when I was an ESU because the feeling that was the most recurring for me was of this being pinned to the wall. Sort of like a sort of like a like a rag doll or something like that where you are like leaning against the wall and then there's little pins that don't let you move and there's like little things that you can do. And that's how I felt a lot of times when I was at ESU.
L: Not really because the people there, because I met wonderful people there. But it was mostly because of the situation. I was making. I wasn't making enough money because as an international student, I couldn't work outside campus. There were very limited options I had; my parents couldn't send me much money or any money at all because they just don't make them. What do you want to compare two here. Compared to here.
L: And so I was, there were many times in which I seriously considered going back to Panama. And I was, I was lucky and fortunate enough that I met people that were willing to help me and that went outside of their way to help me do that thing, do this thing.
L: So I cannot say that I did that just by myself. I had a lot of people helping me.
L: There were a lot of times in which if somebody hadn't intervened, I wouldn't have been able to do it.
L: So my experience is not like, Oh, I just went and did this thing, everybody else can do it. That's that I feel like such a fake to say that because not–that would be assuming that everyone's going to have my same luck.
L: You need both things: You need your luck and your preparation.
L: Both things to be able to do it. And that is I think the most of your current feeling that I had, at least during my time in Emporia, I came to KU and that decreased a lot, I would say. But I was still feeling pin for different reasons.
L: I think mostly because just here, I feel like this country is a lot different than Panama in terms of health care. Obviously, that is one of the things that worried me the most and one of the reasons for why every time my mom asked me, “Are you planning to stay and get a job over there?” I always answers like, “I don't know if it's” because I don't yeah, it's great and it makes a lot more money than I would probably ever make in Panama.
L: But I don't I'm afraid that one day I will have an accident and then I'll, you know, financially screwed forever because fricking health, health care is just not good enough.
L: One of the things that really worries me is how fragile. The whole thing is. How I'm just basically going on the momentum of things just hopping from one opportunity to the next one. And then the moment that something goes wrong, there's very little contingency that that can happen. I can say that now I have built a little bit more of a pillow for it. If anything ever happens.
L: That's like in the great scheme of things, it's not much.
L: And I can't imagine why, like newer generations of students or people that are just beginning to do this are going through because it's only going to refer.
L: Here. I wasn't part of the story I was telling was that I was at KU. Do my master's. I finished it. I finished my masters in Chapter two years of completing it, and then I applied to do the PhD program here so I can continue working on what I wanted to work.
L: And here's what I am. And my third semester of my PhD program, it's been a little bit over six years. And in the United States, I left San Diego to work in and poorest state.
L: That is more or less made journey the United States has been in a lot of decision-making, having to be super flexible, not letting stress completely overwhelm you because that's not as a survival strategies like just letting stress just numbs your mind and you can't just think clear.
L: And that's something that I had to I had to deal with but, but deal with, but stress was still there nonetheless.
L: I can talk about this very particular time. Just very good example of one time I was super stressed when I was in Emporia. I had to leave my apartment because my roommate and I were having a lot of disagreements and I had to live it and I didn't have enough money for a deposit for a new apartment.
L: And I can only afford an apartment that was under $300 a month. That's as much as they could afford on my paycheck on that considering all the discounts they did and all the fees that I had to pay the university.
L: So for whatever reason. Somebody let me stay in their apartment for like two-three months. But even after that, I was also going trying to say the least, this extra little room there, but for whatever reason, I ended up finding this apartment that was under $300. And it was like a very small studio apartment. And asked what I was going to decide that this is where I'm going to live for the semester.
L: However, I had everything set up until they said that the deposit was twice the amount of rent and you'd have to pay this this and this. And I just simply didn't have that kind of money. It was like $500. And I remember one of my friends said she asked “What's up? What's the matter? What what's happening?” And I said “I'm seriously considering just not finished my masters here and just go back to Panama with the little money I have. Buy a plane ticket, and just go back to Panama tomorrow night. And that's because I cannot afford an apartment.”
L: It's kinda like playing checkmate and that is just playing chess and there's just no more moves, like absolutely no more moves. And then she said, “I'll write you a check, you'll pay me back whenever you have it.” And she let me borrow $500. Now I was like thank you very much. I didn't have any words. I was like, okay, this is, this is one thing that's happening.
L: And I really appreciate it. Appreciate it in unfortunately, that person and I are not really talking anymore other than other things that have nothing to do with it.
L: But I really appreciated her her gesture and she helped me and that's that's a big part of the reason for why I'm still here today. Because I found people in the way that we're willing to help another person.
L: And then that's one example of one time that I just felt like super, super like I don't I don't think this is going to work out and not because it has nothing to do with my will to work.
