1 10 49 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Radhia Abdirahman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Moutarro Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Moutarro (M) Radhia (R) M: Yeah, I can start from the beginning of everything, beginning of my journey. Maybe that might give you a picture of how I came here or why I came here. R: Mhmmmm. M: I was born. My–my parents are from Guinea. So my dad came from Guinea. So I would say immigrant to somebody else. And but my mom was also originally from Guinea but was born and raised in Senegal. M: My dad came to Senegal to find work to help to support himself and with my mom. And then I was born and raised in Senegal. M: And when I was going to school, I was in–I was in a classroom– Senegal is a very interesting country where people can come from all over West Africa. So that's the, that's this, the unique thing about Senegal–the Ivory Coast can also be like Senegal. M: But in my class, we used to say like who, who is a “real” Senegalese based on the last names, you know, I'm saying? So that was something that we used to play around with, joke around. And we would find that half of the class, actually, they're not from Senegal. So they are from Guinea, Mauritania, Mali, Gambia, Burkina Faso. Is some people from Niger or maybe Benin– R: Yeah M: But, you know, like we used to dream of like like, you know, after our school, after our schooling in Senegal, we used to dream to go to France. M: Any–any African who is from a Francophone country, it would mean the same thing, like you finished your high school [then] you want to go to France to do university there. M: That was our dream. That was my dream and [was the dream for] many of my peers. M: I was very fortunate to be able to have an English teacher who studied in England, but came back to Senegal and became an English teacher. So from all the whole, the whole middle school he was my teacher. M: And then he was not only just a teacher but a friend of us because he would invite us into his house. And once we go to his house, there's no more Wolof–Wolof is a local language–or no more, no more French, no more any other language but English. M: But that's when we got the love of English. M: That's how I get the love of speaking English and like trying to understand the language. And of course, the United States. M: I've never thought about England because even though he went to England, but my, my brain never felt like I was supposed to go to England or I want to go to England for me, it was the US. M: But first of all, it was France. France was the easiest way because we didn't pay [for] school. System is like a public university and then you can get a scholarship to go to France. But that was our dream. M: So when we have our baccalaureate, which is like finished high school and stuff, I didn't get a chance to go to France. M: But some of my friends, when they got the scholarship, they went, some of them paid for their own. They go and I was like [unknown]...you know, I gotta do it. That's fine. That's not the end of the world. M: So I'm Muslim. So also, being a Muslim is very important because for me, it helps me with believing in if this thing doesn't happen, it means that God didn't allow it. R: Yeah. M: You know, that's that's–I'm guessing you [Radhia, the interviewer] are a Muslim. R: Yeah, I understand you're saying– M: You understand what I mean. M: So that's helpful for me in terms of my well-being in my future with everything. And that's kept me from exploding or not thinking about something else is possible. M: So I went to the university. I wanted to do English after car[?]I want you to do.. M: I wanted to go to the History Department to learn history and stuff because I'm very I love history. In our system, French system is not the best one, so I hate it, but that's the way it is. The French system where you, you don't get to choose what you want to do in you're in, when you go to university, they choose for you. R: Okay [in agreement]. M: You got to have the choice to have three options when you are in high school. And that's it. And then they choose, you're going to go here because based on your grades, this is why you should go. And I– R: Really interesting… M: It is–It's this. I just can't accept that. It's just for me, it's just terrible. You don't get to choose where you wanna go. So they they they because my grades in English was way higher than everything else. So they sent me to the English Department– R: Mhmmm M: Fine, you know. But I didn't I wasn't happy when I accepted it because there is no choice for me. So I was learning I was doing English, but didn't succeed, didn't finish the two-year because I did two years. Strikes and a lots of craziness. M: So I stopped. M: I just spent two years and I stopped. M: So I went back to my hometown and then started looking for a job since I could speak a little English. I said “Oh, why not American NGOs?” M: So I found a job working, teaching human rights with an amazing American. Endure. M: And that's where these American spirit started to build up in my head. And then my family was also host family for Peace Corps volunteers. That's another aspect of my life that changed everything. I wanted it to Mike to come to the US. M: I started to send applications to apply for college in the US. So some accepted me, but I didn't understand really how it works. I just applied and apply. They accepted me but I didn't know what to do. M: That time there was no internet, so yeah. I didn't know what to do seriously, so