1 10 49 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Video Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Aron Muci City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Nicaragua Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Wichita, Kansas Intermediate point in journey (1) City/State or Country to which interviewee (or parents/grandparents) traveled before coming to current point of residence Los Angeles, California Transcript Abel (A): Aron (M): A: When I think of stories that sort of attached myself to my identity, I think a lot of our celebrations, I think one of the things that I like about my parents is that they always, even though we live in the United States, were born here, and you know they immigrated here, I think that they still taught us and embrace their culture from Nicaragua. A: And they taught us a lot about the cultural beliefs and celebrations and the way that a lot of people from Nicaragua, the food, the music, was always something that they shared with us. And I think that always helped us, at least for me, at least identify with that. A: And I've always had a huge pride in that. I know that for, especially a lot of people in the United States, it's very typical to when you assume you look at a person that looks hispanic or whatever, a lot of people assume that they're from Mexico because a large portion of them are usually Mexican. A: And I remember always being a little kid and when people would say that, I would always correct them and say “No, I'm Nicaragua and my parents are from Nicaragua. A: And that was always instinctual to me because I wanted to ensure that no different, my culture is different from what people will assume it to be. I think I've always had that identity and I think that it comes from my parents, you know, through the, we call it the purisima, which is a very important celebration in December. A: It stretches from the end of November to December 7th. I think that for Nicaragua it's a celebration of the Virgin Mary. And for Nicaragua, the Virgin Mary of Nicaragua is the Virgin of the Immaculate Conception. And so it's a very huge celebration. A: And so every day along that week, seven to nine days span. Every night, we have certain prayers and songs that we did. And some of my earliest memories are always going to be me and my sisters and my parents all doing this every day. Singing the songs, being the prayer, being together and being collected. A: It so happens that my birthday falls on what they refer to as the Gritería, which is kind of when the whole country as a whole goes out and celebrates it together so people can have stalls and a lot of people will have their own kind of altars and stuff dedicated to the Virgin Mary. And people can come along, they go out, they saying they're singing all the songs that were specially created for celebration and they go out. There's, It's basically like a huge party in the streets. A: And the way my parents always describe it as just a beautiful moment where everybody is connected and together. I think for me, having my birthday fall on a very special day, my mom always said that it's one of the greatest gifts. And I think for me that's always sort of attached myself to my culture. And I think that that's a huge thing for me when I think of, you know, part of my identity in that sense, as a Nicaraguan. A: And I think that, I think about that a lot in terms of other ways of how I identify, I think that as a person in the Midwest, they think that, you know, I think benefiting from living in Wichita, which is one of the most populated cities in terms of the Latino population, I think that that has certainly helped because you certainly see a lot more than I know, like a lot of other places in Kansas. I know a lot of other people who don't see that many [Latinos]. And so you're just surrounded with a lot more traditional white Caucasian people. A: But I was lucky enough to see a lot more of those people. And I think that it definitely helps because you feel like you're not as alone or isolated. And so I think that that helps a lot. As a first generation immigrant, I guess I didn't really realize the weight of that… really until a lot later. A: So when I got older and I really started to see, like, the significance, I think for me, you know, talking with my parents, I realize a lot of the things as I'm getting older, the things that they did when I, when I, when they were my age. And seeing the parallels of how our lives are very different. And how when they were in high school growing up, stories of them trying to go to college and that stuff, how they studied. All those different things are stories that they shared with us as motivation and, um, you know, trying to inspire us to achieve high aspirations. A: And I think for me that was always something that was very important. I think I always knew that being a part of–like as the Latinx community, I think there is a lot of expectation because of the way there's a lot of racial tension, especially with immigrants in the United States. I think there's always, for some reason the pressure to impress a lot of the times. A: You have to impress in order to somehow get acceptance or to somehow show, Oh, just because I'm Latino. Just as worthy or are just as capable as, you know. Another person. I think that that's something that a lot of minorities face is this idea of, oh, you have to be the smartest person in the room or you have to have a huge accomplishment so that as, you know, as a race together, as an enthicity, we are able to show people or prove like no, we're capable people were hardworking, are smart where dedicated, passionate, creative. Hey, I think that that holds a lot of pressure. Certainly. And definitely now, some argue that it shouldn't have to be that way. A: But there's certainly that feeling every now and then, now and again. But I think going into college for me, I think a lot [about] being a McNair Scholar and for me being a first-generation college student. And embracing part of my identity, seeing that my parents were able to come here and…an enormous sacrifice at an age where they were still extremely young. A: I think about it all the time. I mean, at my age, you know, they were coming here. And I think about that, what could, I could imagine trying to move to a completely different country with a language that I don't even know at my age sounds like an intimidating task. A: And so for me, being a McNair Scholar and having an opportunity to attain your PhD, a very high degree, a high honor. Something that very, very, very little Latinx and African Americans have really been deprived of just because of how much of just education and access have been given to a lot of white Americans over the past several decades. A: And so just being part of a very exclusive group always is a huge honor of mine. And I think for a lot of reasons, I always think about that—of being a part of the Latinx community is a huge honor. A: And I know that even though I have a lot of privileges, being born here, a citizen, my entire family are citizens, I think that there's still a lot of personal struggles. A lot of people who aren't as lucky as I was and a lot of other people. I think about them a lot. A: I think about them because I still identify with the culture. I think when my parents and I, we were able to go to Nicaragua because of that benefit. Something that a lot of people can't do, were able to go to Nicaragua and visit my cousins and my aunts and uncles. A: And I think that experience, even at a young age is very interesting. I remember going–because obviously we've gone before—and we first went when I was about eight years old and I remember bits and pieces about that, but I wasn't old enough to really encapsulate a lot of the differences of living here [in America] and there [Nicaragua]. A: We were able to go back when I was a lot older, around 14, 15 years old. And I think that time when I'm, when I really started to see kind of how huge of a world of difference it is. And how much of a just cultural shifts it is from going to places like Nicaragua to the United States. And just seeing the different ways of life of how it made me see the incredible amount of privilege and fortune–so many things that I think a lot of people take for granted. A: It definitely put a lot of things in my mind in perspective. The amount of benefits that I've been able to receive and a large part because of my parents again, taking that sacrifice and having the courage to do that. And so there's a lot of that that comes. And that's why I think there's also a huge motivator for me to not squander that type of opportunity and to take advantage of being able to be here. A: And so I think a lot of that is definitely attached to my identity. I think a lot now–I have my own personal feelings about, you know, growing up. I think what—I think of a lot, especially now as I'm getting older, I think about how when I was a little kid before I started school, my mom used to say, “Oh, you spoke a lot more Spanish.” A: When you were younger, obviously, tucked into my mom all the time. I was able to speak a lot more Spanish. But once I got into school, I mean, I was just so surrounded by speaking English that it just became more primary to me. A: And I think the sad part that I feel is that I don't ever really remember a time being more confident in speaking Spanish than I did in English. And that's always been in conflicting feeling in a lot of ways. Because I remember going to school and being in ESOL. And I think that as a program, the intentions of the program are good. I think it is supposed to help a lot of immigrant children–their parents don't speak English. So the assumption is, oh, well, this should help them not fall too far behind and they can help them speak, learn, read, write in English. A: While I definitely see it from that perspective, I also see it from a way where I felt like, you know, in a way sort of feeling like, oh, it's like Spanish is something that I have to put aside. And instead I have to focus on proving that I can speak English and have that as a primary language. A: I remember very early on because I–for first, second, third grade, I was speaking English almost basically fluently. Mostly because like I said before, I had two older sisters and so we always spoke English to each other because they've been in school for a lot longer, so now they're just used to it with their friends. A: And so I was– always remember having good English skills. But I was still in the program for a large portion of the first few years. I had to take the ESOL tests–every at the end of the year. I remember that in order for me to technically get out because I remember in sixth grade, they had put me in ESOL and I remember my mom being very upset about that because she was like, You don't need that. Like, I don't understand why they would put you there. And I remember we had to go downtown and we had to fill out this form to essentially get them to not put me in there. A: And I have this very vivid memory of being there at the desk with the woman that signed the paper. And I remember she said, you know, obviously this is a big decision, like you're going to have to work really hard to make sure that you don't need it. Which at the time I laughed about it because I was like, yeah, but I'd always stuck with me because I don't know–I think that idea of like, well, I obviously don't need the program and so I think that idea of like, well, you should work harder as if I didn't already have enough skill or control to clearly prove that I didn't need it. A: But even then, like almost the whole sixth grade year, I was still in the ESOL program. I was still doing and taking that class until towards the end when I guess somebody was at the school was like, oh hey, we just realized that this student shouldn’t be in here and then I had to switch to the regular language arts class. A: But even during my seventh grade year, I had seventh grade language arts, but I also had a supplemental English course. And I remember just being in that class and just always like it was basically a free period because I had no struggle doing any assignments. And I remember the teacher being there and she would say, you know, I remember she told me one time she was like, “I have no idea why you're here. Like you do not struggle at all. Like, I honestly have no idea why they put you in this class.” A: And I was like, yeah, I don't know. So I think for me. And even then after that obviously didn't have any supplemental classes. But in high school I still like to take the ESOL exam because ESOL exam, in order for you to completely clear it, you have to have a perfect score or a near perfect score across the different categories, not once but two years in a row. So it doesn't matter if you have two perfect scores. If they're not consecutive, doesn't count you stuff to retake the test at the end of the year. A: I was able to do it, I think by my sophomore year in high school because I remember like the extra period of time I didn't leave class, I had to go into this room and take this test for a bunch of other people. And what I thought was really funny is like I remember there's a speaking part where they play like a cassette tape or whatever and they say something and you're supposed to repeat it. A: And I remember something that was recorded that even in the way that they said it in English was wrong, it was incorrect. And I remember being like, well, I think it's ironic that I'm taking this test to improve my English when even the recording itself isn't proper. A: And so there's a lot of feelings in that. And I think that growing up now, I feel like having this. I don't want to call it subliminal message, but the message of–I had to prove time and time again that I could speak English. And English was the most important thing that I had to know in order to succeed. A: So part of that, I think also makes me feel bad because I know that as a result, my Spanish isn't as good as a lot of other people because I very rarely use it. I only really use it to communicate with my parents. And if I ever go to Nicaragua or I'm with my cousins, then obviously I have to use it. A: And I think help working has helped a lot. I think working, communicating with more people and speak Spanish has certainly helped me be more confident because I used to be very insecure about it. I used to not want to speak Spanish to people because I was always self-conscious about it. A: Because I knew that if I made a mistake or I said something grammatically incorrect, that would be made fun of or because there's a huge thing in the Latinx community, especially from older people to be able to speak Spanish. Because that is part of our culture, that is part of what distinguishes us. And so for as a Latinx person to not be able to speak Spanish, it feels like part of you is something wrong. A: And so over time I've been able to be more confident. There are certainly things that I would like to improve because I would like, you know, whenever I have children, I'm able to teach them how to speak Spanish because I do want them to have that skill because I do think that it's incredibly valuable, not just being able to communicate with people who speak Spanish, but it is a cultural thing. A: It is something that is part of, you know, their heritage. And I think that it would be a shame to me to feel like not being able to share that with them. And so I've always certainly had those feelings, I guess, about my English and Spanish and I think that as an identity, I think that those are things that I've always have had sort of lingering around. A: But as I get older, I think that there's certainly an ability to improve on those things. I'm feeling more satisfied and I think recognizing that those things and saying, “okay, these are things that I went through and hopefully I've learned a lot from them and being able to share that experience. And I know how that feels. A: And what I feel very happy about is, for example, my nephew. I feel like something I always thought was really, really cool was whenever he spoke at a very, very young age, he understood the difference [between] speaking English or Spanish. And he would speak English to me, to his mom, to his aunt, like he knew who to speak English to. A: But when it came to my parents or to his dad, he would speak Spanish. You would know that oh, they understand better when I say it this way as opposed to this way. And it always impressed me that even at a very young age he was able to sort of put those things together. A: And I hope that, you know, every once in a while, I'll ask him, “How do you say this in Spanish?” So that he will say it and a lot of the time he will get it right or he'll make a couple mistakes, and me and my mom will try and correct him. And I think that it's important to see that. A: And so I, I guess in a way I hope that him growing up, he doesn't grow up feeling the way I feel where it's like not having that side of your culture and your heritage, but being able to embrace in how both a part of your life. A: So I think overall, I guess those are the main things that are part of my identity and culture. And I think that is a huge part of it. A: And I certainly also don't want to say that a person who is Latinx that doesn't speak Spanish at all is any less or any less part of the culture because a lot of the time sometimes you live in a family through adoption or something like that and you just don't have access. A: There are a lot of people from different cultures that, you know, don't know Korean or Vietnamese or whatever language their original family would normally speak. They just don't. And so there is a little bit of stigma there that I think that there's something that should be a little more talked about for sure. A: So I don't want to say necessarily that if a person doesn't, that makes them bad or, or, or anything like that, I just think from my feelings that's something that I've always had to grapple with myself. A: And so I think for me that I just would hope that if you have an opportunity to do that, you have the choice to. A: I think overall, I guess those are kind of bits and pieces of stories and different things that I kind of have, that have formed the way that I sort of identify, I guess, from that side. Aron Muci (M): Wonderful, thanks so much for sharing all that information, Abel. I have one question for you and then we'll wrap up. M: No pressure in this question. So if you don't have anything to say, it's no big deal. We can move on. M: I'm curious to know if you've learned anything about your cell with respect to your identity or with respect to anything else that you've discussed here today, in moving to Hays, Kansas? If that transition from away from Wichita to a smaller city in Kansas has enabled you to see anything or change your perspective in any way? Or if it's been confirming or in some way just kinda reassuring to show you how close and how connected things are. But you can, if you have anything to share about your transitions at Hays, Kansas from Wichita, that would be kind of interesting. A: Uh-huh. Yeah. I think I think this past year as a whole. I don't know how much of it is obviously being in a pandemic. And so you're a lot in your house a lot more than you probably would be, but it certainly has put a lot of people in a very introspective mood of seeing themselves and spending a lot more time in here. A: So if you sort of start to think, oh, what am I doing with my life? How are things going? A: And I think that for me being on my own for the first time, developing, maturing. I've taken a lot of, you know, I've enjoyed the process because it's helped me sort of what you've said–learn a lot more about myself. A: And there are certainly things that I've started to really learn about myself and really see in a broader way, both in a lot of different ways. And I think that that has certainly been a lot. A: I mean, moving to a smaller town, there's a huge difference in culture and people that you're seeing interacting. So before, I mean, living at Wichita: it's social. It's the most populated city in Kansas. You are seeing so many people, different people from different backgrounds. And that is really huge. A: And living in a smaller town like Hays, where the majority of the population is white, obviously you're seeing a lot less diversity. Being obviously in college and college town. You definitely see a little bit more because it's a university and so it's a little bit more open in that way. A: But I mean, if you are just walking around all of the stores, you're going to see a lot more, a lot less diversity. And I think that that is a little bit of a difference in that sense. A: And I've spoken to people that are like, yeah, when I was younger, I didn't have that many [Latino] people. I was the only [Latino] person. I was the only Mexican or something like that. A: And for me, I used to be made fun of or I was picked on or I was isolated and so I felt different. And so learning a lot more of that and seeing that sort of difference of city to a small city, it certainly has seen a lot of stuff. A: And being in [the McNair’s Scholar] program where, I mean, there were about four of us that were Latino. And I felt really excited about that. But I also realized in our program that there wasn't