L: It wasn't because I was being lazy, wasn't because I wasn't being focused enough or it wasn't because I wasn't working hard enough–it was entirely and absolutely because the rules of the game, how everything was set up, there were just no more moves, so it's no more possible options for me to be able to stay in the United States in that, in that fashion.
L: So that's one thing that happened where I felt like this was just not meant for me to happen. I was just lucky that somebody helped and stepped in.
L: And then I lived in that apartment for I think it was a little bit over a year, year-and-a-half.
L: The reason for why I ended up leaving, because the landlord did not respect the rules of my contract. And they tried to kick me out a month before.
L: Yeah.
L: They tried to kick me out amongst a whole month before my apartment under the claim that they said that they didn't have a payment for my rent, which I had receipts and everything.
L: So they proceeded to throw all my stuff away out of the apartment and keep them in this little room, but they threw a lot of it away. And when I protested and I said, “Here's the receipt” and it's like, okay, we were in the wrong and I was like, “Okay, now I want you to pay back for the match rates and those stuff.” And they basically said, we're not going to pay for something old. Something–appear as if it was new, since it was old, they didn't want to pay it at all.
L: And I had I had to go to the Emporia small claims court. I had to talk to a lot of people. It was very stressful, but it was one of those times where I just felt like the world wanted to just mess mess me over, screw me over essentially.
L: After like three months of talking to them and going to small claims court, I got some money back and some replacement.
L: It wasn't really much compared to really the damages, but I didn't know what I was doing.
L: I had never sued anyone because that's basically what I ended up doing. I didn't know how much money to ask or anything.
L: But it was [exhales] it was very stressful and a horrible situation that I don't wish on anybody.
L: Yeah, That is a good example as though when I felt like there's not very many options for me. There's not very many things I can do to just keep moving forward, you know.
L: So yeah.
L: And then luckily after that…After after that happened with my landlord and the awful experience of essentially being wrongfully–it's called wrongful eviction, wrongfully evicted. I lived with my with my girlfriend for a month.
L: And then I will put a month. I think it was a little bit over that until they completely moved over to Lawrence because I started my program at the Department of Spanish and Portuguese.
L: So that's basically two examples that I can give when the times where things it was the darkest hour, I guess, where I honestly didn't know what I was gonna do and then know what I was going to live. Didn't know what the heck was going to happen. If I didn't, I was like, Oh my gosh, if I didn't know these people, there wasn't somebody that I that I can say, “Hey, can I stay over at your–at your house for the night?”
L: What would have happened?
L: You know, and–and I know I'm sure that people would say it's the Lord's or some religious explanation. I myself, I'm not a very religious person.
L: But I can say that it's, it's pretty messed up that you want to excuse, that you would try to excuse a system from its failures by saying like, Oh, this is some, how we're supposed to happen.
L: So I found a lot of people in my life that would tell me, try to tell me that and it would particularly annoyed me to hear that “no, this is not how it's supposed to happen.” This happened because the lack of consideration for for for people that don't make that much money.
L: I don't know…There's been many instances in which I feel like there are institutions, there are situations, at least here in the United States and this part, part of Kansas that literally prey on the poor.
L: They judge one people to be poor and those are the ones that people like the most vulnerable.
L: And like like my fricking landlord that they thought I wasn't going to do anything because I was an international student. As I'm not gonna pay your things new because they were old.
L: That's that's expecting me to just be like, okay, you know, humble down and back down. And I was like No, no, no.
L: So that was my first, That was my first year as an important and I'm just saying the bad things to make some sort of statement.
L: But at the same time, I also met a lot of great people, people that were willing to work at. Again, people that helped me, people that consider that I was in a very vulnerable situation in my life. And that's mostly what I am grateful. I am grateful that I may make awesome connections.
J: And I don't just study them because of what they did for me. But because I was able to learn a lot from them.
L: So yeah.
L: I don't know if there's anything else that you would like me to do.
J: I really appreciate your specific examples. And yes, that's exactly what we're looking for in the way he told her story was absolutely perfect.
J: And also, I'm curious, would you be willing to share some more positive, brighter, specific examples from your life in contrast to the ones you share?
L: Well, as I said, the fact that somebody let me say that when when I needed the most, it was something that I thought was like, I don't think that many people back in Panama would do this for me.
L: But I can tell you one quick, that sort of set set the mood for everything that was to come.
L: The first night that I arrived in Kansas City and MCI on the airport, there was a pandemic. There's a Panamanian teacher, professor at ESU, that it was the one who helped me with everything and set everything up. He was my point of contact and everything right.
L: I was supposed to stay the night with in his sleep on his couch for the night and then he was going to help me find an apartment and a blah blah blah and for whatever reason that didn't happen as planned.