I didn't fill up, you know. M: But I just wanted to come here to study. M: And finally I got another job with Peace Corps and then another job with another study abroad program. That's when I have to have American students coming from all over the university–American universities studying abroad in Senegal: SIT School for International Training that is based in Vermont. That's how I started working with Americans. And for many years, that's what I was doing. M: And then I would just like, okay, now I am in it. I was still interested in coming here to study. So that's how I try to apply for many in many schools. But SIT also has a grad school. So and then they told me If you spend seven years with SIT working with the World Learning Program you are eligible to have a scholarship to come to the US. M: That's when I'm like, Yes, my time is coming [laughs]. R: [laughs] M:-- Like yeah, So I went I went started I started paying for a private school, like night night school, like a late night school to do finish my bachelors degree, so I did it. And then after seven years, I applied to come to the US. And that's how I–I ended up getting a scholarship to come here. M: But it was not full scholarship, it was half of the money. So someone who doesn't really understand the system here. So I came here but didn't really understand what I'm doing. So I had even though I had an advisor, everything that was helping me. M: I was here in Vermont. I got–I was an RA helping people, but still there was something missing that I didn't understand in terms of how to pay the rest of the money [tuition]. So I ended up getting a private loan. But to be able to get a private loan, I needed a cosigner. M: One thing I didn't know, you know, but I was looking for someone to help me… M: Like in Africa when I need a cosigner is pretty easy. You know, that's one thing that in Africa we help one another, no problem. M: But here it's different. Because if you co-sign someone, it means you have to be responsible of everything. If the person doesn't pay, you going to pay. M: So I didn't understand how heavy that was. You know, every time I ask someone, they said “No, I can do it. I cannot do it.” So I didn't understand why people couldn't help another person. M: You know what? It was very, very complicated until someone I worked with bringing students to Senegal who got just understand this African spirit helped me really like cosign me. Even though she accepted to cosign me. She had the flew from–fly from Seattle to New York to meet me, just talk to me about cosign. So complicated. So but I was happy that I could find someone. And until today I'm paying. M: So after my, my two years and half in the US studying, I went back home because before I left, I got a job with another study abroad programs, CIEE. I don't know if you're familiar with CIEE, Council on International Education Exchange. They are based in Portland, Maine. M: So I got a job offer, so I went back home. I started working as a program assistant in and teaching also French and Wolof and other stuff. Um, until then. But I was married before with an American–a half Senegalese half American woman. M: But I didn't use that to come. I use the I came to study, but after that I have to leave. I left but she was supposed to come with me, but she didn't come in and blah, blah, blah and and divorce blah, blah. M: So then I was in Senegal working, but it was hard for me to go back. And then have same because I wasn't working with Senegalese people. Even though I was in an American program, but it was hard for me to– M: One thing in Africa it is like…Here. It's just like go, go, go, go like, you know, you do. But there is just like people take the time. Yeah. You know, like they laid back. They don't go like if you'd give them an appointment at one they come one, whatever or sometimes– R: In African time… M: Yeah. It was very hard for me to dislike. And I have a friend that we were in middle school together, we're dreaming together. He's in, he's a teacher at Pomona College in California. So he was like asking me every now and then how I was doing and like, I'm trying to just get back home, but it's not easy to be back because people don't really want to do things and I just wanted to go, but it's not easy. He's like, Oh, you should come back. I'm like, No, I'm not, I'm done. I don't want to have any American woman anymore. Like I'm like, He's like No, no, no, I know someone, blah, blah. M: So that's how I was hooked up with another American woman who is a psychologist. That's how I ended up coming back here to live in 2019, even though every year I was coming back here during the summer to teach French at the Concordia Language Villages in Minnesota. M: But when I got this, the fiancee, I came here in 2019 to stay. M: So and since then I'm here teaching French in a private school in Portland, Oregon. M: But I'm about to move to Baltimore because I got another another job there, a full-time job in another private school teaching French. M: So this, this, this is my story, kind of, of how I ended up coming here. M: It was kinda, you know, very complicated, but that was one dream. For me, it was come and study. It didn't happen the way I wanted it. But it happened anyway. So I'm happy about that. But that's life. That's me. M: Yeah. If you have any other questions, anything like me to clarify anything else, I'm very open to answer any– R: I mean, I guess like because you do a lot of moving around. How do you feel about the community that you have in the United States compared