a single black student there. A: And I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but it was something that was interesting to me. And it was definitely something that–it was curious. And so there were definitely a lot of interesting things. A: We were able to have diversity in psychology class and we talked a lot about racial issues and LGBT Q class. And it was such an interesting open class where we were able to really talk about how we were feeling about stuff and have this open conversation. A: Especially in the city [Lawrence, Kansas] and the [University of Kansas] campus there are a lot of minorities that have faced a lot of racism and just blatant discrimination. A: And it's sad to hear, really sad to hear a lot of what people have gone through. And I fortunately haven't really experienced that myself. But it's definitely saddening to see that in a lot of ways. A: But a lot of people certainly worked through and worked really hard to make sure that that doesn't keep them down because, I mean, you have to keep working and moving forward. A: So in that sense, that makes it definitely puts things in perspective that there's a lot of, I guess, privilege in being, like I said before being surrounded with more diversity. And that's why there's a huge call for it, because it's important to freely associate yourself with people from different backgrounds to really understand them and to really see their perspective and their views and how their differences. A: And then not to see it as a threat or as being afraid [of diversity[. But seeing, oh, this person is very different than a lot of people have a lot of stereotypes because of the media or whatever. A: I think we're seeing real people in really talking to them and really understanding them. A lot of the time helps. But I think that that's something that I certainly have seen moving out here [Hays, Kansas]. A: And I think overall, the introspective, there are certain things that I've certainly have learned and seen that I think moving forward will certainly help me develop more and become more confident in myself and who I am and all of that I think is a huge benefit for sure. M: I have one other question, and this is in relation to your Twitter. And just trying to think about how often it is that you post what I'll just describe as “political post” or in one way that is dealing with politics and current events and politics of today. M: I'm just curious if you can speak a little bit to why it's been important for you to work on expressing your political voice. And what that's…and If you've ever learned anything about yourself in that way. A: Yeah. It's certainly something that, um, has become more a part of being–I think I've always had feelings and ideas even at a very young age. I remember even if freshmen, sophomore year with a lot of different issues coming up, I think that that is very important. A: And I think that I had a lot of certain political mindset. I think that I've always been somebody who values conversation, who values hearing other people's perspectives. A: Even if I don't agree with them. I find it because, I mean, I'm a person who is very inquisitive and wants to understand people. A: So understanding people's perspectives a lot of the time helps me see, okay, so I think of it this way. They think of it that way and it certainly helps develop that. A: For me, as I get older, especially with how things have been the past few years, I think that there's a huge push, especially for the younger generation, to have a more open mindset to a lot of different things. A: And I was raised–I've always said this–I was raised to respect people and I was raised to–I was never raised to hate on anybody. A: I remember meeting people from all different walks of life, whether they had different sexuality, different races, different whatever and I never had a harsh judgment of people. A: I always have this very early memory of being in sixth grade in our science class. And that was when the pregnant man, who was big in the news. And I remember sitting at a table and we're all talking about earlier. That's crazy. A: Because at the time, I mean, you didn't understand like, why that was I think I remember my teacher saying like, Oh, it's because he was a woman before, but now as a man, but he was pregnant before. And so that's sort of how it happened. A: And I remember when that [thought became] processed I was like, Oh, that's interesting. I didn't really think of it in a broader sense or anything that was I didn't think of it necessarily as abnormal. I was just like, Wow, that's really interesting. A: I've always had that ideal and I've always been somebody who, you know, I'm a huge person that wants to get along with a lot of peoples. So the last thing I wanna do is ever make somebody feel uncomfortable or, you know, in that way. A: So I've always been careful about what I say, how I say things. A: Especially now with how people use slurs and stuff like that. I've always been somebody who when somebody says, “Oh, you shouldn't say that because that hurts or offends somebody.” A: I was very receptive to that extremely early. If I heard somebody say, Well, yeah, I know that sucks. Don't say that because it may offend this person or this group or offend me. And I wouldn't say it again because I was like, oh no, like I'm not going to ever make somebody feel bad or I'm never ever going to make somebody feel– offend somebody. A: So I think that that's something that has certainly grown to be more tolerant of other people to being receptive. A: And so I think using a political voice is important a lot of the time, especially as a minority. Because a lot of the culture of the US is built on the identity of white America. And I think that trying to cross those bridges and actually make it the melting pot that it claims to be, uou have to be able to engage in these conversations. A: And a lot of the time, you have political stuff where, you know, because a lot of people aren't politically active through privilege, I think is a huge difference. A: So for example, like I said before, I have a huge privilege being somebody who was born here; I'm a citizen; all of my immediate family are citizens. So looking at an issue like immigration, immigration doesn't really affect us directly because we don't have to worry about deportations. We don't have to worry about does this law change anything here or there. It doesn't really do anything for us. A: But again, that's part of the thing where I have– my best friend does get impacted by that. Other people that I know definitely get impacted by that. And so being able to speak to them, understanding, I sit on a position of privilege that I have the not necessarily the responsibility, but more so like I feel like, you know, almost I don't want to say an obligation because that would insinuate that you if you don't do it, it's bad. But I do feel like an obligation that I have to do it because there are a lot of other people that would like to but can. A: And that's why I've put a lot of attention to learning about different things, learning about different issues about or know about an issue. I want to learn more about it. I want to be well-informed. I want to be understanding and explain this because a lot of people don't take that time to really learn about the complexities of stuff. A: And I find a lot of the social media stuff, especially with the past four years. I mean, with the president [Trump] that we had, I felt like I was almost always having to say, here's why this is wrong or here's why what is happening here is an issue. A: Because it's easy to just read a headline and take it for face value. But not understand exactly why. A: In the grander scheme of things, it doesn't make sense. And I felt like I wanted to express that to some capacity. A: Obviously on social media, it often feels like you're yelling or whatever, but I'm always open to those conversations. A: I feel like now with how much of a divide there is…I have a friend of mine who knows how political I am, and we both agree on a lot of issues. He's like, how do you feel? A: Because a lot of the conversation now is how different are people because of the divide of Democrat, Republican, liberal, conservative, whatever they say. Oh, we're more split than we've ever been. A: Part of me, because he asked, Do you feel like things have actually felt different?, I feel like in some ways there is because I remember even in 2016 before Trump was elected, I think that I remember having a lot of conversations with Republicans. What is your stance on this or that? And really gauging having a conversation, having a debate, not an argument, but just understanding what their position is. A: I feel like over time that has shifted from if you're different from me, like we can't have a conversation because I have to try to convince you that I'm right and you're wrong. And not that one side isn't wrong. A: Because I think that there are a lot of issues nowadays that have become political issues for no reason. I do think that there are some issues where you're just like, I don't understand why you believe this way. A: But I would still like a conversation because I want to understand where you're coming from. Why do you believe it or see it this way, as opposed to why a lot of other people think of it this way. A: But I feel like those conversations are harder to have because it's more sensationalized, it's more immediate anger. A: And I've had people who maybe a few years ago I would have been okay with having a conversation with but now are just so entrenched—because everybody is in their own echo chambers–and so you're not able to have a conversation because people don't really see that idea of, let's understand each other and try and see what's going on here. And I feel like that's not really happening. A: But I don't know. I don't know what the future is. I feel like obviously there is a divide and I don't know how that will get rectified, but I do think that I'm a little bit more, I guess calmer. Obviously, past this election, but I haven't been posting as much as I used to. A: But there is still a lot of–there's still a large push. A: I feel like with their younger generation, with Millennials and Gen Z, I feel like we see a lot of injustice everywhere and legitimate injustice everywhere. And I think that we growing up want to be part of an inclusive, tolerant society–a true, United States of America that isn't divided. A: I feel like part of that is understanding and being there. A: When you see injustice regardless of whether it is in your community,and saying, “Hey, this is wrong, this needs to be fixed or this can't continue.” A: I think that that's a huge part of it because, you know, being a minority, you see that a lot, you see a lot of injustices and discrimination and racism and all this other stuff. And you just want to hopefully live in a society that isn't that. A: So I feel like that's part of another reason I guess, that explains kind of thought process of being vocal about it and sharing that and saying, “this is wrong and we need to understand, respect people and understand like, you know, if it's not your life and it's not hurting you, that it shouldn't really make you upset. And it shouldn't have this reaction of immediate anger, hate, or fear, whatever it is.” A: But embracing people and just letting people live freely. And I think that that's kind of what I do a lot, at least on social media, is trying to invoke that and speak more freely about those type of things. M: Okay. Wonderful. Thanks so much. Abel. I don't have any other questions for you or anything like that. So we have gone for about an hour here. M: Do you have any questions for me about how this project will be used or anything like that? A: No, I don't think so. M: I think I'll get back in touch with you if we want to follow more with anything else in particular, as I mentioned, it would be really great if you could share with us some social media posts, if you have anything that you'd like to share as an example of an expression of your identity in one way or another that would be really helpful for our project. But otherwise, I just want to say thank you and don't hesitate to reach out if your mind changes on anything related to this project. Like I say, if you would choose to be anonymous or if you would choose to withdraw your information from being used in the project, you can always do that at any time. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Abel Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Nicaragua to Wichita, Kansas. Description An account of the resource Abel lives in Wichita, KS and is the son of two Nicaraguan parents. He was a McNair Scholar during his time at the University of Kansas: he has also traveled to Nicaragua. He appreciates how his parents shared Nicaraguan food, and celebrations. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Wichita, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_fwelbupx" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_fwelbupx/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Abel Trimmed"></iframe> Community Education Identity Language Nicaragua Wichita Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Adina Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Audio City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Mexico Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Hoxie, Kansas Transcript Adina (A): Marta (M) A: We were actually from Scott city, which is about an hour-and-a-half from where we live now. And my parents chose to go there because like all my mom's side of the family was there. A: But then my dad got a job at the feedlot in Hoxie, Kansas. And so then we moved over there and it was–I didn't I guess I didn't really know much about like first grade. A: Then that's when my parents, like my brothers just started talking to me–telling me to watch what I say in school. And so it was kinda like we were, like, hiding. A: So anytime my friends or anything would ask me if we were like–as a kid, it's not as much of a big deal now, but as a kid, they'd be like, “Where are you going on vacation?” And I wouldn't say anything because we couldn't get on a plane because to get on a plane and my parents would need their IDs or passports. A: And being undocumented, they didn't have any of those things. A: I think the biggest struggle was getting older and into high school like it and trying to get a driver's license or farmers permit, I need it–I would meet my parents to show their license to the courthouse so they could sign for me. A: But they didn't have any of that because they were undocumented, so I would just have to wait around and like my friends and stuff would ask me, like, “Why didn't I have a ride?” and do that and I would just have to make up the story because I couldn't tell him that my parents were undocumented. A: Applying for college–that was probably the most stressful part because I think on almost every form they would ask for my parents’ social security number. A: And with the FAFSA, I never knew what to put her because obviously you can't lie on those things. But at the same time it was like, “Do I have to I have to say it?” “But what are the risks of saying this? Like what's going to happen to my parents if I tell you this. A: So it was just constant fear and you were just never comfortable because you didn't know when someone who's going to find out or when ICE was just going to come and [then] my parents would be gone. A: It was the same for my brother to my oldest brother because he is also undocumented as well. But the rest of myself and the rest of my siblings are documented. So it's definitely not as hard as it is for other undocumented children that came up here with their parents. A: So it has been a little easier for us, but getting a kid being a minor, getting stuff originally, like necessarily get by without having somebody sign so that I could get a license or ID as well. A: So we would like–I would try to have my brother sign for me…for the longest time, they wouldn't allow that because he wasn't technically my legal guardian. But I don't know what happened. [The DMV] did not let me get a license until I was 18; until I did not need my parents to sign or until he didn't need that stuff for my parents. A: But yeah, I guess I always felt I couldn't–my friends didn't really know me because I couldn't. I felt like I was lying to them. And I do not like to lie, but I always had to make up a story or an excuse or pretend like I had this because I couldn't say what the real circumstances were. A: So I got to take driver's ed[ucation class] and stuff with all my friends, but I couldn't get my permit or anything with it. A: So I went through high school pretending like I didn't have it. And same with passports or stuff. I couldn't travel and I would have to miss out on some school trips and stuff because I didn't have an ID card because I couldn't get mine without my parents’ stuff. A: It was just a lot. A: It's not necessarily as hard now that I'm technically an adult. I'm like, Sure I can do stuff by myself and I don't need my parents’ documents or like my parents’ social security number or their IDs. A: But as a kid, it was hard with school and especially in the small area that we live in. It's just very, very conservative there. So I never knew even if they werelike my close friends, I never do. Like how they would feel about something like that. M: Remind me, where did you primarily grow up? A: In Hoxie, Kansas. M: Where is that, roughly? A: Ummm. On I-70, you go all the way west. It’s about 4 and a half hours from here. You know, we're Hays, Kansas, is at? It's an hour and 30 [minutes] from there. M: Okay. Can you tell me where your parents were from originally? A: Yeah. My mom was from Sala Bosa but most of her family is from Chihuahua, so they're all around that area. And then my dad was from Aguas Calientes. M: And when did they come over here? Must have been more than 18 years ago since you were born here? A: Yeah. I think my dad–my dad came up [to the United States] when he was really I think about 15 because he had some uncles up here and he wanted to work. So he came up extremely young. A: And then my mom, actually, she probably was around her early twenties, mid-twenties because she had my oldest brother in Mexico and then her, her sister and my brother crossed. A: So my brother experienced like going at a very young age. M: Wow. So your parents were having a long distance relationship? A: No. My parents met here [in the U.S.]. M: And so did your brother experience dangerous crossing when he was little? A: When we would like, talk to him about it he said the hardest part was the heat because they didn't and he was a kid. So obviously it was a lot like harder on him than it was for my mom and aunt because they did not have any water… A: There was this one instance where he like he dropped his sippy cup as they were like running away because they were like doing their patrols. I don't know if that's what it's called. So my aunt had to run back and grab it because he had started crying and they like almost got caught. It was like a whole… M: Oh my God. Wow. How old was? A: I think he's I think my mom said like six. M: Wow, that's incredible to think about. A: Yeah. M: So once you got here [Lawrence, Kansas], then how is it different? Or I mean, I think you had said something about you feeling different now that you're here? A: Yeah. Here there's just more. It's a lot bigger. So there's a lot more like diversity and people are just more welcoming and helpful. Like I found a lot more people that have experienced or have friends in that same situation. A: And if I go back home, that's like it's like unheard of it. It's so we're just like we're like completely different people when we're back home. Because the only people that we ever talk about any of this to is our own family that lives there [in Hoxie]. M: So is there not a Hispanic community there in Hoxie? A: Not much. Most of it is just family or their close family friends. It's a predominantly white community. M: Oh, okay. Great. Thank you so much for sharing that story. It's really incredible. It relates to stuff that I've been teaching in my other classes just like completely perfectly. But honestly, I mean, I've been doing this stuff for awhile and I–it never occurred to me that even if you were documented, it might be hard to get a license. A: Yeah. M: You're a citizen. It might be hard to get a license if your parents were not documented. That had not occurred to me. A: So that's a really yeah. It was like I just remember thinking like this is the most stressful they ever. I don't know and now my sister is going through the same thing. M: So do you have any advice for your sister? A: I would just tell her like you really just have to wait until you hit that 17, 18 [year-old] mark. Honestly, there's not much to do until you hit that point. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Adina Subject The topic of the resource An oral history from Mexico to Hoxie, Kansas. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Mexico Description An account of the resource Adina is from Hoxie, Kansas. Her mother is from Chihuahua, Mexico and her father is from Aguascalientes, Mexico. Her parents migrated to the U.S with limited resources. In this interview, she recounts challenges she faced when applying for college and the “constant fear and uncertainty” in her life. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_73eejpwi" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_73eejpwi/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Adina Trimmed"></iframe> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1990s Community Crossing the Border Hoxie Mexico https://comingtotheheartland.org/files/original/a80289b74a62a444ef8814961d1b9348.PNG dcbefce5ad613cfc1b9e45a91d86bbfd https://comingtotheheartland.org/files/original/7d385b92983cf80f8545b25ee018a666.PNG 6a1503b70bc62c30d17048a66d7aeec8 https://comingtotheheartland.org/files/original/3b48dfd9646d41319e16b0e06222d8b6.PNG 2c149f5691818900728950719970093e Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Language of Interview Spanish Format Video, audio only, text only Video Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Yuvia Serna City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Uruguay and Paraguay Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Lawrence, Kansas Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Agustina Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Paraguay and Uruguay to Lawrence, Kansas. Description An account of the resource Agustina is a student at the University of Kansas. She is from Paraguay but has also lived in Nicaragua and Uruguay. Agustina arrived in Kansas to further her education at the University of Kansas. She talks about the importance of education, what it is like to be Latina, as well as the cultural differences she experiences. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <br /><iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_uo81lc6y" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_uo81lc6y/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Agustina Trimmed"></iframe> Community Education Identity Lawrence Paraguay Uruguay Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Video Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Radhia Abdirahman City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Somalia Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Minnesota Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Ahmed (A) Radhia (R) A: Somalis don't go to libraries and they don't read about these things. So they, yeah, they were suits now in America and bands and all of that. And women wear nice clothes even though they're all covered up and know what that means. A: But they [Somalis] don't want to go to a library you don't see Somalis in libraries and places like that. So how would they know anything, even in their own society? A: In your community if you just asked a few people and asked them, do you know by name, by the name of Somali person, by the name of an adult, Abdullah Azzam. And my bet would be that nine out of ten would say, What's that? This is the founding president of the Republic. A: Every kid, American kid knows George Washington. Right? This [is recent history. This is, this is in my lifetime, mister Eastern history. A: So leadership is one of the critical reasons why the Somali society has failed. Leadership allows man would show you the difference in terms of the way he handled. He was the founding president for seven years. A: And I have this book, you should read this book. It's called “Take that Note” It's called Africa's first Democrats. Africa's first Democrats at some of the new book, it's barely three years old, four years old. You should really thank you for yeah, that sounds good. Order it off of Amazon. R: Do you have any articles that you'd recommend? A: I mean, I wrote a lot. So if you just Google Somali articles, but the two of us, you can find plenty and then you can choose from.We have also there is a journal called Bildhaan. It’s an International Journal of Somali studies. Most of it is in English. We're now celebrating the 20th anniversary of that journal this year. A: You've seen it as it is on big website. So if you just pulled down in there, it will come at you from 2001 to the present. And you can, you can, you can review that and see what articles you might want to read. So then I have written quite a few, some of those articles through the years. But there are many, many, many scholars, some of them Somali and then British, American and others who have written about this. From anything from environmental questions to issues of gender to business biographies. I mean, there are all kinds of things, so that's also a good place to begin to build on that journal. R: Thank you for sharing that. I'm going to do some research after this is very interesting. I don't have any other questions or anything else. Any final story that you wanted to share? Some final remarks? A: Yeah. I mean, for me, as I said, the beginning well, I question or a treasured the family I came from and the Somali identity. But it does become, that has become less important for me. Have a look like Somalia and speak Somali and all of them. A: But my values are different. And they are values that are quite sometimes quite antithetical to the way that Somalis live their lives. [I am a ] very private person. Except when I'm speaking to crowds. I have become a synthetic person in many ways. There are many other things in my personality now that are not Somali and therefore leaving Somalia was a blessing. Then coming to the two, to England to grow up and become come of age. And then the United States, four degrees here. And then becoming a professor. A: Probably the, if I may say so the most distinguishing Somali person so far in the academy in the world. I became a full professor. I became a dean for 17 years. I became an endowed professor with an endowed chair for the past 18 years, 20 years. None of that has happened amongst all of those at one time. A: So that's not because I'm a Somali. That's because I had opportunities which were not available and Somali society and ambitions that were not available. And so modern society and cultural contexts which was [sic] not available in Somali society. A: That's something is still available for people who want to do the work–heavy lifting. You have to do the work. A: I am glad to be here and be part of the culture of the United States. I use what I still have of Somali culture in a positive way. But I have gone beyond that. I think 30 years ago really. A: And I created this journal where there was no academic journal or some early studies before I created this 20 years ago. There are 20-some universities that are affiliated with this around the world. From University of California to other University of London and other places and digital University, I moved university all of these but part of the International Editorial Advisory Board. A: So this country has been very good to me and the experience has been quite sweet and wonderful, liberating. A: I wish Muslim artists will bite the bullet and move on beyond Somali traditional culture and mentality and get into the world in a big way. If they do that, then they might be able to celebrate their country themselves. A: If they don't. The past, it would be the future of so many people. Particularly bad. I mean, it's, it's the worst country in the world. I don't know whether you'll notice if you, it's the most corrupt country in the world. A: There is an organization around the world, that research organization called Transparency International. And every year they look at the least corrupt and the most corrupt. And then they have a league table for that. And at the bottom are always Somalis. A: So that's disheartening to see something like that. A year after year after year. They cannot get their politics organized themselves to become part of the world. The rest of Africa sees them as a shameful place. A: That's what the Ugandan president Savini said to the EU about ten years ago, something like that, or 12 or 15 years ago, and said that the Somalis are the same of the African continent. And he's right. I mean, it's just unbelievable. A: They're sort of instruction. I mean, nothing works. Everything is a mess. They are not dumb people. But there is something in their culture and their mentality. I think that is so self-destructive, I think as a society. And if you were born there, then we'd never left there. You wouldn't be the person you are today. You'll be in gambling someplace and Ghibli or some place like that. A: Where's your father from? R: Brundtland? I don't know. That's pretty exactly yeah. A: . It's the same sloughing happening that much if the basic life. Have you ever been there? I hadn't been to the hospital but I went to her guests that boiler, right. Right. Yeah. I mean, pollutants the same. Exactly. There's nothing different. I mean, the claims, this is Somaliland. A: This has been like the claims. Egotistical claims are different. What you are an educating handle on what you saw in gambling unimportant man had besides what you will see in Brooklyn. It's the same. If you go to Mogadishu or Kissmetrics, the same whole project is a failure. A: Somalia thinks that they are going to break away and they are different. A lot of that map, they can, they can do much. And they haven't realized that even if they wanted to do that, they don't know how to work towards it seriously. A: You're going to engage the bottom and displace. You know what they talk about. It's just a local thing that this group, that group, this, that, that, that, that's nothing. And you saw what? The freedom of women in the workplace. So it's just a horrible. A: So why would I–I mean, I tried to I ran for president in Somalia in 2012, trying to help and push things to a level. But there's no, there's nobody to talk to them about that level. Snobbery. A: Everybody is in a basement and talking about things that are so childish, so divisive. Nobody's seeing the great problems. A: I remember as a candidate, I went to, I went to visit the largest refugee camp in the world at that time, 2012, almost 0.5 million Somalis in that place. Some of them had been there already for 15 or 20 years. They went there to look at as a candidate to spend a day, two days and two nights there talking to different groups and all of that. So huge and it's 0.5 million city. It's all tense and really horrible quality fed by the international charity organizations. A: So when I came back to Mogadishu to speak to people about this as a candidate, what I saw and what we need to do. People in the, in the, in the parliament were telling me, “Professor Samatar, you're always talking about these poor people. That's the responsibility of the international community.” A: Don't talk to us about that. What do we want you to talk to us about is how you're going to buy my vote will cost you $5 thousand or $10 thousand. Do you want me to vote for you in planning? That's the mentality. This did not realize is that in camps and all of this, this is the responsibility of international charity organization. A: These are their own people, half a million people. This is what I meant leaving Somalia. And so while the culture wasn't liberation, liberation, and you should work out on that to make success out of your life. And that'd be dragged back into this. R: I think from my personal experience, I was like, I'm thankful that I came from an educated family. You know, I–I recognize that that's not the normal recognition that having all of my parents, siblings be educated is not something that's prominent in the Somali community. I think that has influenced what I wanna do my career, how I want to function as a member of society and hearing the things of what's going on back in Somalia, it makes me want to go back, but I also recognize that the systems that are in place are not built to be fixed overnight. R: And it's not something that I can go back–and just because I'm educated now, because they have some sort of pull or torque out here in the United States and in North America. I can't go back there and like fix that many years. I'm destruction and corruption. A: Right, What are you a senior now? R: I'm a junior. Junior now at the University of Kansas. A: Yeah, 20 years ago, I think it was maybe more. I came there to give lectures. The African city center, there was a man from the Caribbean who was the director at that time. Big white hair, short fellow with a very nice person. And they invited me when I was in New York teaching. I went there for two days and give two talks. Like Lawrence is a nice university. So what are you studying? R: I'm studying human biology and global international studies. A: Okay. Maybe, yeah, maybe you guys can, can get into public health or something like that. R: That's my goal. My goal stands for Public Health. Started looking at grad school programs for next year. A: Yeah. Well, I think you to think, I mean, you have to develop a different culture. You have to develop a culture of reading, culture of reading. Of course, if you develop a culture of reading, then you will be able to move in different directions and hook up with the rest of the world. A: If you don't do that and become an oral person like the Somalis and just talking Somalis about monger, then all that education will dissipate. Okay? A: So this last year and that's left for you seriously. And a culture and an organize yourself so that you are using this tool to know about the world, your field and other fields too. A: Educated persons, not just having degrees, [an] educated person is someone who is on the track of being a student for the rest of your life. I see you teach and share with others when you become a student for the rest of your life. A: These are the things that Somalis don't understand. They just don't. So you need to move out of that and get into that kind of lifestyle. If you do that, then I think the opportunities will come your way and the choices would be multiple and the likelihood to be God, god willing life would be a joy to, to, to, to live. If you drag yourself for the drag you back into Somali mentality and culture you are done for? R: Yeah. Yeah. Honestly speaking, at my school, I go to a big state school [the University of Kansas]. There are not many similarities. I can count them on my hands. It's just to me, my family, my brother and my cousin. And then I want to say to other boys, yeah, I don't see any risk Somali women in. I think a part of it is because to go to school and warrants and to actually integrate into society in Lawrence [Kansas] community, you need to eliminate waste and hope that still it's 2021. R: And women, girls my age are not moving out of the house and ongoing school. That's what I think. I think it's really sad that the opportunities that I've got at this university tuition I would not have gotten had I gone to the community school, my aunt's house or back home? A: Yes. Yes, yes, no, no. The opportunities. It's one of the great blessings of this country. And then had its racism. Big time in this country. Still. Part of the problem for African-Americans. They skipped a small sliver at the top of this, the vast majority still have not understood that if you are going to ask for equality, you have to add equality. A: It's not given you have to add, it is and adding it means then you bring some assets to the table. The tragedy in African American society is that it has, life has become a series of complaints. Complaints they did disliked, they're doing this to us. They did it start. A: Okay. Okay. Okay. Question has to be, how do you get out of that? R: Yeah, how are you going to move forward? A: And you can't, in American society, you can never go forward unless you become–you become educated them. And this is one of the [most] highly educated societies in the world. A: Competition is stiff, okay? So you get to do that. And if you have a family that is just falling apart generation after generation and getting involved in things that have nothing to do with the quality of life. A: Then those African-Americans who–who see that and then they get out of this. They move out. They move out. And what else can they do? You can't drag it. Big gigantic ship full of trash. How do you–how do you pull that by yourself? You can't. A: So I feel sorry for the African-American elite because where are the rest? You can find a small group of Somalis like that too. But where is the rest? Nowhere to be seen. A: And if you've seen them, they don't want to move. They can’t fit with them because that means disaster. A: I cannot overemphasize the importance of education as far as you can go, and then make it part of your own life for the rest of your life. A: If you have a boyfriend or you get married, you want to make sure that he doesn't drag you down. He doesn't drag you back into the Somali mess. That you and your way you are becoming fully independent woman, you drive your life forward. A: And if you have children, then they will see that example. Yeah. That's–that's the record of your own family. They will see the example. A: And then I used to tell Bashir, your uncle. I used to tell him that you can see people like that. The two people that I know very well in the family besides your grandmother is Bashir and Haddan they are know reasonably well and they are, they have excelled quite impressively. A: I'm sure there are others, maybe your mother and others. But look, look, look ahead. A: Excellence is a moving target. So look ahead. Keep pursuing that. Keep pursuing that, keep pursuing that. Don't look back except once in a while to sober you up and to see how far you have come and how far you still have to go. Okay? A: You do that then you [are] in a country where it's still the opportunities are available and you will excel, life would be worthwhile. Then you might be able here and there to help individuals when you can, okay? A: But first, liberate your life and get your life going. And learning until death. Learning is a lifetime project. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That would be a family for us is close family because I don't know whether your grandmother or your other uncles have told you, but we come from the same root. A: You're my, my grandmother and your grandmother's grandmother. Bashir’s grandma. These were sisters. So the [indistinguishable] sisters? R:Yeah. A: My grandmother. Your mother, grandmother, Bashir's father, Mousa, grandmother, and mother. All of these were sisters. So we come from a very basic unit together in the Ghibli area. A: Then, but then the Habilis move to [indistinguishable]. But we stayed in Ghibli for tomorrow. Your grandmother and my mother and my–my family and other Ghibli. But she was families’ bottom of folks. A: We are from Ghibli. Just more of this, but so do to our grandmothers. So we are linked together. But then on the father's side also, we are linked together. All of us. Your mother–your mother's mother, sorry. Bashir and his father, myself and my father. And he said all we are also on the fathers said the male side, we're also from the same family. A: So they bought up together like this. Then your mother's father and your mother's father? And my mother. My mother were also from the same [family]. Your grandmother's father? My mother and father also from the same unit. The group. A: So we're like, I mean, it's like this [Ahmed shows interlocking hands]. Whichever way you–whichever way you cut it, It's the same thing. The family has been very most honorable as family has been very into detail, has been very successful, very good. So I'm very proud of them. R: So when, when, when [indistinguishable name] goes back to Ghibli, you all try to see each other? A: Whenever we go, we do. Most of the older people have died, so they are not here anymore. Had a mother who was one of the aunts. She died last year, I think, she my aunt and I when I was a young boy I used to go and see her and she would give me shillings and things like that. A: Then I remember growing [up] underneath your mother's mother. And I are about the same age. So they got married very young. Quite young. But yeah, we have memories of togetherness. We were kids. Memories of that. A: The greatest–I think–opportunity for Hardar was to move out of Ghibli and come to Mogadishu and marry your grandfather. A: I think he was one of the first educated people in the country. I think he went to school in Sudan and then to England to be trained in the military. He is an exceptionally capable person. And his younger brother Tujava was educating the states. A: So there is a cluster of these two families. Their family and our family. Different than anything you see in Ghibli. Really different. So many of us became very successful on the highest levels. So we want the next generation, people like you [Radhia] and others to pick that pace. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ahmed Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Somalia to Minnesota Description An account of the resource Ahmed is a Somali professor at Macalester College in Minnesota. In this interview, he speaks about the Somali diasporic community, reflects on his role as an educator, and considers various challenges that Somalia faces such as corruption and the lack of interest in education. Towards the end of the interview, he comments on the difficulties that Somali women face even in a country with more opportunities like the United States. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Late 1900s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Minnesota Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_i1ec0uhf" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_i1ec0uhf/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Ahmed Trimmed"></iframe> Community Discrimination Education Identity Minnesota Somalia https://comingtotheheartland.org/files/original/f8d98cc250cf01fc422cc230a62635a1.jpg 58c6489719a313999a82541c9b840e29 https://comingtotheheartland.org/files/original/3e1e317c2e304f06d10d9fe7749984f9.jpg f38e8234d20c2ba9b0f550448bb9cc46 https://comingtotheheartland.org/files/original/0e0e1ee5849f5dc3d1749897cb410c03.jpg de04603d906aea786f8a6d7bdb62175c https://comingtotheheartland.org/files/original/e2e668a0ce2845ab44fdd8af1f76f621.jpg c3c669ed4a38852cbcdf0183f29a71b2 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Format Video, audio only, text only Audio Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Yuvia Serna City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Chiapas, Mexico Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Kansas Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Aileen (A) Yuvia (Y) A: My parents both immigrated here, they came at different times. But my dad came from Chiapas, Mexico and my mom came from El Salvador. And she came, I think, when she was 17 or something and she was a house cleaner, but she went back and forth from Mexico to California, to El Salvador to California. A: Then when my dad came, I think he came to work [in] agriculture probably. He also went to California first. A: But they got married in Mexico, had my brother and Mexico and then they would live in California for part-time and then go back for a few years for two of their kids because my older sisters were born in California. A: And it was for me, I was born in Kansas, obviously. A: But it's interesting because it's like a whole, it's a whole different life with them. There's so many things that I didn't know, so many experiences that are so bizarre to me. A: I remember my mom was telling me that she worked on a coffee farm and she's like, yeah, they pay me like $0.05 a day. I'm like, Mom, that's not working. And she's like, No, that's fine. We bought tortillas. Mom. That doesn't…No! A: Or she'll just talk about like having to catch three buses when she was like seven to go beg her dad for shoes, like money for shoes to go to school. And it's like, it's weird, it's just like one or like one generation off. But the things that they've experienced is barbaric. A: And I think that it makes us as a generation feel really guilty because here we are sitting pretty in our air conditioned homes and our kids have all these gadgets to play with and all the time they're just like, I didn't have that when I was little or when I complain about you probably maybe you did. I don't know. You probably did. A: But the different parenting styles that I've noticed, like our generation doesn't want to hit their kids and our parents. They would beat our [expletive] if we did anything wrong. And they're just like, Well, I got beat in school. I'm like, Okay, but I didn't beat you in school. Why would you–why would you do that? A: And it's just so fascinating because they're not bad parents. It's not just, it's not just them. It's across cultures. I've noticed. It's Latinx people, it's black people, It's Asian people. All immigrant parents are very similar when it comes to this stuff. A: But there's just a disconnect. It's almost as if like it's like when they grew up they were just, I don't know, like objects that people could control. So then when they were older, That's what they expected from young kids. A: And I've noticed that with older people now when it comes to voting and social justice, they're really annoyed with younger people because it's like, well, why did they have to be out-spoken like this and this, and I think that it’s them projecting because they never got to do that. They just, they just didn't. And it's so weird. A: But the biggest thing that I struggled with was one that guilt that I wasn't living up to my potential for everything that they did come in here, working shit jobs–four jobs at a time to provide for their kids. A: And what am I doing? I studied political science and I graduated, but like I'm not actively doing anything with my degree and I feel so terrible because they've put in so much effort for us. A: And I felt like I just kinda came up like a dud. Like what am I doing for them? A: But just like the guilt that we have to validate, they're coming here and make it worth it. A: Even though it was their choice. I wasn't around, I didn't contribute to them coming here, but I don't know. But guilt has been a big thing for me. A: And I guess the second thing is having that disconnect to the motherland. Like we got a taste of their culture, but it's all Americanized. And so a lot of us don't speak Spanish. I do, but mine is very conversational. It's fine. I could write a paper, but it wouldn't be great. A: Then my kids will probably speak it very brokenly [sic] and not super great. Which sucks? A: But that's something that they, I think they kinda, kinda gave up hope on that because I know from my parents a lot of their grandkids don't speak Spanish and that's disappointing to them. And it's difficult. I think it feels kinda like rejection because they can't really communicate with them either. Because they had to learn English here. We had the privilege of knowing English and Spanish. A: But that is a whole different thing. I don't know if you've ever heard of what's it called linguistic discrimination. A: But pretty much when we were younger, we were interpreters for our parents, right. Because a lot of times they didn't have Spanish literature at the bank, at the grocery store. They didn't know what the hell was going on and they expected us to interpret or more like eight years old. A: And I'm at the doctor's office. Unlike mom, they're talking about your blood pressure, your cholesterol, this and because they didn't have interpreters available. And depending on where you lived in the US, if you live in a small town in Kansas, there's definitely not someone who speaks Spanish, who they're paying to interpret for you. But if you live in a bigger city, there probably is. A: But the whole thing with linguistic discrimination is that our parents had an accent. And so they got discriminated against because of that or our parents–you know that language barrier just it caused so many problems for them that we felt the pressure to fill in those gaps. And how to make it better. A: And at a young age, it kinda messes a few because if you do something wrong, like it all falls on your shoulders because you're the one that didn't interpret it correctly. So that was interesting. A: When I was an adult and went to college and learned all these things, I realized how traumatized I was, but it's fine [jokingly]. A: I don't know. I guess the last thing is because there's so many of us people my age, I want to say like a third of the people my age that I know that our Latinx, they're not citizens. And then the other half are the ones who aren't like, we have two completely different struggles. A: Like if they want to go to college, it's all out-of-pocket for them. And if we want to go to college, like maybe we'll get scholarships, most likely will get into debt. But at least that's an option for us and they don't have that. Or they can't just find a job like that and we can because we have a Social Security card. A: And it's just I don't know. Those things were interesting to navigate, but I don't know. A: Did you have any specific questions? I feel like I'm rambling. No. Y: You–you can go on. Now it's really interesting hearing your story because I can relate on so many different levels. I can echo everything that you've said just because I'm also a daughter of immigrants. Y: But you were talking about how that guilt and that sort of resentment. So as the child of immigrants, like you are, we harbored those. How do you think that impacted your future? Did you feel like because of those emotions or those sentiments, what did you do because of them in terms of like present day or in the future? What were your actions because of them? A: Yeah. Well, I think some people they kinda shut down. They're just like, no, that's not my journey. And we'll just play Call of Duty all day. Their parents complain, whatever. A: And then the other half, I think we become very type A people hyperactive. We always seem to be doing something. We feel guilty if we don't have a job, if we don't work. A: Like right now. Yes. I graduated and I'm doing part-time work, but I don't contribute a lot financially to my family. I'm mostly a stay at home mom. And the guilt that comes with that is awful because my mother had to take care of four children while cleaning house, while working in Taco Bell, while working for a newspaper. And I get to sit at home with one baby. And I think that's hard. A: Like I feel like I have no place to complain, but it just feels weird like not not working, not doing something that's moving. A: And part of that is I think the culture like we have a hustle culture now that when you're not starting a business that's worth a million dollars, like, What are you doing? You know, which that is a whole different conversation. A: But I think it worsens tenfold when there's just like that looming on your shoulder, whatever like in your brain telling you like, well, you better make it worth it. Are your parents came here for no reason. A: And then, I think another thing that is impacted, I don't know if he grew up in a multi-generational household? Like, I had my abuela in the house and sometimes we had tios in the house and then there's us and my parents. So there's a lot of us. A: But the problem with that is when my parents would bring some relatives over. A lot of times they would live in our house for a while. But these fools didn't work for a while because they didn't have social security numbers. I couldn't work. They just kinda hung out. A: And I think that was more pressured to work when you're in high school and stuff because you also have to contribute financially to your family then. A: There's just pressure all the time. It's like you don't get you don't get a break, which sucks. A: And then on top of that, I think is our problem with identities. We don't at least for me, like I'm a little lighter, fine. But when I grew up in a small town in Kansas. And so it was very obvious that it was not a white person. A: But then when I went to a bigger high school all the Mexican people, there were just like, you're not wrong. You're not Mexican. Like What are you talking about? I'm just like what? I just came from a place where they wouldn't let me be white and now you’re note letting me be Mexican, I don't understand. A: Then it's worse if you don't speak Spanish or if you have light hair, like light eyes, and it's not obvious that you're, I don't know, Chicana, I guess. That was weird. A: And like the state [Kansas] that we're in, there's not a lot of I mean, there is some diversity but not really in like a bigger places, I guess institutions, you could say, there's not a lot of people. I think there is a little more now. A: But now it's definitely cool to be diverse and to be including. But before I don't really think that was an emphasis that they had. So that's the story. Y: Okay. So if you could talk to not necessarily one specific person in your family, but someone in the generation before you, older than you, what would you like them to know about your experiences now? A: That they don't have to, that we know their struggle. They told us even if they didn't say the words every single day. Like we know and we feel we feel guilty for it or we feel responsible. A: And so it's not, even if I don't become president or whatever, I hope that what I did was enough and that what they taught me was enough. And I'll always show respect to the janitor, to the CEO with an equal amount that I'll never like. A: You and I were in college, which is great. But when we walk into an administration building, we don't see white people cleaning it. We see our people cleaning it? I'll never look down on them for that. Yeah, that's it. Y: And then to reverse, what do you want the generations to come to know about your experiences are what you want them to. Skills, Tips A: yeah. Y: advice. A: I hope that they continue to educate themselves on length, true history, to not fell separated like Americans versus us. Because we were here first, we are native. We absolutely are, like know who you are, know your roots. Like no real American history. A: The [expletive] they taught us like do your research. That way you never take for granted what's going on. And I don't know, at least right now, the big thing is like vote because I know my parents, they worked hard as hell to be able to vote and they voted ever since they were able to. A: But there's a lot of people in my generation who don't think it matters or who've fallen into that trap. Like they'll do it but they don't put research into it. They don't care about it. Just like know your rights and remember them because we worked hard for them. Just that. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Aileen Subject The topic of the resource An oral history from Chiapas, Mexico to Kansas. Description An account of the resource Aileen’s father is from Chiapas, Mexico and her mother is from El Salvador. In this interview, Aileen shares some of her thoughts about generational differences as well as her past experiences interpreting for her parents at banks and grocery stores due to linguistic differences. She also talks about the disconnect between how she perceived herself, as Mexican, and how others, especially Mexicans perceived her, as white. Her advice for the younger generation is to continue their education. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_qpqcsur7" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_qpqcsur7/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland_Aileen_Trimmed.mp4"></iframe> Community Education Identity Mexico Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Alex Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Video Language of Interview English City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Mexico Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Garden City, Kansas Transcript Alex (A): Do you want me to start, I guess, like just quick quickly clarifying live with my parents stories and other kind of became into my story that sort of thing. A: And…so a lot of stuff that I know actually it came about in…uh...different snippets. So like everything they tell me it wasn't like but they sent me down one time and it's like here's our entire story sometimes it's like every once in a while I’ll sit down and they'll be like and then they'll tell me like another snippet of what happened and so it's like learning little bits and pieces as I go along, and so a lot of things i'm going to be honest, like I may not be like 100% accurate and I feel like that's just part of like the storytelling in a piece of it because it's like well. A: I don't really know…they [Alex’s parents] just get sometimes we're just like having lunch or dinner or something, let me down and be like oh yeah, by the way we also did this, we were younger and I'll be like oh I didn't know that. A: But like essentially the story, as I know it is…so they were growing up in the little village in Durango. It was about a couple hundred people–wasn't something that was big. A: Their area really didn't have like a lot of like electricity didn't have like you know Internet like indoor plumbing like none of that; it was a pretty rural community. A: And so my parents actually didn't finish school all the way: they had to drop out of school so they can [sic] help my parents and my grandparents on the farm. My grandpa on my dad's side would come over to the States to work in some kind of industry. He would make his way all the way up to Chicago actually because that's where other people that he knew were at and so he would go up there, they worked in the industry and he would leave behind like my grandma with my aunts and uncles: there was [sic] quite a few of them, I think there was like seven of them seven or eight of them. A: And so when my dad came of age, he actually started going up with my grandpa over to Chicago and started working in such too..ummm..I think he was actually maybe a little younger than I was because I'm 26 and [he] might have been this early 20s when it started happening. A: So it's interesting because a lot of it's like he also kind of grew up here in the states as well, in a way, because of that reason. A: And so, he would do that stuff…he lived up here, I want to say for maybe like almost a 10 years he did that and then he went back down to Mexico and in the same village that they were at he married my mom. A: And then afterwards they started…he started come up here and work again and then my mom came over here and started working. A: I actually remember like bits and pieces of stories about how my mom told me how she came over here. She crossed the the border just kind of like a train. It was like a train tracks kind of area there was like–walk across. This was before they [the U.S. government] started paying like huge attention to like the southern border and stuff too so see just seems kind of came. A: And then see what tell me how that was also her first time getting on an airplane because they went to I don't remember exactly the name of the town, but they went a certain town and from there, she caught like an airplane to like another city and met with met up with my dad here in the States. A: I remember her telling me that, like how like everyone around her was like kind of like afraid because she was coming in with a group of people like she was relatively young so she didn't really like you know, like she wasn't really aware of how big the situation was like that how I don't want to say grave, but like how like you know just these the seriousness of it all. A: And so, she thought it was funny that some people were really nervous and whatever. She knows she got on an airplane and came over here. A: But eventually they did that, for a while, then they came to Colorado actually. They came to–I think it was like an onion or a pickle plant or something it was near or is La Junta, Colorado…so is a couple miles, maybe a couple hours like three hours roughly West where the currently at now so it's Eastern Colorado. A: And they lived there with family until my sister was born. My sister was born in Colorado, actually. A: And then they heard about an opportunity at the meat processing plant town, because I had an uncle who worked there. My uncle was like hey like, if you want somewhere steady where your kids can grow up and it's a nice environment, you know small, quiet. and calm. You can come work over here and like there's opportunity here because there's work and everything, and so my family moved over there and. A: I only recently found out about this, but like it was my dad's intention to actually go back up to Chicago someday. But because the environment in Garden [City] was like so quiet and nice and everything so he's like well, this is a good place for me to raise my family that isn't like a city, environment and I don't want my kids to go into like gangs or to do any of that stuff so they stayed there. A: So I was actually born in Garden [City]--it was like 1995. A: I don't know how long they live there actually but I know it's been a minute since…few years. A: And I was born and raised there…went to school there and did everything else too. A: You know it wasn't…For me, like I was described Garden [City] as an interesting place to live generally because whenever I tell anybody like the reason why they know about it it's either because, like they know about it because they studied it like it's some kind of like diversity thing that people look at and that's mainly the reason why they hear about it. A: So usually my elevator pitch is to tell people about it like from my house I can walk over…you know there's some like authentic Vietnamese food, I can get some like some authentic spring rolls there's like that goes there's like tacos..and then there's Long John Silver's and all that stuff like traditional American traditional like Mexican and traditional Vietnamese all in one strip [mall]. A: So I can just walk in and get all that stuff there. A: And part of that's because Tyson…you know the way they bring different waves of immigrants over and everything else too. A: You never know exactly like who exactly is being brought over this time. So one time, I was talking to my dad it's like oh yeah now they’re [Tyson] is bringing Cubans over you know. A: And so there was a way of the Cuban people coming over and so it's just like different waves of people that just happened to come over. A: You know, and then it's interesting because I didn't until I actually started studying Garden [City] I didn't realize the like the actual history of it, where it's like Tyson or like back then, it was IBP made the intentional effort of like opening offices and Mexico City and actually telling people, they would bring him over and like stuff like that