L: He I think he would he got to basically doing things that he got that night, but he was just picking up his phone. And I was very worried. I didn't know what I was going to sleep. I didn't know a single soul in this part [of Kansas].
L: It was three in the morning. It was cold and it was dark. And I didn't recognize. Because it's my first day in the United States after, you know, ever since I was 15, as I said before, that that was very I was very worried.
L: But anyway, so I was about to stay the night at a hotel. That's what it was going to do. I was like, Okay, he's not picking up. It's almost three in the morning. And I need to sleep; I've been traveling all day.
L: And tomorrow. I mean, saying they actually mean in the morning, I need to be somewhere for the orientation. It was like I had to be there at nine in the morning, so I was just going to sleep for a few hours and then pack up my stuff.
L: And I was I was looking for hotels and I was looking for a place. And then somebody came to me, somebody from Emporia from the, I think it was like local church members that would volunteer to help or greet international students. And he was helping me call the hotels or the more like the cheapest possible option.
L: And then I remember he said he said, “I want you to hang up that phone. And just would you mind sleeping in my couch?” And I was like, “Yeah, that would really help me. That would really help me because all I need us to sleep for a few hours, getting my stuff and then go to the introduction.”
L: And then that's why what I did. I slept in his couch and I was very grateful that he did that. And then I spent the rest of the day–the rest of the day. Next morning, I guess, walking around campus with suitcase on my hand, going to the workshops with my suitcases and my hands and trying to get a hold of the professor that was supposed to help me.
L: And until the very end of the day, it was like at 7 P.M. when he finally answered and it was like, Dude, where have you been?
L: I remember I remember that. I remember that his kindness that his name was Karen foresight. His kindness not only set the tone for what was to come, like, how my ears, we're going to be like, yeah, this is gonna be harsh and you're going to need people to help you.
L: It was like you also have to be more flexible and be ready. Be ready that sometimes things have just not going to go the way you think they're gonna go.
L: That was, that was like, uh, you could, you could think of it as like a negative moment, but you can also think of it as a positive in the sense that as a stranger that just helped me out and as the reason for why it's a big part of part of the reasons for why I'm here.
L: Because somebody came and helped me.
L: Another good thing is that I can call, I can, I can mention at the top of my head is the-the professors. The professors that I met at ESU. They were great. They were passionate about what they did. They lamented the fact that the university wasn’t paying me enough. They lamented the fact that I wasn't such a tough situation and they just tried to help me.
L: I don't think that I would have become as passionate and interested in. I feel that I'm doing right now in getting at PhD, if I hadn't met the professors that I met in Emporia and the professors that are made here at KU, they served us as a model.
L: And and I just I don't know. I think that before I came to the United States, I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life or what I wanted it to look like.
L: And I've been able to sort of like mold my thinking. Not just really like who I am, but like my, my thinking how, how do I want to approach life?
L: I like the fact that now I can be like, What do I want my life to look like in five years? Why do I want my life to look like in a few months? Do I want to be in a situation that looks like this?
L: That has been just invaluable. And that is the most positive thing that I have from this journey.
L: It's been this experience that has helped me grow and it has helped me become a different person that I don't think my parents or my sisters or any of my relatives would recognize, you know, I don't think I'm the same person that left the airport at that so much time ago.
L: Yeah.
L: Does that answer the question?
J: Yes, it does.
J: And you did touch on this end. I was wondering if you mentioned having it was important to you that you grew up with with sort of like an open-mind or like that mentality, you know, like let's take these chances. And also you stressed how it was really important to be flexible in a lot of your situations.
J: Is there anything else you'd like to add on for just general advice or wisdom reflecting back on your journey or everything you've learned?
L: Well–I'm not entirely sure that I would call that open mind. I mean, yeah, it sounds like it and I can see why it is, but it's more like…
L: Okay, okay, how about this?
L: It is very common, I think, the idea that the idea here in the United States that if you live with your parents, that turns–tends to not have a very positive connotation. It tends to be more like, oh, you're a loser type of thing, right?
L: And that's usually because your parents or parents here, generationally speaking, they tend to have a lot more money than their children, right? That's fair.
L: Not all the cases. This a generalization obviously. I'm just talking in big, big ideas. And obviously there are things that are there like that you need to consider like race, ethnicity, and all these cases.
L: But I'm just making a generalization here. To make a point.
L: However, I feel like in Hispanic countries, especially in Panama, the idea is not so much to leave your parents. Like this sociality of success is not so much to leave your parents–it is more to get a job so you can help sustain the family.
L: And even if you still live with them, the sign is it's okay to live–to live with your parents. What's not okay is to live off your parents.
L: And so when I say like, oh, I was raised with this idea to go get it to go live the country with the idea of trying to improve, try to get the best education you can.