to the community that you have back home? Like what are some key differences? I guess? M: You know, like it's over the time, working with Peace Corps, working with SIT study abroad, working with CIEE study abroad, working with Lakeside School in Seattle, bringing students to Senegal, working with the Concordia Language Villages, working and then the studying in Vermont. Also teaching online language like wall of French and polar, and also helping some time doing some work, cultural stuff. It helped me create my own community. M: So I am so I'm very fortunate to be able to know in each state you name. I am. I know someone or I have a friend there. M: So when I was coming to I came I came to accurately I came to Portland in 2017 to visit. So and my my wife now, the fiancee at that time was like, “Wow, you know, a lot of people in Portland.” So I had a community already important that I, that I had, you know, those who spent time in Senegal, those who understand me. M: So when I came here was easy because those people are inviting me to show me around, to show me the city of Portland, to just welcome me. Which is very important because Portland is a very white state and it's a very liberal state, but also very like you can meet all crazy places people, and it happens every now and then. M: But I was so lucky to have people that can welcome me, sometimes invite me to their homes. I have someone that I know from the Peace Corps group. His wife is Senegalese. They live in Portland. And before I arrived, I was communicating with him like I'm coming. And then when I arrived, he invited me at home, they cook Senegalese meal. And it was nice to have that. For me, it was very helpful to have that to create my own comfort to avoid being being–how do you say the word English being the word? M: Being–When you miss your house, when you miss your home…? R: Like homesick. M: Homesick. Thank you for that–being homesick and stuff. But also there is a Senegalese community here. And there is also a mosque here. So it's like a walking distance from me. And it was very important to have a mask around. So every Friday before the Covid I was going there. M: There's one Senegalese man who is part of the community, so he's an iman. And that was very important for me because I would go and see Muslims that are like me. So we can understand, we can speak the same language. M: Also having a Senegalese community where I can go to and then spend time. But it's very difficult because here everybody has something to do. Here, everybody works…or everybody. M: You know, it's not easy to just extend a girl. I would go I need to stay home. I was living in the car where I was by myself. But if I needed to see someone or spend time with people, I guess go out somewhere with the, the, the coffee seller from Guinea or from another city. You go then sit there discussing, chat and he can spend the whole time making tea, chatting, you know. But here you can have that. M: Or you can just like even my neighbors, I can't go to my neighbor like” Hello, can I come from tea? You know, it's not possible. So even though there's a, there's a guy here at Mexican guy is very nice. You know, every time I go out I see him like, yeah, yeah. You brother and blah, blah. But you can just go to his house. R: Yeah. M: In Senegal. You can do that. You can go. You don't have to call you, just go. And then they welcome you. M: You know, like it's impossible to do that here. Like yesterday. On Tuesday, I had a plumber who came here to repair the leaking thing and then it was about time to eat for me. So in my culture was like in my culture, you cannot eat when someone is in your house without you inviting the person. You got to invite the person. That's how we do. M: But I had to retract and it's like, Okay, it should I invite him? I think India is you don't do that. So sometimes I just can't do it because I'm like, okay, it can be offensive for some people. So I didn't do it. M: I had to go and hide even though he doesn't care: he’s American. But for me, my culture, it was hard to not invite him but also eat next to him while he's working. So that's something that I couldn't do. So I have to go. And in the other room, is it there? So that's one thing that is different from my hometown, my home country, which is very complicated here. M: Sometimes I can feel alone when my wife is at home–at work and I'm here by myself, you know, there's nothing to do. The only thing you can do is walk outside. Which is very difficult because the Senegalese people I know here or Africans are like far away from here. So they're in-office Portland, which is like 25-minute drive, something like that. So it’s– it's difficult. And sometimes when I want to go out and just spend time outside. I go and I take the bus because I don't have a car, so I go ahead and take the bus. M: But in Senegal, I, when I go and take the bus, I chat with people. But here you can, there are people who like… M: I remember in New York when I was in New York Greenlight internship, I was on the train and then it is like this big dude came for me. It was like, wow, these guys, you know, I'm saying like it's a black man like huge, tattoos everywhere. So I was impressed with these tattoos because I don't really, we don't really see tattoos in Senegal. For me, it was really like a man with tattoos. M: So I was looking at him, the tattoos and try to see what it means. And he sensed that I was looking at him. And he said “What the hell you looking at?” And then I was like ooooh I am in trouble [laughs]. R: [laughs] M: But that's how it is here. You don't just stare at people, you know, even though I was just trying to understand like the tattoos, like why he's doing this. What is what. But for him was like No, you don't stare at people like that. So it was hard but that's how it is. Here. M: I'm trying to do my best to stay, you know, focused and do a lot of research in by my own and tried to create curriculum when I don't have class, or tried to read something, or watch comedies, or try to chat with people from the country from Senegal, even though the time different is be seven-hour different. It's not easy. M: So but I gotta do something like that. I entertain myself, not just be by myself all the time. Yeah, So that's how I do that. So what I do and how I create my own community. But That's a different style guide here, but that's the way it is here. R: I was going to say, like, that whole individualistic mindset is something that I noticed is unique to North America, America, and Canada. Because I grew up in Canada and whenever I was around other people from the diaspora, like there's a lot of Southeast Asians, a lot of Indians, like, Pakistani people who I grew up with. And like the whole concept of like inviting someone into your house. Like you sit down and you have your yeah. You know. R: And then when I came to Kansas for school, like if I were to say with my friends and I were to start eating something, I'd offer it to them instinctively. And they'll just be like,” Oh, you don't have to do that.” And it's like, well, that's just how I was raised. Like, that's just something that's normal to me and I don’t think twice like and then if I bite into my house like I'll be sure to give them water, give them tea, give them something. They're always so shocked at how hospitable I am, but I'm like, it's not just me. Like there's so many people who moved like that's all it is. M: Yes. Yes. Yes, no. It is true. M: And then it's a I'm glad that your parents gave you that because I've met here lots of people from Senegal, Gambia, from other countries, but they've lost. And it's very sad, but it's the way it is, you know, and having those values, I think it's very important. It helps you stay who you are and then just like very simple in your life. And the more simple, the better, it is to move forward. R: Yeah. I think it also has to do with like, I think how my parents raised me with like the ideals of like Islam and religion in like staying rooted in my identity and like close to that. So I kinda just take that and implement everywhere I go. Like whether it's my work-life, school life, my social life, like just those things. Or it's fundamentally who you are as a person– M: Exactly. R: A few weird if I had to turn that off and turn that on depending on what group of people I was in. M: I feel you, I totally feel you. It's very important like being Muslim, I think for me, it is really, really good in my well-being. You know, if I don't have it in this very complicated, so I need to. Islam helped me stay patient, calm, thoughtful, respectful, humble. I can go on and on and all of this that, you know. So it's just great. I'm just thankful for for this religion. Yeah. R: Yeah. It helps you stay rooted in your identity. And just like as you said before, when things get tough, like that reminder 0, like things are going to fall into place under Matthew. Yeah, just that simple. That's simple ideology will save you from so much. Yep, It's like, yeah, Like it's it's hard to get by. M: Yeah. I know the difference with my colleagues and I can see the difference between them and I in many things the way that I, I am patients, sometimes they just look at me like, wow, like “How can you do it?” which I will talk and you do it like a little thing. They can explore. M: For example, my students, sometimes they're very demanding, you know, American students very demanding. But the way that I do with them, I think my Islam helped me like really in terms of how I do with them and then they don't get it. They just like my colors like Oh no, I cannot stand is I can understand. I'm like, yeah. It's okay. You know, yeah. R: Yeah. Patientce, the applications of virtue. Have you had any like negative implications of being like a practicing Muslim or like being a minority in whatever space is that you've been in? M: I mean, in terms of Islam, no, I've never I've never encountered anything bad. Because I guess maybe because, you know, as a black person, nobody expect me to be a Muslim. So maybe it's, that's what it is. M: When I go to the mosque here, it's mixed with people from Somalia, Eritrea, Senegal, like Pakistan, Indonesia, like many, many people from all over the wall. So it's a mix of race in whatever culture so people maybe don't see you as different or something. I think maybe that's why I've never really liked, faced any problem was as a Muslim. Because maybe like people don't see it. Maybe. M: But my name, my name is or even my name is Arabic. But the way it is written, maybe it's, it doesn't help people see that I am Muslim, I guess… M: But in terms of black person, yes, I I faced some crazy look everywhere… R: Mhmmm M: You know, Portland is terrible. You know, even though I like Portland, but sometimes I can see people the way they look at you. Then you're not welcome. M: So I worked at Amazon When I came here when I got my work permit, I was applying for teaching job. While I was waiting. I'm like, okay, school going to start in September. So between February and September. I don't want to sit oh, I need to have