to him. A: In Garden [City] there's a trailer park called “trailers de IBP.” A: I didn't know why that was…like I just like..oh that's just I just assumed that just because we're a bunch of people work at IBP lived at. But it actually turns out that IBP had a thing, where it's like hey we're they actually had property of that and they're like we have these trailers here, so our workers can live in. So they actually made the intention of getting them housing and stuff too, and I did not realize that wasn't part of the history of that they're just like oh that's interesting. A: But anyways you know…like the biggest connection that I always saw like between like the way my parents grew up in the way that I grew up with this…that education piece was always huge because they would always tell me it's like you have to go out get education, so you don't end up working like in a similar like place like we are you know we're working all these long hours. A: So and that's generally like the way it works…like Tyson is the boogeyman of the town like if you don't study, if you don't like any education, then like you're gonna end up working there. A: And that's how it is for everybody, like you know, because the major employers of the area are like Tyson, the school district, or the hospital. A: And so like one thing that I tell everybody also about Garden City is that, like a lot of us don't realize how like I guess like rough, the situation is because we're all pretty homogeneously broke…like where the same income bracket and…we're all generally like majority Latino, majority working at Tyson so it's like in a way it's like it's pretty homogenous in that sense. A: But, as I was saying…yeah like the education piece is pretty important to them early on, and so you know I always tell like my parents like are you I’m gonna go. I’m gonna go to university. I'm going to university and they're like yeah and you know, like finish high school for us, you know it's one step at a time that sort of thing too. A: And so…I got lucky in the sense, like, I found like a good group of friends that were all we all kind of wanted to go to university and we all kind of decided that, like we were going to…we were going to study we actually wanted to go out of state, preferably. A: And it was interesting because, like the our school was pretty open about like that they were not preparing us for college and at one point of our like our freshman year actually. A: And like there was, like several instances of is like…freshman year the principal like you know assault freshmen are just sitting and, like in this big gymnasium…Garden City High School was like 2000 students and so like the freshman class was pretty big I don't like maybe like 500 or something. A: And so there's this all of us sitting there and, like the the principal like says “Okay, all of you stand up like this half sit down to have to just sit down like half of you are not going to make it to graduation. A: And so, like that was the way, like we were introduced to it like looking back at it like now I'm just like you know why the hell, would you do that, but like at the time I was just like okay like you know, like in and then. A: There were other instances later on to such as like we had asked one of our principals in like How are we supposed to get ready for college when all you're doing is like classwork is just like state tests and getting us ready for that and he's like well we're not getting ready for college we're not getting you ready for college we're getting you ready for the state test, and that was another thing or just kind of like okay well like that's that's you know that's that's bad for a lot of reasons. A: And then amplifying the situation just making it worse, is also that Garden City is also pretty isolated. A: So we don't have the benefit of having like a universities around us, or we can actually like go to them, and you know, like visit them and stuff too, like any trip we make to university. A: Does that take us a few hours out so like we're flipping Western Kansas it's like minimum like three to go to like Wichita State or something…so it's definitely a few hours out but that education piece like I said was important. A: So like I ended up going to KU you obviously and while I was there that's when I really begin to notice that, like well you know a lot of people actually don't look like me; a lot of people are actually have like a lot more money, like there was a particular class project where I made a survey and ask some of our classmates you know, like what is it that your parents do like how much do we, you know household income things like that, too. A: I was like actually pretty surprised to see how many like people were like the the six digits and you know triple whatever and how many people like parents are doctors or lawyers everything else too. A: So, so all that to say is like I guess like that that's been like a major theme throughout my life, at least in something that when I graduated like it's not going to be lost on me where it's just like all right, like this [my education] is important because, like I think about it, like my great grandfather only finished, like the third grade and then my grandpa like the sixth grade and then like…well, actually, not an accident think my great grandfather will just go and I think about it, but like my grandpa finished, like the third grade; my dad like the sixth grade, and then you know my finished, like the the 10th grade or whatever. A: And for me that's like that's something that's always stays in the back of my mind like how big of an impact that is just because it's almost like honestly, like the diploma…I just better it's a piece of paper to me; I didn't even picked up my undergraduate diploma yet like it's still sitting there like okay you. I haven't picked it up yet, but I do intend to pick them both up and just kind of give them to my parents almost because I know it's more important to them than it is to me. A: And I see this like being connected back to this, the idea of like generational trauma right because I feel like they weren't able to do like a lot of their education. And complete a lot of it, because they were like…lived in poverty and like they had to go work in the fields and everything else too… and then for me to all of a sudden, have access to this level of education and to be able to complete it…isn't necessarily like I think by itself meaningful, but like when when you add it to that context I think it's very important and that's something that's kind of a lesson that stuck with me. A: And just in terms of trying to think of like…what else in particular here. But I don't know it's hard because, like a lot of like when I think about like retelling of stories and how I learned about different things it's all it all came very…it's all like orally told, and so I think about this like maybe not even just like stories of itself, but like I also think about like medical records and medical pasts and…and things like that, too, because there was a while, where like I didn't know our family’s medical history because that's just something that didn't exist because they didn't have any formal records or anything like that. A: And so it was a…when I started going through my mental health issues and then my dad told me he's like hey like your grandma actually has like goes through like epileptic episodes I'm like I didn't know that like when this when is this like I feel like. A: I mean, especially when doctors tell me like…is it asked me like you know, is there, like a history of xyz thing and your family like whatever. Unless it's like super obvious I just kind of go I don't know like I honestly don't know, like all these things are just kind of they just come out at random moments. A: And then the thing that I found interesting about that too is that there's a you know, like the stigma with everything about like mental health and the stigma associated with like other medications and everything else too and it's just like it's just it that's like an interesting dynamic of like what is shared and what isn't shared. A: So I think for me like that's been the biggest thing is that, like there's so many unknowns about like my past. A: And about like I know like I’ve heard these stories and, like some of these stories are like I know they're like incomplete and that's why like I also did like back pedaling a little bit, but that's also why I decided to do like my undergraduate or like my minor in Latin American studies to because I felt like that was an opportunity for me to learn more about like my stories like indirectly. A: That helps um I mean, I was able to learn certain things and I was able to like when my parents spoke about certain things be able to articulate relate to it more and be like okay yeah cuz I kind of like learned from it, you know or study this and looked into that. A: So I think yeah that's…I think that some of that’s… Is there any clarifying questions you may have anything? Marta Caminero (M): Yeah…So..Here's just an actual clarifying question: So when your dad was going with your granddad to Chicago was it the kind of circular migration, where they were coming back seasonally? Or yearly?. A: It was just yeah…they would make…they would go up and they would actually would make money come back down and obviously was all to help the family and such to but because I remember my dad talking about specifically how they were periods in time, which my grandpa would leave and, like my grandma would stay there, and they would come back in and just go through that process until they're old enough to go out there. M: And, can you tell me a little bit about what it was like growing up in Garden City? I mean you said that you didn't really realize that not everyone looked the way you did until you got to KU…so What was it like growing up in a community where you weren't identifiably I were there were lots of Latinas and what was it like growing up in a school that was poor? I mean you told me a little, but… A: Right, I mean I…I actually enjoyed it, I mean like I think that, like I didn't really realize like how because it mean I didn't realize how…how good I had it until I left so like you know, like now I’m looking back at the experience it was actually I enjoyed a lot because, like a it was almost like a full of em like…your whole identity was included as opposed to. A: Like because you know you go to you would go to Walmart and they'd be like not just one aisle on Latino things but it'd be ubiquitous…ubiquitously spread everywhere and then like we'd go to McDonald's and then my mom could order in Spanish, as opposed to like having to talk broken English whatever you know, like so you can you can do everything in Spanish, and just live like a normal life there like like you know quote unquote normal. A: And it was…it was interesting to me, also because I feel like I don't know like I just didn't know that like…like how different everything else was because there was a certain faction of people who were more affluent so they were you know they were like just statistically speaking, they were more white as well, and they have like their own little community outside of the city. A: It's called Southwind and that's where like a lot of like the rich people go that's where they live and then you know they have like more nicer houses and building like outside the city stuff too so it's it was it's like a microcosm of what's happening like elsewhere. A: And so I thought that was particularly interesting and, like you, didn't you didn't notice all these things because you're in the middle of it and, like you know, like all your friends are like look like you have the same income everything else too. [speaking over each other] M: But…did you code switch or what was..what was it like, with your friends? A: Um it wasn't…we so…we spoke majority of the time we spoke English, most of us understood Spanish, though, but like whenever you go to someone's house you know, like you have to saludar and say buenas tardes and everything else too. A: It's..it is code switching but there's also like a component of that that's like more… it's a little deeper than being just like Mexican…so like, for example, because, like a lot of people came from like poor rural backgrounds like there is certain behavioral expectations that they have so you have to be like more…I guess more conservative more like, “how do you do” more like “please, and thank you” kind of thing, as opposed to like more which I feel like more like urban Mexican where it's like a different culture almost. A: So everyone had…like a similar background of like coming from like more…whose parents came from more rural urban or like rather rural more poor and so like there was like an expectation of a behavior almost. A: For example, my parents whenever someone my friends wouldn't they wouldn't say hi my parents would be like “has andado con un niño que no saluda”...you know you're with a kid that doesn't say hi? A: So there's always an expectation of like we have to say “hi” like get to be courteous like manners…manners is super super important and so like there is there's a little bit of like I guess like almost switching in that sense. A: And then the other thing too is like it's interesting also to like because they had like major celebrations there too…so, like the Mexican Independence Day was huge; they'd have a parade and have people there, you know the stuff in the park afterwards huge events. A: And it was kind of funny for me to see the…other part of this, too, was seeing how…instead of like it was almost like…we had to accommodate… A: cuz let me give an example, so, for example, like when I went to there's a place, you can eat it's called Mariscos Puerto Nuevo…and I was like seafood and stuff too… it's a pretty popular spot, and so one thing one thing that I saw one time that was pretty interesting was…You know, I was sitting there with friends, we were eating that's like the local place to eat like we're pretty open pretty late at night. A: And then, so this white person comes in, and they they're the ones that are struggling to order you know food they're the ones that are struggling to say what they want, like the other point stuff on the menu and stuff like that, too, and then my head, I was like wow, this is an interesting thing that probably doesn't happen, a lot of places. A: Where it's like English people that people know…English other ones struggling and other ones that come in, have been here and like…and they're the ones that sound like you know they're using the broken language or whatever to and so it's it's a reversal of roles that like you don't really seen a lot of different places. A: And I didn't really fully appreciate that and looking back, I was like wow this is pretty unique to the area, and you know you don't you don't realize that until it's like okay like now, all of these things are are starting to make sense, once you go away and come back. M: Have you been back recently? Is it still that way? And I'm wondering, are there really Cubans there, and like what would influx of other Latinx people from different countries? A: I know I don't know if there was actually a wave of Cuban people coming into [Garden City]. My dad was just saying things because sometimes they [my parents] just say things I don't know like because.... A: I know that there was a wave of Somali immigrants; I know for sure that Laos and Vietnamese…I don't know if actually there was a wave of Cuban immigrants. M: Latin Americans? A: Yes, there are other Latin Americans, but like…it's I feel like they almost get consumed by like the dominant culture, the Mexican culture so it's hard to like find different subsets because everyone just assumes that you're Mexican and everyone just kind of like it's a very like…it's like Mexican is a dominant culture and so like that's the one that's kind of like it eats all the other ones, and so that's how I kind of feel about ‘em. A: And then, and then the other thing I will say is that…one of the…the not so fun parts about like this is that, like in when you have a different wave of like…[END]. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Alex Subject The topic of the resource An oral history from Durango, Mexico to Garden City. Description An account of the resource Alex grew up in Garden City, Kansas and his parents are from Mexico. In this interview, Alex talks about the importance of education, family, and community. He also talks about feeling out of place at times during his time at the University of Kansas. Towards the end of this interview, he talks about wanting to know more about his family history. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_h8f8x6yt" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_h8f8x6yt/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland_Alex_Trimmed"></iframe> Community Education Garden City Identity Mexico Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Audio Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Maggie Wilcox City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Zanzibar Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Kansas Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Alisha Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Alisha (A) Maggie (M) A: I just wanted to clarify that. I was okay. M: Yeah. So I know you read this, but I just wanted to say again that it's–it's totally voluntary. You can withdraw whenever you want. You don't have to talk about anything you don't want to. It's all. You can also be anonymous if you want. In that case, I'll stop the recording. M: Yeah. So yeah, you can if you don't want to talk well, you can always just reach out to Liz MacGonagle or Marta if you have any questions and also me. So yeah. Do you have any questions so far? A: No. M: Then I’ll stop talking. What did you want to share about your family's story? A: I felt like you'd be asking you the question. M: I can ask him more questions… A: That works. Yeah, I think that works better. M: So how did your parents end up in Kansas, if they did? A: So my mom and my dad got married. And then it was my mom's idea to go to America. And she kinda–I have a big story–my mom told my dad that she wanted to be an American. And so she kind of dragged him over to America and he made it there. Yeah. M: And they're both from Zimbawe? A: They were both born and raised in them. You know, I haven't asked about that. I can go and ask and then come back to you if you want me to do this again. I really sure I don't. M: Yeah. It's just when people end up in Kansas instead of like New York or something. I'm just like it's just funny to me, I guess. A: Good questions, but I will definitely let you know about those. M: Okay. Um, did growing up–did you feel I guess, how would you identify yourself with that? A: I think now, in question you're asked and asked myself that question. Yeah. She's like like first grade, I came here to Zanzibar. And that was like the beginning of my memory. I don't really remember much before that. A: So I kind of identified when I came back to Lawrence, when I was ten, four years later, identified as African. And from Africa has like That was just what I remembered. It wasn't like I was born in America and I went to Africa. Appearance, it's just that I lived in Africa is a big part of who I was. A: So if somebody asks to, sorry…[silence]...so if somebody asked in class when they ask you to stand up and give a few interesting facts about yourself. I was born and I was raised in Africa, I speak Swahili yeah. M: Do you think that's changed over time? Instead, he still asked to identify him from African. Yeah, I recognize that once I hit like highschool, all of the people I went to middle school and elementary school with already knew that I spoke. M: Okay, that's not really my personality factor, like my determining personality trait anymore. So I think when I kinda realized there's more to it than just that trip, I took that well, I mean, it was a long trip–four years. M: Where do you see a lot of cultural similarities or differences between them? Kansas and Zanzibar? A: I thought that this morning actually, mainly Islamic religion, culture has like a speaker that plays on their sites and in the morning to pray. So I was thinking about how different that is from being in Kansas and how you would never hear a speaker playing some sort of religious monitor? M: Yeah. A: Because it's yeah. Yeah. Very different. M: I was only in Arusha for eight weeks and Zanzibar for a weekend, but I really liked the culture there just because I don't know. It was kinda soothing and also like this is what time it is. But yeah, probably wouldn't hear that in Kansas. A: I always think about how it's so different we're culturally. But I always try to remember that like everybody is a person who all people. So there has to be some similarities there. No matter if I'm in Kansas or in here in Zanzibar. A: So it's kind of a big thing I tend to think about is what exactly is different. Like, obviously the language is different. Language comes with so much. So it's very hard to kind of learn about what's exactly different in the culture without understanding the language completely? M: Yeah. How do you think language plays into it? A: Um, I don't know. It's like kind of when I think about it, it's kinda like thinking of the baby. You talk to babies, really show what you're talking about. So when somebody is speaking to me, I'm not really sure what their undercover meaning, you know. They're talking to a baby because I'm not really sure exactly what you're talking about. I can hear the words and understand somewhere that I'm not really sure what the cultural significance is. M: Yeah. So does it kinda feel like step away. Your instinct or whatever? When you speak English? Like good. A: Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I think I'm going to answer it and I hope that's the right answer you're looking for… M: I’m not looking for an answer… A: I noticed. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Just like what your question was.. But when I speak Swahili, I notice that I kind of use an accident. Obviously, I'm speaking Swahili. And I wonder if I know the kind of lost my train of thought there is that you want me to speak English here, I use a different accent. A: It's kind of I don't know, it's kind of different because just because I'm in Africa and I'm speaking the same language I speak in Kansas. My English is different. How I speak to you right now is a bit different than how I speak to someone who primarily speak, Swahili. M: That's interesting. Yeah. I yeah. I can see how that could work out. The English I speak with people who are learning English is different. [silence] A: I'm so sorry. There's a little birthday party happening. M: I’m so sorry. I don’t want you to miss a birthday party. Not your birthday party.. A: But they weren't even sure if it was going to happen today is kind of hearing just like sorry, I lost my word. Or they're kind of planning for it to be tomorrow. So it wasn't even. They're just last minute letting me know that it's happening right now. M: Okay. Well, yeah, we can always come back and do it again if you want to. No pressure. A: Ummm…I told them to give me 20 minutes. M: Okay. That works. Okay. Yes. So English, Swahili. You said earlier, you think about how everyone's human. Do you think there are some big similarities that stand out? A: Yeah. Simple ones like smiling, like a similarities like happiness, like personality wise. I don't know if that's the right word. Like happiness is a common trait. Everybody wants to be happy. I think I should act when I'm in Africa and I'm just thinking I will act happy. A: Could you repeat the question? M: If there were any similarity? Yeah. My internet is bad. [long pause] Are you there? A: Sorry. I think you cut off there. Yeah. M: Yeah. Okay. Did you think that the way you see the immigration experience is different from the way your parents see it? A: Do I think the way I see the immigration experience is the same way my parents see it? M: Or different. A: Yeah. Sorry. What? M: Or different? Similarity? A: I think it's different 100% because they're from Zanzibar. A: And I was…wait, sorry. So are you asking if I see their experience differently from my experience or if I their experience differently than their experience. Or like if I have a different perspective on how they experienced? M: Or just the immigration in general. A: Yeah. Sorry. I still don't get the question. M: Just like I know it's different because you were born in America, but just like the way you guys have experienced going back-and-forth, how do you think that's similar or different? A: Yeah. So I think it is different for me and for my parents because they were born here. This is their home, you know, no matter if they are in America. My mom always tells me this is her home and she even told me that this was my home and I kinda rudely told her that this was not my home and that Kansas was my home. Yeah. I had a little attitude there. A: But since I've been here, I've grown to learn that this is my second home because I'm getting more comfortable being here and I think being here for a year, it's definitely way more significant and impactful than being here for months at a time, like living here and not on vacation. A: So I think it's different because in the means of that I was my nationality is…I think that's right, my nationality is American and my parents are African. So I think in America they're still not American. Citizenship. Citizens. Citizenship is the right word. Sorry. A: Even if my parents are in America and their citizenship was American, they were still born in [undistinguishable]. They identify more..[audio cuts out]...to... M: For me. You're cut out for a long time. A: Sorry for the connection. M: You were saying that your parents still see themselves more as Africa and even if they have American citizenship, and then I think you cut out. A: Yeah. I also want to say that I feel the same way there myself being here in Tanzania. And I feel that, that is how people here also kind of told me to check myself. I am a foreigner. No matter if my parents are born raised here [in America], they don't know that, you know, they just see that my demeanor is a culture is all my customs are all born. M: What do you mean– A: When it makes me feel strongly about more of that. A: I'm sorry. M: I'm sorry. What do you mean when you said check yourself? A: That's a funny way to say it. Yeah, I read this. I read this or this book by a loo, by this article, by Aluo, Adjuo. I don't know, Ajoule. I forgot her name, but she was pretty much writing about checking their privilege. So that's why I said check myself. But I think it's a way of check myself as more of like I am more it personally, I feel like I get the vibe that people here want me to realize that. I don't know. Sorry… again. A: You're good. M: All right. Thank you. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Alisha Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Zanzibar to Kansas Description An account of the resource Originally from Zanzibar, Alisha has lived in Kansas since she was 10. In this interview, she talks about her identity as an African person as well as what it was like going back to visit Zanzibar. She also shares what it is like to speak both Kiswahili and English while navigating two different worlds. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_tzn0e98f" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_tzn0e98f/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Alisha"></iframe> Identity Language Zanzibar Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Language of Interview Spanish Format Video, audio only, text only Video Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Yuvia Serna Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Lawrence, KS Intermediate point in journey (1) City/State or Country to which interviewee (or parents/grandparents) traveled before coming to current point of residence Ecuador Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ana Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Ecuador to Lawrence, Kansas Description An account of the resource Originally from Ecuador, Ana is a student at the University of Kansas. In Ecuador, she graduated from high school and attended the International University of Ecuador to study medicine. Later, Ana found herself wanting to seek a better education and chose to attend the University of Kansas (KU) because of its location and academic reputation. She participated in the Academic Accelerator Program and thoroughly enjoyed her “excellent” experience. One of the best things about attending KU is that she feels reciprocity: she cares about the material and the professors care about her. Her advice for the younger generation is to explore the world and stay open to new experiences. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Early 2000s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_myuyry7y" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_myuyry7y/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Ana Interiview"></iframe> Language A language of the resource Spanish Community Ecuador Education Identity Lawrence Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Audio Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Kansas City, Kansas Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Beatrice (B) Marta (M) B: Recollection of my childhood is growing up on 25th Street in Kansas City, Kansas, and it's the Argentine district. That particular district–our street had nothing but children on it. There…there were I'd say I was trying to think of how many houses and it was just like a ridiculous amount, like 30…30 plus houses on both sides. M: And which [unknown] are we in right now? B: We are in Argentine. M: Not decade…What year? B: This is like when I was five, so I–I'm 66 now. So that was 61 years ago. I was not quite in school yet, but I–I remember all the houses. And the one thing my mom always…I have eight brothers and sisters and my sister after myself passed away at the age of 17 months. B: So there we..I have seven living brothers and sisters, five girls and two boys. And at that time there was only me and the younger sister. B: And I remember all the kids and we could go out and play at the homes…were so totally different in that we didn't even lock our doors. I didn't know that, but I knew that the doors were always open and at night we didn't even lock’em. B: And my dad worked…There was on the corner of 20…I lived on 25th Street…so the corner of Strong [Avenue] and 24th was a steel plant and that's where my father worked for years and years and years. B: And the kids would go out to play around lunchtime. And when that whistle blew at four o'clock, we knew we had to be home. Four o'clock if we weren't home, we were in trouble because we all ate together. That's the one thing I remember is all eating together as a family. We may not have liked what we were eating, but that's what we're going to eat. B: But as I got older and I went into school–there was a school, a Catholic school right across the street. So everything was close to–the school was just down the road, not even a half a block away. B: There was a local grocery that's where most of–all our groceries were bought because we didn't have the stores like we do now, where you can go from Price Chopper, Kroger, wherever these stores, and we'd go out and play. B: But the interesting part about all of us playing is that we had enough for a couple of teams, baseball, which is what we played. The people down the street and across. So a caddy corner to where we live, a cornfield, somebody planted a cornfield. So in order to get to the ballfield, which was on 24th street, we'd have to run through the cornfields and I don't know what it was about it, but we could have walked, but we always had to run through these cornfields because I think we watched too many scary movies. B: But we'd get there. We’d play and then [at] four o'clock, the whistle would blow because it seemed like before you knew it, it was done. And we were back at home eating dinner. B: We lived in the–we were the second house on–on the west side of 25th Street. But like I said, we had–we had neighbors. It was–she was an older lady, but all her grandkids were always out there. So she practically raised your grandkids, which was very typical of a lot of parents–grandparents, they had their grandkids. Kinda like it is now. A lot of kids are being raised by their grandparents, but they were always at our house. B: Mom would say, well what's more, one more mouth to feed. But we thought we lived in a humongous house. We had a small porch. So of course, my desire is always to have a small porch, which I still don't have. But I have a deck in the back. B: But we–we–we would–we'd eat dinner and it just seemed like all we–we couldn't go out to eat…play afterwards because you start getting dark. And if we did, it was right in that…around the yard. But I mean, I'm not kidding you. That's the street that had the most kids. The kids were like–each family had at least five kids. I would say one of the families down the road, the Monroe family had 12. So they can have a baseball team all on their own. B: But we grew up with a lot of these kids. Lot of them were not my age. My cousins were my age, but I mean, there was [sic] houses all up and down the street. And lot of them –1965 is when they rebuilt that area, urban renewal came in and my family moved from 25th Street to 26th and Metropolitan [Avenue], and that's where my mother still lives now. So they've got a brand new house. B: I tell everybody when I because I–went to I went to St. John the Divine School for a couple of years. And then it was, well, of course, Catholic schools have always been schools which pay for and my folks could not afford to send me there. So I went to the elementary school which is three blocks down. It's still there. And then I finished there. B: In the meantime, I went and I graduated from Emerson [Elementary School] and I went to the middle school, which was Argentine middle-school, which is now it used to be the high school, but it's fifth grade and then it was sixth grade, you would go to the middle school. And I was one of the last…last to graduate from Argentine High School in 1972 before it became JC Harmon. B: But my friends, they didn't live on my same block because they were all either older or younger. But I had a girlfriend on 24th street and a girlfriend on 26th Street that we came and back then they had alleys so you would come across the alley and it wasn't like crossing streets. You wouldn't have to worry about getting run over or anything. B: So we hung out together, which to this day we're still friends. We see each other. Well, before all this [Covid-19 pandemic] happened, we were seeing each other once a month, getting together for lunch or breakfast or something. And they have families of their own and grandkids. B: Now, I’ve…I've been married for 33 years, but we do not have any children. I have lots of nieces and lots of nephews. We have…I think we have 17 nieces and nephews and 11 great grand nieces and nephews? On my side. Yeah. And my husband is–his family is all in Mexico City and he's got three-bit three. Let's see. He's got two brothers and a sister. And they have three…six…nine. So he's got like ten…ten nieces and nephews. M: So are you in pretty good touch with all these nieces, nephews? B: We just talked to my, uh, my nephew in Cancun. We were calling them about the hurricane to make sure he was okay. He said We're waiting for Delta. And I said, Oh, the plane? He started happy that the hurricane is it Why are you waiting? Because there's that the name of it he goes, Yeah, they used up all the letters of the alphabet. B: And I told my husband, Oh my God, I can't believe I did. That. It was Delta Airlines. B: Yeah, we still keep in touch. He does have a brother that moved here and he’s in Independence [Missouri]. We don't see him. We haven't seen them very much since all this would pretty much stay away from everybody. B: The only one [person] I see is my mom because she's–she's 89. And so for about two to three months nobody saw her. We were too worried that anything was going to happen. And I told my sister, you know, I'm at home all the time. I don't go anywhere. There's no reason why can't; my mom's going nuts. B: So I see her two or three times a week. I'll go down there and I go say “come, let’s take a ride.” So we'll take a ride and it's kinda helped her with her sanity. I think if I wasn't able to get in my car and go and just take a ride. I'd go nuts too. Yeah. Yeah. B: But it's…I see it so different when we're growing up. I mean, we did what they told us to do. These are kids. Back then…We all–we all married. And my wife, I have a brother who got divorced and then a sister who got divorced and we were all so devastated–because at that time, divorce was not one of the things that you saw that much, you know–but it was something it was it was a big step for me because being the eldest of all of them, I thought, you know, why should somebody be in something that they're not happy with? Life is too short. B: So I mean, it's, it's a lot of things change. But one of the things I'd like all my nieces and…I'd love for them to carry on the tradition of food. A lot of–some of the younger ones don't know how to cook. Now I do have one niece that cooks up a storm. She makes us look bad. B: But they…and we are all married too different…in different I married a Mexican, my sister married a Cherokee Indian. We've got all kinds of nationalities. And so it's different and you've learned a lot of different things. You may not like everything, but you either–you…don't have to live with them. You know, the hard part is living with somebody. So it's been interesting, but we've all learned. B: Just recently within the last couple of years. Well, we get along really well, [my] brothers and sisters. We have our arguments, but then it's–it's over. It's not anything that we're mad for years For anything like that. But within the last couple of years, we've–we've gotten together once a month to eat: we’ll go someplace and eat–just all the siblings. We’ll take my mom with us. B: And when–when the pandemic started, I still have a sister that says I'm not going anywhere. I'm not going to go on scared. She's scared. Well, I said I understand that you just have to be careful who you are around. And so we–we've been ordering from local places and we bring it into the house and they come over to–will go to their houses. B: And next, as matter of fact, next…Sunday, we're gonna get together at one of my youngest sisters’ [house]. The next to the younger sister it’s her turn. So we're gonna go to her house and have–I don't know what we're having yet. I didn't even ask her. Usually I'm the first to ask because I wonder what? She's going to have stuff and we're all going to go over there and it's really nice because even the boys go. B: And lot of time…You know, when my dad passed away in 2011…and he…the only thing he asked is that we take care of mom, which, you know, it was kinda like a given but he had to hear it. And he [unknown] the boys. Once he heard it from the boys, he was okay and he passed on. But the boys… B: All the girls have said we are so amazed that the boys have taken on the responsibility that they had because they were anything mom wants or needs, come and mow the grass and all that is done. B: But for years it's only been a year-and-a-half, but before that, somebody has always stayed with her. B: We have a sister that got divorced a few years back and so she went in to stay with my mom. She's there so we don't stay like every…if somebody was there every night. But it wasn't something that was a burden for us because we were just we…were raised that way, you know? B: I think I see a lot of the younger kids where it would be hard for them to do that. Because they carry around. My sister says “My kids already said that they're going to put me in a nursing home. I'm going to kick their butts.” B: I am I–I told my sister, my youngest sister, go, what am I gonna do? I said, I don't have kids. There's nobody to take care of us. And she says…She goes, “I'm going to take care of you and Ryan, her youngest, is my god son. She says “he's going to take care of me. He's already told me.” I said I've got all these kids are going to take care of me, so I don't think I have to worry. B: But I–I–I want to in growing up, I was used to being around just my area. Argentine was just the area. I thought that's all that existed. I had no idea that there was Turner. I had no idea there was Missouri. I had no idea. B: And when I went to high school. We ventured out to the Turner one day and got caught by truancy officers. But we told him we just took the wrong turn. I guess they are more vulnerable than we thought and we–we went back to school, but it was fun. B: I mean, I can't say I never skipped school because I did my mom [unknown] does and you thought I didn't know but I did. So we the girls say my girls, I know they're gonna do the things I did right there. B: So from–from high school, I got a scholarship, full ride scholarship, and I went to Pittsburg State University. I graduated with an accounting degree. First semester was really rough for me because I've never been away from home. I always wanted to call home. And back then you had to pay for your phone calls. Mom says, I remember her telling me one day, “We love you but you can't call the time. I can't collect want me anymore.” B: But it wasn't that it was just time for me to fly off. And then next, that was the first semester. Second semester, I didn't even come home because by then I was used to it and it was okay. And she was worried that I'd flown the coop. B: But I think part of my first semester [of] college was hard. I lived in a dorm. I had a roommate. She didn't like me. And I thought, why doesn't she like me? You know, she was a white gal and I thought “must be because I'm Mexican.” I mean, because people said, “Well, you gotta be careful because when you go away, people are not going to say, oh, you're different.” B:And so she…what ended up happening is that…she moved out of the dorm and I couldn't understand why that was one of the things that devastated me a lot because I thought I don't understand. B: And all the other girls were white girls from little small towns and I had no idea people lived on a farm with chickens. But I got to meet them, we'd go and stuff. B: But so next–the following semester, this girl that moved out came to see me. And she