L: So you can make money to help the family to get out of this sort of like generational–I don’t want to call it poverty–but because I didn't really live in extreme poverty, I lived, I didn't, I wasn't rich–my family was middle-class, but I wasn't.
L: I cannot compare myself to a lot of my friends that were poor.
L: So that's what I mean when I say this: Go, go do it.
L: It's, it's more like go make some money, go get educated because this is going to, this is going to be only good for your family, you know?
L: But there's a lot of things about it that are not open mind, you know? It's a traditional mentality in essence. And that's not open mind: It's just “do this so you can help your family.”
L: You can help your mom.
L: I remember that when I came here my thought and it still is though it hasn't changed as much, but it was more predominant. And everything I did was I'm gonna go to the United States, is I’m going to get a degree, come back to Panama and get a job. And then I'm going to buy my mom everything she wants.
L: I remember that was–that was my thought. I want to buy my mother everything she wants because she does a lot of things that we've always wanted to do and I'm going to take her on trips.
L: We’re going to buy her…and be her awesome son and all that. But that's not necessarily open-mind. That is, I want to stress that out.
L: That is not necessarily to have an open mind because there's a lot of biases. There's a lot of things that come around with it.
L: Like for instance, let me think if I can think of an example of [pause]...
L: I, I think that the idea that education by itself, like getting a degree by itself, will get you out of poverty. It's not necessarily true. You know, there's, there's things that you need to get. You need different skills. You need to know people. You need to make friends with everyone, not just with the people that agree with you.
L: I think with the–with the years and with experience and with meeting all these people, I became more open-minded.
L: And that is something that I can, I can say.
L: But it wasn't necessarily just because I wanted to go get it.
L: I think it was just something that was passed along as a survival strategy from maybe people that have been a lot. I mean, disadvantaged. So does that make sense? They have been in rougher situations than I have and it can, it has been a survival strategy.
L: And then again, that is not necessarily because of an open-mind.
L: That's just because you need to be adaptable.
Joohye (J)
L: My name is Luis Sanchez. I'm a Panamanian student from Panama, Santiago de Veraguas, Panama.
L: I came to the United States for the first time ever. That was 15 years old. I was in high school in Panama and they won a scholarship to–for an Intensive English Program in Northwest Missouri State University, which I stayed for two months.
L: That's pretty much of a bubble when I went over there in the sense that everything was provided, you know, like very like our interaction was…not manipulated. That's a strong word, was controlled or when did we go out? We went out.
L: I was 15 years old. So I guess it's understandable.
L: Then I went back to Panama with a pretty clear sort of impression of what life in an academic environment looked like.
L: For the next years of my life, up until I was 22, I stayed in Panama when finished my finish high school. And I got my undergraduate degree from the University of Panama. And then when I finished that, I was working in a call center and I got this opportunity to come to Emporia State University, in Emporia, Kansas to be a GTA, a graduate teaching assistant for the composition department, for the English department, sorry, in the compensation program.
L: So I decided to go ahead and do that. It was pretty rough. That opportunity was a great opportunity and I am pretty grateful and, you know, like all the things that I experienced or valuable, however, it was very difficult to go through it financially speaking.
L: Emotionally speaking, it was a little bit of a roller coaster, but I was already in that–already, that kinda person in that point in my life in which I was very open to changes.
L: I guess I was raised with this mentality of just take whatever opportunity you can No. Just kidding. But yeah. I was raised with that mentality was like take whatever opportunity you can–carpe diem. Abroad, study abroad. I'll just go for it. That's why I went, but I wasn't really thinking everything that it meant.
L: It meant living on a minimum wage salary because that's what they paid me at that time. In here in Kansas, it was like $7.25 an hour and 20 hours max. So what was making? I was very, very tight budget.
L: But I did that for two years until I graduated The English with an English MA. Ironically, all the classes that I took over there [at Emporia State] were related to Latin America. Well, most of them, not all of them. Of course, you have to take your rhetoric classes during history of English classes and all that.
L: Because up until that point, I thought that I just really wanted to do English literature. I want it. I liked literature, I like reading books. I liked the discipline and I wanted to know more. And English gave me that sort of leeway, that door that I could begin doing that. I said I can do that over there and just getting my degree, but by the end of my master's program and I'm Boys State University, I had all these classes that had to do with Spanish Literature. In a way, I mean, look, look, look. I was looking at them through the lens of this English studies or English literature sort of thing, so to speak.
L: So, you know, I had a very good mentor. Her name was Rachel Espalding at Emporia State shia helped me a lot. She got it in yellow and she gave me a lot of advice on what to do and not to do. And I remember her saying that after I was done with my masters, she was like, “Hey, if you don't know what you wanna do, why don't you stay here and you teach Spanish for a year? And then we'll see what happens after that.”