something. So I applied for any kind of job. So I applied for Amazon. So it was like quick in one week, I was hired to be like us to sort the items and stuff. M: And when I was there at the warehouse, like this is so funny. Like the white people, even sometimes the Chinese or some other people, they just see me as someone who doesn't know anything. R: Interesting. Okay. M: Like seriously, one day at the [conveyor] belt, I was scanning all the items to create palattes for those items going in the same place. So this woman came to me and said, this is like showing me a tape. Like let's say “This is tape.” Like Okay. R: Oh, wow. M: Like “Do you know tape?” I guess. I know. And she's like, Come I'll show you take instead of saying I am, I'm show you a tape or the tapes. I show you tape. I'm like, I worked with her and I said, you're not speaking proper English. You know, you know, like I studied English. I went to school and she's like You went to school, you know. So yeah, I have a master's degree, you know. I speak six languages. Do you know that? Yes. I can teach you English. I can teach you English, Spanish, French, and many others. You know what I know… R: I know these biases…Microaggressions. Unlike the microaggressions, they yeah. They're they're lying to you. M: Yeah, like it happened to move in Amazon. I spent almost four months in Amazon. Every day. There is someone with a dirty look or seeing me as if I don't know anything. Or even when there's a black African American, I think he knew like I was from Africa. He will dislike seeing me as like looking at me. He never say hello to me until we met in the bathroom. He had a bad experience with another woman from a Latina woman that I I also had a bad experience with that with her. And she would just he was just talking about it. I'm like, Oh, it's that lady. Like we talk so much about that. He's like “Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and where are you from?” I'm like “I'm from Senegal, West Africa.” Oh wow, West Africa. Wow, I forgot Africa. Wow. It must be hard. I don't know Africa. I'm like no, it's actually better than here. You guys got money, everything, but you don't have a life there. We have a life. Like How come you speak English pretty well. I didn't know. I speak six languages. Speak English. I said I know. But that was kinda like a very odd and create crazy. M: But I became very calming and patient and then we ended up becoming friends as I can teach you so much, you know, like I can tell you, you should go to Africa before you say anything, you should know, what is Africa before you have your, you know, there maybe you watch too much TV and stuff. M: And I can go on and like so many…Even my own boss never talked to me, even though every day he would come and supervise me, see what I was doing. And one day I made a mistake. He was like, “No, I actually wasn't even a mistake, mistake. It was something I didn't normally, but it was not well done from the previous person. And I tried to explain to him what it is. But the way that I was analyzing it, he was just looking at me like, You know. And when I was speaking and explaining and I mistakenly say a few words in French. [my boss was] just like you speak another language, has it? No, I speak six languages. He was like you and the “You” was kinda like you. I'm like… M: If you go to Africa, you will maybe see rarely someone who speaks only one language, one language in Africa, people speak at least, at least two. And sometimes one person can speak five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, and so on. M: And he was like, wow, and since that day, the man talks, start talking to me every morning. Say, Hey, hello. I'm like, yeah, it happens to me many times so I will just tired of Amazon, so I wanted to so I left. I left because I had had one week because I will going to start Concordia Language Villages to teach French. So I left like a week before because I was just I couldn't take it anymore. M: No, my patience has had limits… R: I've heard Amazon is hard, especially for people like you. It's crazy. M: The way that they treat like they like you have to the speed they want you late. It's like inhumane. I had to say, man, I cannot do that. You know, no. I got to. I am a human being. I'll do it this way. He was like, No man, you need to do 800 item per hour. I was doing 300 and I said, No, I can't go through hundreds more. R: Yeah. Like because when it comes to the workforce, like, they're going to replace. So it's like you have to do what's best for your own self. Exactly. In as much as you want to help the company you are an individual before employees. M: Yeah. Yeah. It was hard but, you know, for me it was important to have to just work, you know, how the money was not good. It was like 900 [dollars] per month, but it was fine because I didn't want to stay home. M: And then I had to online classes every day. I came back home from Amazon, but I didn't want to stay home like the whole morning doing nothing. R: I understand. Yeah. Wow. R: I feel like yeah, that the different intersectionality, it's like you're an African man who came here and then people are just looking at you and saying, well, he probably doesn't know how to do this. But at the end of the day, you knew more than what they did. M: Yeah. And also I traveled a lot in many countries. I've been to Europe, I've been to many African countries. I've traveled a lot. M: So just coming in, seeing these people looking at you, these people, many of them never left America. I'm looking at me like my