wanted to apologize for her moving out. So I want to know why you did it. I mean, what happened? Is it because I'm Mexican, Is it because I want to know because I'm out here in the wilderness not knowing what the heck. B: She says, Well, I had a boyfriend, she had a boyfriend. And Pittsburg State University down in Pittsburgh, Kansas is Bible Belt–Baptist Bible Belt country. She said “you weren't Baptist.” I said “What?” She said “you weren't Baptist.” She goes in and I could be that…I as like “I’m Catholic.” She goes, I know that was because you had to be Baptists. That was a shocker to me. I mean, I just, I guess I didn't realize at that point that there was different religions either. B: It was a big, big step for me and I had people, I've made all kinds of friends. I've got people that are, I don't know what religions there and it doesn't make any difference what they are. It's the person that they are. B: So I finally graduated from college, came back to come home and after being out on your own, it's hard. So I told my dad I–I didn't want to talk to him. But I said “Dad,” I said “I want to buy a house.” And go, Oh my God. Why do you want to buy a house? You know, you're not married. But what if I don't want to get married? I think it'd be a good investment, blah, blah, blah. So he finally agreed. B: And I bought my first little house. And this little house was the house that I met my husband like seven or eight years later, and I'd already been living in it. And when we got married, he moved in there and fixed up the house. The house looked totally different when he moved when we moved out, then when I moved in, but because he's very handy. Very, very handy. B: So like I said, we moved from there and when…I worked in different…my first job as a matter of fact, before I got married, my first job, I couldn't believe that I got a job. I've always been in the oil and gas industry. And I had my hiccups there too. You know people–people are not used to seeing different people of different colors that were used to the white people. And my boss, who was a very strong Catholic, so I thought, oh, we’re going to get along. B: Oh my God, he was–I remember one day he said “You are too gregarious” and I thought I don’t know that word. I was just freaking out. I didn't know what that word meant, so I had to go home and look at that. But what's wrong with being happy with talking and what's wrong with that word? But he was just…people would talk to me before they would talk to him and he didn't like that. He wanted to be the main one. But my years there…I was probably there 12 years and then they–the company moved to Houston. B: So from there I had various jobs but they've always been in the industry. My last job was–was the same way and they moved from…to…they all moved to Texas because that's the hub for the gas and oil industry. And I told…I was working this job. I told my husband, I…these hours are going to be crazy, but I mean, it's a job. Let's look. Working 60 hours a week. It was like crazy. And some days I'd see my husband's somedays I wouldn’t. B: I thought I was already 50 by then and I said, you know, I better start thinking about what I want because if I don't, then I might be by myself or might not and I have to decide what I want for me [sic]. B: So when I was like, I was by then I'd already been there [at the company] seven or eight years. I told my husband after the first of the year I'm going to look for a job. He didn't believe me. B: But I said I am. I said I think I need to be home more and I'm going to try to find something really close to the house. I know it's not going to pay well, but you know what? That's what I'm gonna do. B: So I went to go work for the Turner School District and my sister says, “Do you want to be a secretary?” I said “No, not really.” I said, “But I want my time to be busy.” I don't want to have to worry about three minutes. I'm well, probably five minutes from my house, three miles. I said I can do that for five or six years before I retire. And that'll be okay. I'll be alright. B: And at first, I didn't like it–because I thought I'm not doing anything that I learned all these years in school–but after the first year, my–my mind kept saying it's okay. You just do a check-in, you do it, get it done. So anyway, I wound up working there for six years and I retired two years ago…January it will be two years that [sic] I have retired. B: [Since then] I've been at home doing whatever I want to do and it's been great. It's been really good. But I tell my younger nieces, nephews, it's gonna be…because I have one that's a teacher and she says it's so hard. And the kids and I go, Yeah. It's hard…with I mean, I didn't have kids but I tell my mom, I don't know how you did it. You had eight kids and they have two kids and they're complaining. B: And she goes, well, I was always at home. I said, yeah, you were always at home, but I tell you what, I'd rather be working than at home with kids. I think it would be very hard. I only know because I took care of my brothers and sisters. Well, my mom was off doing–you know working sometimes. She didn't ever work out of the house but like she’d sew or she'd make food and sell it and or stuff like that. But somebody had to be watching the younger kids. So that was enough for me. B: But I'm trying to think of what else I can tell you. I don't know if I've gotten… M: I will totally agree with you that I would have gone completely insane if I hadn't been able to work while I [laughs]...had my kids. B: Well, I had my mom always says, Oh, but you made so much more money. I said, But you know, mom, it takes a while because you do you think make money, but you have to have your plan. And I said, making money at the end was not an important thing for me. I'm much happier now. B: And I didn't realize it because I thought, Oh, I'm gonna get this and this. I think I don't know. I never for a minute thought that I didn't want to retire. I mean, I knew I did, but I didn't know if we're gonna make it or not, but I think it's been–it's really been good. B: I have a friend who's 70 years old. She looks fantastic. You would never, never, never know. She looks…she looks like she's probably 60. I mean, she doesn't look bad at all. And she's scared to retire because she doesn't think she’s…she's on her own. I go, “You know what? You're gonna do fine” you're going…and she's been off for the last three months and we had a little talk last week and she says, “You know, I think I am going to be fine [cuts out] to go eat and I like to buy us have girl, you're not talking buddy. B: I used to go out all the time. I used to eat out everywhere. I said, “And you can still do that if you want. But you're going to find that that's not that important anymore and you don't have to buy something to wear at home–some days I don't even get out of my pajamas. You know, I did dress up today. Well, not dress up. Just put on a shirt… M: I love the flowers. B: Right? M: Yes. Can I ask you a couple of follow-up questions? B: Sure. M: Okay. So we were well into your story. You had talked about the different…like the different people that your siblings had married, Mexican somebody married a Cherokee and we were well into your story. I think we were past that before you actually identified yourself as Mexican. B: Oh… M: Could you talk a little bit about, like, that? Like did you think of yourself growing up as Mexican? Or what did you know about how your parents or grandparents or whoever came to Mexico…What did you know about that whole thing? B: Well, my mom…my grandmother was from Mexico. My grandfather was from Mexico. They were both Mexicans. And from what my dad tells us–told us because he's gone–is that they had money. They were–they were what they considered wealthy. And my grandfather would come here to work on the railroad. B: So that part always confused me. Okay. If you're wealthy…Well he [my father] says “We’ll you're wealthy if you're working the land.” And he says all his kids were little because my grandfather came to work, went back and he was killed. And my dad didn't talk about that for a long time, but he was five when my dad…when my grandfather was shot. And what they did was rob him of the land and the cattle. And so basically they had nothing at the end. B: I said, well, you know, dad and my dad was a very giving man. He was just whatever, I mean, his brothers…My dad was in [the] Korean War and he would send money. So there one day if he got married, he wanted to have money and grandma would say, “Well, we don't have money. Take it from what you need to.” Of course, when he came back, he says there was nothing. He says they used it all. B: You know, I kind of identify in that. Sometimes people think that because I use it as my husband's family, he came to the United States and they thought he was rich, but he wasn't rich. But he would always send money because it's, you know, hey, let's send him a little bit to get them by. B: So it was always that they've got that he had the money that he did and he didn't. And that's the way it was. My daddy said “I'd send money.” They used…and he's got money. He goes and then when I was going to come and get married, there was no money in the house. B: As a matter of fact, the house where my grandmother lived still stands. Probably built–oh gosh–it's gotta be over 70–80, now probably close to 100 years old now. And my dad got part of the house and grandma…grandma had step-children. And so the daughter was going to get some of that too. So when dad sold it, she got some, dad got some. But the house sold it and it was sold for twenty five thousand dollars. B: Can you imagine the house now? You can't even touch hours for less than two hundred thousand dollars. But the house is still standing and the guy that bought it got divorced, and so he didn't want to live there anymore. And my sister–my sister bought that house. And I want to say she's–she bought it for a little bit more than what he bought it for. I mean, he didn't–he didn't make money on it. He just got the money there. But she's got it and she's fixing it up and it brings back a lot of memories to see grandma's house there. B: But my dad would say that he lived–there was [sic] three–four families that lived in the house. The house is very small. It was like one bedroom, one bath, and there was… M: Where's the house? B: It's on 25th Street where we grew up in Argentine. And it was…there was a room, probably four by eight [feet], just real narrow, and they use that one as a bedroom. And mom said that's where she and dad stayed for a while before they moved out. But then dad had another brother and his wife, and I think it was only three families because my other aunt would only come during the day when he was working. They [would] drop them off and they were all there. B: The house is small…The living room was probably the biggest room of the whole thing, the bathroom small. And it's…it's perfect for one person, but not for a family of three different families. So I told my sister, I don't understand why you want to buy that house because I just want to keep it in the family. She's got a lot more tradition, she says, than we do. B: But when we moved down, when my dad bought the house down the street, he said that house sold for…he bought it for eight thousand dollars. I said “really, that's a lot of money.” I mean, I remember telling him that that's a lot of money. He said yeah, but, you know, we had one bedroom–one bedroom, living room, a bathroom, and then it was like a walk-through room to the kitchen. You had to walk through a bedroom to the kitchen. And that was it. B: I remember probably in the early–in the late sixties. I don't remember what dad put in a new bathroom and it was huge. I mean, there's the laundry room, the bathroom, and the bathroom that was there before became a bedroom for the boys because all the kids slept in one room; and mom and dad slept in the walk through. So we lived there most of our lives; we just thought that–that was the house. B: So I didn't–I've never really wanted a humongous house because I was comfortable in a smaller home like that. But we all live within probably six or seven miles of each other. So we're all very close. B: I have…well, actually there it's probably closer now because I had one [sibling] that moved closer in five miles within radius…all of us live within [this distance]. B: There was [sic] times when we were growing up where I moved out and then my sister went to school, came back…My brother moved to Nebraska for a few years at his job and then came back and decided he liked the area and he came and I both have accounting degrees. But he became a firefighter. And my other brother became a firefighter. B: The two brothers I have both were firefighters once getting ready to retire. The other one retired five-years ago now…and they're all younger because I am the oldest. And I have two sisters that are nurses. And I have a postal worker sister, and then the other one worked with me at the school district. B: So we all went to school. There's only one..two…one that was so close and didn't finish and we tried to get her but she didn't fish. She goes, “Eh, I'm okay.” Okay. But now she instills that in her children. M: [Unknown] that you're all you all went into basically professions that serve your communities. Fire fighter, postal worker, teacher. B: Yeah. Yeah. I–I would say I don't see you as an accountant. I love numbers. You know. I said I saw if there had been a degree and customer service or something like that, I probably would’ve. I think that's probably why I did so well in the district because I would see all the people coming in. And I enjoy people. B: And I think from–I always want to know what people were from. I want to know where they are. About their parents, siblings…because I had gone through things where I thought I don't understand why people don't…like I was telling you about my roommate. She did not like me. B: And, you know, the funny thing about her. She was so strict. She was a very strict Southern Baptist. And after her and her boyfriend broke up, she–she–she kinda went out of her own way. She was an opera. She became an opera singer, not professionally, but opera. B: And we were gonna get married. She said, I heard you're getting married. I want to sing at your wedding. I said “You do?” I said, Okay, I let her sing at my wedding and it was beautiful. She did a beautiful…opera at my wedding and she did a beautiful job. I have not seen her in probably 30 years now, but I've lost communication. She went to New York and she said, “I'm living with a guy, we're not married.” She goes, “I hope you don't get offended” that you're living with him, not me. I don't care. B: [Audio cuts out] but he's not–he's not–he's–he's…I can't remember what nationality which kinda threw me, but that's usually what happens with people that don't they they they don't know the world. She was sheltered in her own…kinda like I was in Argentine. You just learned to be around people and I've been with a lot of people they go they just insulted us…they didn’t insult me. I didn't say anything. I didn't take it personally. You know, I didn't take it personally because they're [the people who insult me] the dumb ones. M: But yeah. I mean, that’s fascinating that she wanted to sing at your wedding after she couldn't…Do you have no idea why she wanted to sing at the wedding? B: I think she probably thought, Hey, I treated her bad enough that I don't want her to think that way. B: And her family. Many times before that…No, after it was afterwards. I think twice I went to go see your family. Family was very nice. But I could tell I mean, I could tell that they weren't they were really surprised. And I said, “I don't think your mom or dad liked me.” No. No. But she says “What it is is they're not used to seeing.” She goes. B: Look, she lived. I can't even think of the name of the town because Pittsburgh, close to Pittsburgh is Joplin and then it's Oklahoma. But it's right before Oklahoma. Some[thing] Springs…Baxter Springs. She lived in a little town called Baxter Springs [Kansas]. I don't think they had any Mexicans or any kind of Hispanic groups. I think if they had blacks, it was would've been amazing. B: But I just recently…we went to my sisters. They go, we're gonna take a little road trip. You want to go? I said “Where are you guys going?” And they were going to go to Oklahoma and they're gonna go down and see the Pioneer Woman. I said, I know who she is, actually not one of my favorites, you know, I don't really wanna go. [My sisters said] “Oh, you need to get out.” [I said] “Well, let me let me know if you guys go,” because they plan stuff and then something falls through. B: So anyway, long story short, yeah, they were gonna go and I said, You know, I told my husband I think I'm gonna go ahead and go with them. I just need to get out. And he said, “Okay, go ahead and go.” I went… B: Well, my sister's roommate, I've met her before. And that's another one we've talked about her because she own…they own an ammunition plant in Winfield, Kansas, they have a lot of money. B: But you meet these people and to think down to earth. So down to earth, money is not one of the issues you can tell. But anyway, she–Sandy, my sister says, “Do you remember Noelle?” I said “Yeah, I remember her.” She says, “The only thing I asked you is don't talk politics.” I said “I'm not usually one that does.” I said, “You got it.” She goes “because, you know, they're not the same politics that we are Democratic Party or the Republican or Democrat.” She says, “We don't. We want this to be a fun-filled week.” And I said “You're telling me.” B: She goes, I know I'm going to tell my other sister that to us. Anyway, we go down there and it will go to a city called Pawhuska, Oklahoma. I think the number I read the when we were going it was like 8500 people in the city. And my concern was staying at a hotel. So we rented an Airbnb and we met owners. They're the nicest people. I mean, I was prepared to see how they were going to react to us coming. B: This is the first time in all the years that I've lived that the reaction was–there wasn't a reaction. It was just like regular people and it was kind of a good thing. It's more like there's more of a mixture now. People are just used to it, I guess. B: [Then] Sandy, my youngest sister, says, there…Noelle’s mom's coming. You guys have never met her. She goes, she's really nice, very nice lady. She originally was the owner of the ammunition plant, but as she's getting older because she's probably in her late seventies, maybe, she’s passing it on to her daughter. She says she's going to meet up with us. So we met up her and in [the restaurant] it walks is older guy–older man. B: And Sandy says, Do you know who that is? I said No. She says “that's Chuck Drummond.” I said “Chuck Drummond?” And she goes, “Yeah, you know who Ree Drummond is?” I said “The Pioneer Woman?” She says “That’s her father-in-law.” I said, “What's he doing here?” She says, “I just found out Noelle’s mom is dating him.” I said, “Oh my God.” She goes, “So just be nice to him.” She always tells me that because she knows I'm very direct. B: So we meet [sic] him. Oh, my god, this man is he was just…I was amazed because he's older, so I expected, you know, a little bit of a what's the word I want to say? Maybe he was going to be more…I can't think of a word. We weren't going to be as appealing to him, you know. B: No. No. He was just as accepting. That's what I want–that’s the word I wanted. He was the nicest man and he was…that was on a Thursday night and he says, We were just going to be there Friday and come back home. And he says, “You know what?” He says “Tomorrow, I want you girls to be ready at eight o'clock, I’m picking you up and we're gonna go for a little ride.” Okay. B: We're all ready. He took us to tour the whole ranch and where they lived. The family cemetery, which to me, I thought the family cemetery…how many people went? And we didn't get to meet his [daughter-in-law]…the Pioneer Woman because she was filming. He took us to dinner. He took us to breakfast first and then we had dinner at…there's a pizza place that they own too, and he was the nicest man. B: And I think to myself, you have 11 thousand acres of land. I complain because we have a quarter of an acre. There are people that…He talked about his ranch hand that he had. He said, “Do you like Mexican food?” and I started laughing. I said, “Are you serious?” He said, “You know how to make enchiladas?” I said, “Yes.” And he says “Girl, I'm coming to your house” and I started laughing at that. Maybe he doesn't think we're Mexican–that was my first thought [laughs]. B: What's my first thought? But he says, “I love those” and I said, “You know what, you can come to Kansas City. We're going to show you” and I told the girls, if they come to Kansas City, they’re going to have a feast because they're not the only ones that can show us around. But it was–it just depends. There's a lot of people that don't. But I mean, I remember I'm going back back [in time] again. B: But in high school, I didn't really have a lot of friends that were anything but Mexican. They were all–we hung around in a little group. Jesse, who you've talked to before, him and I are godparents to one of his nieces. And I mean, we're just because–it's because it’s my best