L: And the idea of teaching Spanish at that point was a little bit like weird for me because I had been studying English over time. And teaching my own language wasn't something that I had like seriously considered or had done before in my life.
L: So I went ahead and thought about it and decided, you know what, I'm gonna do it and I have a lot of momentum, so to speak, in my life right now. And I'm gonna go with it and see where it takes me.
L: So I taught Spanish for a whole year after I [graduated?] with my MA in Emporia State. And then in order to be able to do that, because I was an international student, I enrolled in a class that has something sort of like related to teaching. And that was TESOL, which was teaching is teaching digital English as a second language. The problem was that the TESOL program at ESU as a completely online. As an international student, that's not something that's allowed. You have to take face-to-face classes. One thing one way that we did to go about it was that I was also enrolled in this program for IDT, instructional design and technology. That was face-to-face. I was getting a certificate and IDT taken face-to-face classes on that while I was taking all the online classes for the TESOL program while I was teaching Spanish simultaneously.
L: So I was doing that. I did that for a year.
L: The problem was that just teaching Spanish just wasn't doing the trick for me. I was still missing the literature reviews, reading the novels, analyzing them, or reading nonfiction.
L: And I love doing that.
L: And I was like, I'm a little bit not doing what I wanted to do.
L: So I was like maybe I can start applying for a PhD programs. And this is when again, my mentor told me is like the best way I think I could start it you can do since the market right now for jobs after you graduate is pretty tight is to try to diversify and use that Spanish background that you have. So you can be in the position you want. And she said, I think a masters or a PhD in Spanish literature would really do the trick for you because since you are interested in, in literature is you're just switching the language, but you're still basically going to be doing the same. And you can focus in on those papers that you've written for us in the last years that were in Central America, Central American literature in the Boom. And it's part of, it's part of it all.
L: And I was like, sure, that sounds like a good idea.
L: So I applied okay, use It's very important to department Spanish and Portuguese PhD program that year. And it was a little bit it was a bit weird because I ended up being accepted into their masters program instead of their PhD.
L: So I was upset, but in hindsight, it was it was for the best. It was necessary. That's how we needed to happen. I just I just needed to trust what was going on in that moment.
L: But in the moment I was upset. I remember that was like No, and I was planned blah, blah, blah. But anyway, I entered KU’s department of Spanish and Portuguese masters program in 2019. Oh, actually, sorry. Fall 2018. If I'm not wrong, I could be wrong about that one.
L: Then I started doing my masters there. I really liked it. I think I was in a place where I was doing what I want it. I studied very hard. I made friends there and got to know the professors and it was great.
L: And it was a lot better than, you know, financially than than I was when I was an ESU because the feeling that was the most recurring for me was of this being pinned to the wall. Sort of like a sort of like a like a rag doll or something like that where you are like leaning against the wall and then there's little pins that don't let you move and there's like little things that you can do. And that's how I felt a lot of times when I was at ESU.
L: Not really because the people there, because I met wonderful people there. But it was mostly because of the situation. I was making. I wasn't making enough money because as an international student, I couldn't work outside campus. There were very limited options I had; my parents couldn't send me much money or any money at all because they just don't make them. What do you want to compare two here. Compared to here.
L: And so I was, there were many times in which I seriously considered going back to Panama. And I was, I was lucky and fortunate enough that I met people that were willing to help me and that went outside of their way to help me do that thing, do this thing.
L: So I cannot say that I did that just by myself. I had a lot of people helping me.
L: There were a lot of times in which if somebody hadn't intervened, I wouldn't have been able to do it.
L: So my experience is not like, Oh, I just went and did this thing, everybody else can do it. That's that I feel like such a fake to say that because not–that would be assuming that everyone's going to have my same luck.
L: You need both things: You need your luck and your preparation.
L: Both things to be able to do it. And that is I think the most of your current feeling that I had, at least during my time in Emporia, I came to KU and that decreased a lot, I would say. But I was still feeling pin for different reasons.
L: I think mostly because just here, I feel like this country is a lot different than Panama in terms of health care. Obviously, that is one of the things that worried me the most and one of the reasons for why every time my mom asked me, “Are you planning to stay and get a job over there?” I always answers like, “I don't know if it's” because I don't yeah, it's great and it makes a lot more money than I would probably ever make in Panama.
L: But I don't I'm afraid that one day I will have an accident and then I'll, you know, financially screwed forever because fricking health, health care is just not good enough.
L: One of the things that really worries me is how fragile. The whole thing is. How I'm just basically going on the momentum of things just hopping from one opportunity to the next one. And then the moment that something goes wrong, there's very little contingency that that can happen. I can say that now I have built a little bit more of a pillow for it. If anything ever happens.
L: That's like in the great scheme of things, it's not much.