friend's brother. B: And we didn't hang out because he was always what I told you I was with [unknown]. I would tell him. But he's old in high-school. Three years is a lot of years. You are pretty much at the same age. So we didn't hang out together. He would see us and we'd say hi and all that. But he–he is. As the time has gone on, we've seen we've seen more and more of each other. We help in the same food kitchen and different things like that. B: But just recently he [Jesse] got an award and I posted it on Facebook. One of the girls that I went to school, this girl I haven't seen them in about 40 years. I talked to them. I always talked to the people in school, but I didn't hang out with them. And now it's more…Oh, let's get together, let's do this. But come to find out this one girl married a Hispanic man. The other one didn't. It's the same boyfriend she had from when she was in… B: But as the years have gone on, all the groups were segregated. Now they're all together. B: I remember my dad used to say, it's easier if you marry your own kind. And I thought what is he talking about? But as the years went on, I understood. He said it's you know, it's hard enough to maintain a marriage to keep it intact. And if you have different…if you have somebody who's a different nationality and they have certain wants and likes or–it's harder. It's harder. That's what he meant. B: But it's been…I've had a good life. I haven't–I can't complain. The only thing I would have wanted children, but it wasn't meant to be. So that did not happen. M: Bea, I am so, so sorry, but I have another meeting at three. B: Sure. No problem. M: Don't leave yet. Hang on. B: Okay. M: I have a quick question and then I have one last thing I want you to say before three. B: Is it almost three? Yep. Oh, my God, it’s almost three. M: But we can always do a follow-up to send you an email asking for, like if you're doing this reunion with your six sisters, I'd love to see a picture of you and your sisters today and some old pictures maybe of you and your sisters to compare. That would be wonderful. B: Okay. M: Quick question is: Where was your grandfather shot and why? B: He was shot in Mexico on his ranch. And he was shot because I think my dad said that they were…[My grandmother was shot] because of the sale of cattle or something that he [my grandfather] wouldn't sell them. Because they know my dad actually know–knew who had shot him and he [the murderer] was still living. B: And I–I remember asking my dad, do you want to meet him [the murderer]? He goes “No.” He goes “I don't.” So I would have wanted to I wouldn't want to say why. I mean, a lot of it is practically out of stupidity…somebody told me to or whatever. But yeah. M: And then my last question is can you repeat, now that we're recording, the recipe for the chilaquiles with red sauce and scrambled eggs? B: Sure. You're gonna do some tortillas, you're going to fry them up, I like to make little squares or triangles. Fry them up in a little bit of oil. Put them aside to drain. You're going to cut up some onion, cut up some garlic. I put a whole onion and I put a clove of garlic. And if I feel two cloves, so it's kind of guess…and you sautee them in the oil that's remaining. Not a whole lot of oil. It's not more than one-fourth of a cup. B: And then you add tomatoes. One can of tomatoes with, you can add your jalapenos however spicy you and I'm doing blend those up, pour them into the–your skillet, saute it until it's sauteed a little bit. B: Then you take…I would start off with four eggs and then maybe add, I'd say with the can [of tomatoes] four or five eggs. And you scramble them and scrambled into your mixture. And you can salt, salt it. And then just scramble. I like my yellows mixed really good [sic], you know? And then I add the chips at the very end. And you're good to go. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Beatrice Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Kansas City, Kansas Description An account of the resource Beatrice grew up in the Argentine District in Kansas City, Kansas with several siblings. Her mother passed away when she was very young and her father worked at a steel plant. Although the family was often busy, they always ate at least one meal together. She went to Pittsburg State University on a full ride scholarship and graduated with an accounting degree. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Late 1900s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Kansas City, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_rtqyu0gn" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_rtqyu0gn/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Beatrice Heartland Trimmed"></iframe> Community Education Identity Kansas City Mexico Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Audio Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Joohye Oh City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Brazil Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Lawrence, Kansas Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Caio (C) Joohye (J) C: So I actually, I'm living in the United States for a second time. C: So I did my master's here [Lawrence, Kansas] for two years. And I'm doing my PhD at Department of Spanish and Portuguese. So I've been here for four years, four-and-a-half, pretty much. J: And do you consider yourself an immigrant, you think? C: That's interesting because this is something that I asked myself all the time because officially I'm a non-immigrant. Right. When I look at my visa, when I look at my I20, that–that’s pretty evident that I am non-immigrant. C: But I consider myself an immigrant. I live here. I've been here for four years. I've been it's been my socials, It's been my life. It's been my reality nowadays and I don't even I don't really know if I'm ever going back home or if I'm leading this country because I'll be here for at least three or four years until 2020…maybe 2024, 2025. C: So yes, I consider myself an immigrant. J: And you also talked about [how] you receive the Fulbright and then that's how you arrived at Miami to teach. Can you explain or can you speak more about–Was there a Brazilian community in Miami or was there relate to or how–What was it like? C: So I–my experience was pretty unique because I–I thought I was gonna get a stipend and live wherever I wanted. But I had to live on campus. And that was a historically black university [HBCU]. C: So that was interesting in a way because I come from a city called Salvador, which is considered the largest black city outside of Africa; it has a huge black–Afro-Brazilian population. C: So I was looking forward to the sharing and exchanging, like, this cultural aspects with them. And that was very positive though in this way. But I–I had to live surrounded by students and I was a TA. So there was a hierarchy and I had to be aware of that. So I wasn't–I couldn't not fully…I could not make many friends, you know. C: Regarding the Brazilians, I actually met a couple Brazilians. But they were, let's say, I have this. Maybe it's, maybe it's some kind of prejudice. But many Brazilians who live in Miami, that's my perception, hey are like upper middle-class Brazilians are middle-class, upper-class Brazilians who have a different way of seeing life as I do. So I wasn't really into those people. C: So I did make a couple other Latino friends, friends with people from other Latin American countries. That was very nice. Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic. And I gotta improve my Spanish for sure. Yeah…so. C: But most of my social circle was related to school, which was the Afro–the African-American population. So that was a microcosm. And say, you know, my experience was more of a microcosm in that university than Miami itself. C: I would enjoy the city sometimes, like on weekends. But that was, you know, that wasn't part of my daily life. I would stay on campus most of the time. C: But that was positive. I liked it so much. That's why I'm doing my minor in African Studies. African African-American studies. J: Yeah, That is wonderful. Then I saw that in a University Daily Kansan article that you, you do lead or you lead the Capoeira Club? Is that–Do you still continue to? C: I'm actually the president of the club. So we got some funds to hire an instructor. So we have classes twice a week with this instructor from Brazil. So yeah, I was the one who tried to get the funds–the funding for that. C: So yeah, I'm still leading the club and I'm also leading a Brazilian Student Association, BRASA, at KU. So I'm leading both groups. J: And could you explain more about why you decided to become president–your involvement and or like was it so that more people could be aware of these aspects of Brazilian culture? C: Well…yes. First of all, to be honest, it was because I wanted to spread my wings. I was like, I want to meet–I want to be able to meet other people from outside of the department at a personal level. C: But yes, I did want–and I do want to promote Brazilian culture. Is this something–this something I'm very aware of. C: I try to talk about Brazil as much as I can. You know, whoever I meet, whoever I meet. I try to talk about the country, about the cities, about this dynamics of race, politics. So this is something that I do all the time. C: It's political in a way because I do that in my work and my papers. I tried to include Brazil as much as I can. I try to organize events like parties, academic events. We did organize something interesting last semester. And we want to organize a Brazilian week next semester. So it is political as well. C: So yes, I have several motivations at a personal level and also at a political level. J: Does this also sort of translate over to the Lawrence Public Library? You did the Cunetacuentos or the Multicultural Storytime? Would you be able to explain a little bit more about that? C: Oh yeah. I love that. They actually have done so many things. I’ve done so many things at KU, now that you're asking. Yeah, there was a public library and the project if–as far as I remember, it was a project GRASP. If I'm not mistaken, which is the Graduate Association of Students of Spanish and Portuguese. Then some of the grad students would take turns going there and volunteer to tell to do the storytelling. So I would do that in Spanish. C: But then there was the Multicultural Storytime. And I remember, I think it was a, it was sponsored by the library. And I volunteered to tell stories in Portuguese. So I would do that. I would tell stories in Portuguese and Spanish. C: So basically half an hour on Saturdays, once in awhile, yeah. C: So, yeah, so that was a very good way of also teaching a little bit of the vocabulary. I would try to show a little bit of the vocabulary before telling the story to all the vocabulary as if I were in a classroom. So the parents and the kids would have fun and would learn and then I would do the storytelling after this. J: Okay, so we covered the Multicultural Storytime, the Cuentacuentos, the Capoeira club. Also, you did a samba, forró, and Zoom class for dance. Dancing? C: Yes. That's what I'm saying. Like now that you're asking, like, I have realized that I've done a lot of stuff here. C: Yes, some samba, forró,and zumba. It was an initiative of BRASA, Brazilian Student Association, and LAGO, Latin American Graduate Organization. C: So we would take turns, some of the students would take turns teaching whatever music style they would know. So I would teach the Brazilian [dance] styles once a month. So the class that would take place once every two weeks, and then we will take turns. C: So I would teach once a week, once a week, once a month. I taught samba; I taught forró, which is kinda resembles salsa a little bit, and Afro-Brazilian of music. Yeah, different Brazilian styles. C: And this is actually something that I want to resume because we had to stop because of the pandemic. Actually even after COVID, we will teach on Zoom for a couple of months, but then we suspended it. C: This is something I really want to resume. I want to bring this up by next semester and see who would like to volunteer to resume these activities. So again, this is me being political about spreading as much as I can about Brazilian culture. J: We've mentioned a lot of your own personal efforts in order, like you said, to promote on a personal and political level, like you said. But how do you, what do you do for yourself to connect with Brazilian culture? Do you still cook traditional foods or listen to the radio stations or read Portuguese newspapers? Or are these events also a way [to connect]? C: I'm actually, I'm actually strongly connected to Brazil because the first thing I do, after waking up, I put some podcasts. And then hear the news about Brazil. So much more into what's going on in Brazil, what's going on in the US, honestly. C: And especially because now we've been dealing with this president called Jair Bolsonaro; he is neo-fascist. Who is, you know–represents a disaster in Brazil, economic disaster, a political like, health disaster because of COVID. C: So I've been trying to follow as much as I can, you know, to keep up with what's going on there as much as I can. So I watch the news every day. I listened to podcasts. I listen to Brazilian music. C: Actually–basically, this is my daily workout. You know, before at night. I usually, I like this a lot. So I have different playlist with different choreographies, dance routines of Brazilian styles and stuff. So this is something that I do everyday. I keep looking for new songs, for example, new choreographies. C: So that's how I basically, this is basically how I worked out. I didn't say it like. C: And I'm always in touch with my friends. I'm always talking about friends and family. C: [On] social media. I follow lots of politicians and follow, lots of artists follow. Yeah. So I can, I'm still very connected to Brazil. And I'm actually here in the US because I–it's not because it was not just a dream. You know, It was not to live the American dream, to be honest, it was because the country [Brazil] is going through an economic, very serious economic crisis. So I just felt like I had to go somewhere else to be able to thrive. C: So, but I'm totally connected. And that's why I have this Brazilian Student Association. I have weekly meetings. I organized weekly meetings for people to get together and speak Portuguese. And I always expect to see Brazilians there, you know? C: So it's a way to be connected to other Brazilians. And it's been successful because, you know, I always have the chance to make a good crowd, you know, every, every week. So yes, I've pretty much connected. C: And this is something interesting because a lot of people in Brazil, they are surprised when they talk to me after a long time they get there. They're still surprised that I have a strong that I still have my strong local accent from my hometown because they expect me to meet other resilience. C: With time. I would lose my accent, but I don't, I haven't. I still have this strong local accident from my hometown and I make sure I keep it, you know, I really want to preserve it. This is my–part of my identity. J: And I know we touched on this with the other previous things we've talked about. But what would you say about maybe the Brazilian community within Lawrence, like greater Lawrence outside the University of Kansas. J: Is there, would you say, a Brazilian community? Or, how– how would you define it? C: I would say Brazilian community. Yes, we do have a very tiny Brazilian community in Lawrence. We have I don't know how I don't actually know how many Brazilian students are at KU. C: But I know of 30 students. 30 students, which is not a lot. But yeah, we have this very small community. But I know that in Overland Park, Olathe, in these towns surrounding Kansas City, there are more Brazilians. C: There is this Brazilian Academy, which is a studio where they offer [indistinguishable]. So lessons–Cappoeira lessons, Brazilian dance in different music styles. Dance classes. C: So there are many Brazilians who live in the area. So yeah, we do have a community and presented community here, but really tiny comparatively. If you compare it to Miami or Boston. C: Boston has the largest amount of Brazilian immigrants in the country. So it is pretty tiny, but just sad, like I wish there were more. J: And, you mentioned how you were able to bond with the other Africans and African Americans in Miami. And so I was wondering, were you able to form other bonds that were similar across cultures, across identities within Lawrence as well? C: Yes, because actually, this is what my department–actually my department, there are people from–this is what I've heard. Like in the department of Spanish and Portuguese. They're our best students for several countries, even from the, even from the United States. C: You know, like because there are so many people from so many different countries. So here the Department, Spanish and Portuguese will have, I have colleagues from Korea, Colombia, from Spain, Panama, the U.S., Uruguay, Argentina. Jewish Americans. Christians. C: So, yes. And outside of the department as well, I have friends from the Middle East, from Asia. East Asia, from–from Eastern Europe, Russia. So yeah, I really like the fact that I have so many friends from so many different countries. C: But unfortunately, I don't know many African-Americans here. I don't think there are as many. But yeah. J: Thank you for that comparison. This is, I guess, the final question and sort of a wrap-up question. J: Wth you–since you've had all these exciting experiences, I'm doing the Capoeira and also living in Miami and then Salvador, going back to Salvador, Brazil. And now you're here in Lawrence. Do you have any advice or wisdom that you would like to let the younger generation know or just other individuals? C: Yeah, actually, this is what I tell everybody. There isn't a perfect place to live. There isn't a place of dreams. I don't think you will find happiness in a place; it is not the place itself that will make you happy, but the circumstances you– C: That's what I told my friends in Brazil. That they can be really happy where they are. But they can be really unhappy where they are. C: If they come to the U.S. they can be really happy, but they can be really unhappy. It will depend on their legal status, will depend on the city where they're going to live, on the opportunities that they will have. C: So it will depend. C: I know Brazilians that are miserable in the U.S.; I know Brazilians who don't want to leave this country. I know Brazilians who are indifferent. They are okay. They will be fine with any work: with whatever, you know. C: And I know Brazilians who are really happy because they have good jobs, have stability and I know Brazilians who are unhappy because they have no perspectives, they have no–they are poor. They live in a very violent zone; it will depend. C: So what I would tell this generation is don't try to escape, try to live abroad as a way to escape from–as a way of escaping from your sadness or whatever. You know, I don't think another place will necessarily make you happier. It will depend. There is no formula. This is what I tell everybody. C: I actually, I, yesterday I gave a speech to this group of fifth grade students in Brazil. And I told them this, you know, that a person can be really happy in Brazil because we have all their things, for example, I don't have my family here [in Kansas]. I miss my family. C: But I have stability. I have safety. I feel really safe here. I don't have to be afraid of robbers, because Brazil can be really violent. So there are pros and cons. C: So there is a Brazilian, there was a Brazilian singer. I don't know if that's..if he’s the author of this. But he would say that living in Brazil is good, but it sucks. Living abroad sucks, but it's good. I think that it was Tom Jobin. I might look it up eventually. C: So this is what I would say. You know, there is no secret formula. Each experience is unique. There are happy and unhappy experiences, good and bad experiences. This is what I would say. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Caio Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Salvador, Brazil to Lawrence, Kansas Description An account of the resource Living in Lawrence, KS at the time of this interview, Caio is a student from Salvador, Brazil. He first arrived in the United States to teach Portuguese in Florida where he remembers being able to connect to a diverse group of individuals because he grew up with a region that is racially and culturally diverse. Caio briefly went back to Brazil before arriving in Lawrence, KS. He is enthusiastic about sharing Brazilian culture with the community and is the president of the Capoeira Club, a member of BRASA, the Brazilian Students Association, has led Brazilian dance lessons and was part of the Lawrence Public Library’s Cuentacuentos and Multicultural Storytime. His advice for the younger generation is to focus on doing the best you can within your circumstances. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_gxmh9bhb" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_gxmh9bhb/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Caio Interview"></iframe> Brazil Community Education Identity Lawrence