L: And I can't imagine why, like newer generations of students or people that are just beginning to do this are going through because it's only going to refer.
L: Here. I wasn't part of the story I was telling was that I was at KU. Do my master's. I finished it. I finished my masters in Chapter two years of completing it, and then I applied to do the PhD program here so I can continue working on what I wanted to work.
L: And here's what I am. And my third semester of my PhD program, it's been a little bit over six years. And in the United States, I left San Diego to work in and poorest state.
L: That is more or less made journey the United States has been in a lot of decision-making, having to be super flexible, not letting stress completely overwhelm you because that's not as a survival strategies like just letting stress just numbs your mind and you can't just think clear.
L: And that's something that I had to I had to deal with but, but deal with, but stress was still there nonetheless.
L: I can talk about this very particular time. Just very good example of one time I was super stressed when I was in Emporia. I had to leave my apartment because my roommate and I were having a lot of disagreements and I had to live it and I didn't have enough money for a deposit for a new apartment.
L: And I can only afford an apartment that was under $300 a month. That's as much as they could afford on my paycheck on that considering all the discounts they did and all the fees that I had to pay the university.
L: So for whatever reason. Somebody let me stay in their apartment for like two-three months. But even after that, I was also going trying to say the least, this extra little room there, but for whatever reason, I ended up finding this apartment that was under $300. And it was like a very small studio apartment. And asked what I was going to decide that this is where I'm going to live for the semester.
L: However, I had everything set up until they said that the deposit was twice the amount of rent and you'd have to pay this this and this. And I just simply didn't have that kind of money. It was like $500. And I remember one of my friends said she asked “What's up? What's the matter? What what's happening?” And I said “I'm seriously considering just not finished my masters here and just go back to Panama with the little money I have. Buy a plane ticket, and just go back to Panama tomorrow night. And that's because I cannot afford an apartment.”
L: It's kinda like playing checkmate and that is just playing chess and there's just no more moves, like absolutely no more moves. And then she said, “I'll write you a check, you'll pay me back whenever you have it.” And she let me borrow $500. Now I was like thank you very much. I didn't have any words. I was like, okay, this is, this is one thing that's happening.
L: And I really appreciate it. Appreciate it in unfortunately, that person and I are not really talking anymore other than other things that have nothing to do with it.
L: But I really appreciated her her gesture and she helped me and that's that's a big part of the reason for why I'm still here today. Because I found people in the way that we're willing to help another person.
L: And then that's one example of one time that I just felt like super, super like I don't I don't think this is going to work out and not because it has nothing to do with my will to work.
L: It wasn't because I was being lazy, wasn't because I wasn't being focused enough or it wasn't because I wasn't working hard enough–it was entirely and absolutely because the rules of the game, how everything was set up, there were just no more moves, so it's no more possible options for me to be able to stay in the United States in that, in that fashion.
L: So that's one thing that happened where I felt like this was just not meant for me to happen. I was just lucky that somebody helped and stepped in.
L: And then I lived in that apartment for I think it was a little bit over a year, year-and-a-half.
L: The reason for why I ended up leaving, because the landlord did not respect the rules of my contract. And they tried to kick me out a month before.
L: Yeah.
L: They tried to kick me out amongst a whole month before my apartment under the claim that they said that they didn't have a payment for my rent, which I had receipts and everything.
L: So they proceeded to throw all my stuff away out of the apartment and keep them in this little room, but they threw a lot of it away. And when I protested and I said, “Here's the receipt” and it's like, okay, we were in the wrong and I was like, “Okay, now I want you to pay back for the match rates and those stuff.” And they basically said, we're not going to pay for something old. Something–appear as if it was new, since it was old, they didn't want to pay it at all.
L: And I had I had to go to the Emporia small claims court. I had to talk to a lot of people. It was very stressful, but it was one of those times where I just felt like the world wanted to just mess mess me over, screw me over essentially.
L: After like three months of talking to them and going to small claims court, I got some money back and some replacement.
L: It wasn't really much compared to really the damages, but I didn't know what I was doing.
L: I had never sued anyone because that's basically what I ended up doing. I didn't know how much money to ask or anything.
L: But it was [exhales] it was very stressful and a horrible situation that I don't wish on anybody.
L: Yeah, That is a good example as though when I felt like there's not very many options for me. There's not very many things I can do to just keep moving forward, you know.
L: So yeah.
L: And then luckily after that…After after that happened with my landlord and the awful experience of essentially being wrongfully–it's called wrongful eviction, wrongfully evicted. I lived with my with my girlfriend for a month.
L: And then I will put a month. I think it was a little bit over that until they completely moved over to Lawrence because I started my program at the Department of Spanish and Portuguese.
L: So that's basically two examples that I can give when the times where things it was the darkest hour, I guess, where I honestly didn't know what I was gonna do and then know what I was going to live. Didn't know what the heck was going to happen. If I didn't, I was like, Oh my gosh, if I didn't know these people, there wasn't somebody that I that I can say, “Hey, can I stay over at your–at your house for the night?”
L: What would have happened?
L: You know, and–and I know I'm sure that people would say it's the Lord's or some religious explanation. I myself, I'm not a very religious person.
L: But I can say that it's, it's pretty messed up that you want to excuse, that you would try to excuse a system from its failures by saying like, Oh, this is some, how we're supposed to happen.
L: So I found a lot of people in my life that would tell me, try to tell me that and it would particularly annoyed me to hear that “no, this is not how it's supposed to happen.” This happened because the lack of consideration for for for people that don't make that much money.
L: I don't know…There's been many instances in which I feel like there are institutions, there are situations, at least here in the United States and this part, part of Kansas that literally prey on the poor.
L: They judge one people to be poor and those are the ones that people like the most vulnerable.
L: And like like my fricking landlord that they thought I wasn't going to do anything because I was an international student. As I'm not gonna pay your things new because they were old.
L: That's that's expecting me to just be like, okay, you know, humble down and back down. And I was like No, no, no.
L: So that was my first, That was my first year as an important and I'm just saying the bad things to make some sort of statement.
L: But at the same time, I also met a lot of great people, people that were willing to work at. Again, people that helped me, people that consider that I was in a very vulnerable situation in my life. And that's mostly what I am grateful. I am grateful that I may make awesome connections.
J: And I don't just study them because of what they did for me. But because I was able to learn a lot from them.
L: So yeah.
L: I don't know if there's anything else that you would like me to do.
J: I really appreciate your specific examples. And yes, that's exactly what we're looking for in the way he told her story was absolutely perfect.
J: And also, I'm curious, would you be willing to share some more positive, brighter, specific examples from your life in contrast to the ones you share?
L: Well, as I said, the fact that somebody let me say that when when I needed the most, it was something that I thought was like, I don't think that many people back in Panama would do this for me.
L: But I can tell you one quick, that sort of set set the mood for everything that was to come.
L: The first night that I arrived in Kansas City and MCI on the airport, there was a pandemic. There's a Panamanian teacher, professor at ESU, that it was the one who helped me with everything and set everything up. He was my point of contact and everything right.
L: I was supposed to stay the night with in his sleep on his couch for the night and then he was going to help me find an apartment and a blah blah blah and for whatever reason that didn't happen as planned.
L: He I think he would he got to basically doing things that he got that night, but he was just picking up his phone. And I was very worried. I didn't know what I was going to sleep. I didn't know a single soul in this part [of Kansas].
L: It was three in the morning. It was cold and it was dark. And I didn't recognize. Because it's my first day in the United States after, you know, ever since I was 15, as I said before, that that was very I was very worried.
L: But anyway, so I was about to stay the night at a hotel. That's what it was going to do. I was like, Okay, he's not picking up. It's almost three in the morning. And I need to sleep; I've been traveling all day.
L: And tomorrow. I mean, saying they actually mean in the morning, I need to be somewhere for the orientation. It was like I had to be there at nine in the morning, so I was just going to sleep for a few hours and then pack up my stuff.
L: And I was I was looking for hotels and I was looking for a place. And then somebody came to me, somebody from Emporia from the, I think it was like local church members that would volunteer to help or greet international students. And he was helping me call the hotels or the more like the cheapest possible option.
L: And then I remember he said he said, “I want you to hang up that phone. And just would you mind sleeping in my couch?” And I was like, “Yeah, that would really help me. That would really help me because all I need us to sleep for a few hours, getting my stuff and then go to the introduction.”
L: And then that's why what I did. I slept in his couch and I was very grateful that he did that. And then I spent the rest of the day–the rest of the day. Next morning, I guess, walking around campus with suitcase on my hand, going to the workshops with my suitcases and my hands and trying to get a hold of the professor that was supposed to help me.
L: And until the very end of the day, it was like at 7 P.M. when he finally answered and it was like, Dude, where have you been?
L: I remember I remember that. I remember that his kindness that his name was Karen foresight. His kindness not only set the tone for what was to come, like, how my ears, we're going to be like, yeah, this is gonna be harsh and you're going to need people to help you.
L: It was like you also have to be more flexible and be ready. Be ready that sometimes things have just not going to go the way you think they're gonna go.
L: That was, that was like, uh, you could, you could think of it as like a negative moment, but you can also think of it as a positive in the sense that as a stranger that just helped me out and as the reason for why it's a big part of part of the reasons for why I'm here.
L: Because somebody came and helped me.
L: Another good thing is that I can call, I can, I can mention at the top of my head is the-the professors. The professors that I met at ESU. They were great. They were passionate about what they did. They lamented the fact that the university wasn’t paying me enough. They lamented the fact that I wasn't such a tough situation and they just tried to help me.
L: I don't think that I would have become as passionate and interested in. I feel that I'm doing right now in getting at PhD, if I hadn't met the professors that I met in Emporia and the professors that are made here at KU, they served us as a model.
L: And and I just I don't know. I think that before I came to the United States, I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life or what I wanted it to look like.
L: And I've been able to sort of like mold my thinking. Not just really like who I am, but like my, my thinking how, how do I want to approach life?
L: I like the fact that now I can be like, What do I want my life to look like in five years? Why do I want my life to look like in a few months? Do I want to be in a situation that looks like this?
L: That has been just invaluable. And that is the most positive thing that I have from this journey.
L: It's been this experience that has helped me grow and it has helped me become a different person that I don't think my parents or my sisters or any of my relatives would recognize, you know, I don't think I'm the same person that left the airport at that so much time ago.
L: Yeah.
L: Does that answer the question?
J: Yes, it does.
J: And you did touch on this end. I was wondering if you mentioned having it was important to you that you grew up with with sort of like an open-mind or like that mentality, you know, like let's take these chances. And also you stressed how it was really important to be flexible in a lot of your situations.
J: Is there anything else you'd like to add on for just general advice or wisdom reflecting back on your journey or everything you've learned?
L: Well–I'm not entirely sure that I would call that open mind. I mean, yeah, it sounds like it and I can see why it is, but it's more like…
L: Okay, okay, how about this?
L: It is very common, I think, the idea that the idea here in the United States that if you live with your parents, that turns–tends to not have a very positive connotation. It tends to be more like, oh, you're a loser type of thing, right?
L: And that's usually because your parents or parents here, generationally speaking, they tend to have a lot more money than their children, right? That's fair.
L: Not all the cases. This a generalization obviously. I'm just talking in big, big ideas. And obviously there are things that are there like that you need to consider like race, ethnicity, and all these cases.
L: But I'm just making a generalization here. To make a point.
L: However, I feel like in Hispanic countries, especially in Panama, the idea is not so much to leave your parents. Like this sociality of success is not so much to leave your parents–it is more to get a job so you can help sustain the family.
L: And even if you still live with them, the sign is it's okay to live–to live with your parents. What's not okay is to live off your parents.
L: And so when I say like, oh, I was raised with this idea to go get it to go live the country with the idea of trying to improve, try to get the best education you can.
L: So you can make money to help the family to get out of this sort of like generational–I don’t want to call it poverty–but because I didn't really live in extreme poverty, I lived, I didn't, I wasn't rich–my family was middle-class, but I wasn't.
L: I cannot compare myself to a lot of my friends that were poor.
L: So that's what I mean when I say this: Go, go do it.
L: It's, it's more like go make some money, go get educated because this is going to, this is going to be only good for your family, you know?
L: But there's a lot of things about it that are not open mind, you know? It's a traditional mentality in essence. And that's not open mind: It's just “do this so you can help your family.”
L: You can help your mom.
L: I remember that when I came here my thought and it still is though it hasn't changed as much, but it was more predominant. And everything I did was I'm gonna go to the United States, is I’m going to get a degree, come back to Panama and get a job. And then I'm going to buy my mom everything she wants.
L: I remember that was–that was my thought. I want to buy my mother everything she wants because she does a lot of things that we've always wanted to do and I'm going to take her on trips.
L: We’re going to buy her…and be her awesome son and all that. But that's not necessarily open-mind. That is, I want to stress that out.
L: That is not necessarily to have an open mind because there's a lot of biases. There's a lot of things that come around with it.
L: Like for instance, let me think if I can think of an example of [pause]...
L: I, I think that the idea that education by itself, like getting a degree by itself, will get you out of poverty. It's not necessarily true. You know, there's, there's things that you need to get. You need different skills. You need to know people. You need to make friends with everyone, not just with the people that agree with you.
L: I think with the–with the years and with experience and with meeting all these people, I became more open-minded.
L: And that is something that I can, I can say.
L: But it wasn't necessarily just because I wanted to go get it.
L: I think it was just something that was passed along as a survival strategy from maybe people that have been a lot. I mean, disadvantaged. So does that make sense? They have been in rougher situations than I have and it can, it has been a survival strategy.
L: And then again, that is not necessarily because of an open-mind.
L: That's just because you need to be adaptable.
Interviewer
Joohye Oh
Interviewee
Luis
Format
Video
City (Region, State) and Country of Origin
Santiago de Veraguas, Panama
Current City of Residence
Lawrence, Kansas