another [unknown]. I'm like, you don't know what he's talking about. But for me it's fine, you know, since they don't know me, It's fine. It's okay. M: It happened it happened a lot. And also the thing is like I'm very quiet in general. I don't really talk. If I don't have too. Here, people they think like if you don't talk that you don't know, you know, one thing I noticed like even like at work, my colleagues, I don't really talk that much if I don't have anything to say, I just keep quiet but they think it will because you don't say anything then you are limited. R: So it's like that. I think that's another thing with the mentality out here is everything is really, everything is very personal. Like if you're not talking to you, that means like if you don't like me or you want nothing to do with me, or we’re just so different. R: But sometimes people just have different types of personalities with all different where it's like that's not the norm. Do you know what your nor might be enough may not be my normal. Yeah. I guess.. M: Yeah, as a Fulani, you know, like if you go to Fulani people were very shy, very quiet people. So that's how it is, but it doesn't mean like we're we're not we don't we don't talk or we don't want to talk to people. It's just quiet. R: That's why cultural competency and being aware of other people is you have to be able to deal with wide groups of people. Otherwise you're just going to always have some sort of weird perspective. what you think is right? It's not actually right. Yeah. M: So that's why I tried to like smile that much. At least I have that smile so I can give to people. When I was doing my my interview for my job in Baltimore. The the the the athletic director when we were having the Zoom calls. So she looked at me and he's like, I have 20 min with you. Last few questions, but your smile tells me a lot. So I don't need to ask me any question now. I know I want you. R: Oh, wow. M: Really? Just like Yeah, I've been here for she said, I've been I've been working for 35 years. If I see someone who is good, I can tell tells me that you are a good person. You have heart, and you can do the work like okay. But I will accept the question as well [laguhs]. R: [laughs]. M: Well, yeah, we spent like 5 min talking something else and I was like, okay, that's good, you know, and I don't need anymore. Like okay. R: Yeah. That's that's that's very interesting. So you're never heard them for you and then I was like, okay, so I'm still interested in answering your questions. Let me know if you're good, you're good. No. That's nice. R: I'm kinda curious with like because you said you teach French. What are they like? What's the demographic of students that you're teaching French? M: Right now I have two classes in high school. So one class is like the French 2 level, there are 14 people and one black person. I'm sorry, I'm late and it's just one black person. One black person in my two classes, only one black person. And as a two Asian American, the rest white–all white?. M: Well, so and the other, the other group, three Asian-Americans and the rest whites there 12 people. So there's no black in my only one black in my entire two classes. That's Portland. M: So the school is like, It's a very wealthy school. So a lot of people, because it's a private school, So it makes sense. Most of the black people who are there, they got scholarships because it's difficult for the parents. So that athlete student is American, Congolese American. The parents are from Congo. And yeah, so it's, uh, it's very, very complicated. M: So I'm glad that our only I at least have one person who can– R: Yeah. M: I can relate to even though she's not she has her some mental issues sometimes, but still. It's it's still good to have at least one person. Yeah. R: No, that's yeah, that's it's hard when the people who you're working with, people who you're with around can't relate to you. M: Yeah. R: Won’t identify with them. M: Yeah. Yeah. But that's how it is. This is really, really very white. And then the many, many other black people are in the Northeast Portland. So it's acrossed unit. Go downtown after you cross the river, going into a Seattle, that's where you find them. And unfortunately like everywhere else, It's very difficult. M: So I go there and in a lot of Africans and Portland is that yeah, we have a lot of Gambians, alot of Congolese, lot of they're– R: Is there also Somali population? M: Yeah, So you're not that much but somebody populations. They are mostly in other cities like acidic will Bend and Eugene, I think. Yeah, not not many, many important or I don't know them. I don't know where they are. I don't really see them that much. M: Even though in front, like right in front of me, there's a Somali person I think married to someone from Egypt, I think. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's Portland is very unique. R: Yeah. I went when I was younger. I was a little kid. So I remember we went to the beach. But I used to go back to Seattle quite a bit because I lived in Vancouver and Seattle was a two-hour drive. Yeah. My family up there. So yeah. M: Yes. Seattle has a lot of things. Somebody I think I think Vancouver has also Vancouver in Washington has also a lot of smelly population. I think, I think someone told me one day because I know something greatest person who live in Vancouver to have lots of Gambians there but also Somali. R: Yeah. Is there anything else that you wanted to share? Because I don't have any more questions. You've answered all of them with their stories. [laughs]. M: Yeah, That's why I like to start with my story. So when I say when I started, I think it will answer lots of questions that you might have. So because it's very, quite, an interesting story. M: Yeah, So I, I, you know, just one thing I love about is just sharing my country, my Africa. And I'm part of many with many institutions that take people to, to Senegal, to Africa to learn about their heritage or learn about Senegal. M: So I am going to Senegal this July taking African-American students to Senegal to learn about their heritage. It's part of the program called “My Black Birthright Bood, right? So stuff. It's taking high-school students that are African descent have something like 10% of African blood. And to take them back to Africa for them to see. M: Because many don't really understand or don't know or think like Africa starts with African, African history starts with slavery. Which is false. But that's what those who are writing history, that's what they were portray[ing]. M: It's not true. M: So it's important for them to know that there are, there were Africa before empires. Things happen before civilization. We are doing that and we are trying to help them see the picture. M: So we started last year. Before Covid. We had six students, and this time we have 18 students that we are taking and then we couldn't travel for in 2020 because of Covid, but this 2020 people are traveling. So that's one thing that I wanted to share that helps understand Africa, helps see the real Africa, not just Africa that white people– R: Narratively constructed– M: Yes. And yeah, and I'm glad that it's working and I'm glad that we're doing something. We showing them like, you know, things that have never learned or they don't have the The opportunity to see, because in the US, Africa is not a topic. Even though it's huge topic. Yeah. M: So when I tell them like we spent, I spent years, years studying about African history. And you're telling me like, you don't know anything about I am like “Is there's something wrong.?” We know there is no history. The history of the US started somewhere. You know, you know, there, there is the history of those who lived here before when the European kingdoms, that, that's the way America started. You know, even though there's something else before. But Africa is there's–yeah. There's.. R: It goes way, way back, way before my goodness, the Beirut way before everything else– M: Egypt, you know, it's something we've taught. People would be trying to teach them. Digital gi like where everything started the civilization, even the architectural aspects of everything, math and everything started from there. But nobody did. They don't know. They're like, Wow. Yeah. R: Yeah. M: Yeah, yeah. M: But I'm I'm I'm happy to be here even though it's hard, but I'm trying to build something. I'm trying to every time I got the chance to educate someone, explained, show that if you need to understand, you need to do some research. You cannot just sit where you're sitting in and thinking something that is not true. Have to do the research. And you got, you have to travel. M: So I'm trying to convince people to travel, like in 2022. I will be with another presentation taking, taking 35 French teachers from the US to Senegal so they can see that there's something else. We did it last year in 2019, we took 13 students, 13 French teachers, all women from the US, mostly from–six of them are from Sacramento, to Senegal. M: So we did like a mostly sightseeing, an inviting someone who history teacher talk about, you know, everything for them to see those things. I think it's helpful to understand and learn about Africa. And they can also spread the word. R: Yeah, especially if they're French teachers, they can teach a different perspective of French to their students, you know? M: Yes. So like the last semester, I, I used the European borders like the Schengen Space to teach my students about borders in the world. So I teach them, taught them about the European borders, and then try to give them a project to do to learn about African borders. M: I was able to show them. I'm like the different conflicts in borders. In Nigeria and Cameroon. There's a conflict there. Rwanda, Burundi or Rwanda, Congo, or Gambia, Senegal, or Mali, Burkina Faso, or Somali and Ethiopia or something like that. So there's a problem. There's forums everywhere. M: So I asked them to go to research and explain. And then I ask them to go and learn about the Berlin Conference, which is in 1884. Uh-huh. I say go there, search to Berlin Conference and tell me. So they came they never knew about that. And then they came alone so much like wow, this is happening. They shared Africa like yeah. M: And then ask them to go study the African empires. And they were like, wow, there were [sic] something before. I'm like Yeah. And then they saw it was very well organized. Mali Empire, Ghana empire, Somali Empire, and then just to name those. M: And then they do like they were able to link the problems of today in Africa to the Berlin Conference and to the empires and then to… M” The borders in Africa. It's not about territory, it's about cultures and ethnic groups. And people. You cannot cut between Nigeria and Cameroon and said This is Cameron and it's in Nigeria. No. You cannot do that– R: Yeah. M: You have to consider the people who live there, you know. But then they were like, Wow, this is what it is I'm to get. M: So today the problems are linked to those things from long time ago and it's still going on today. R: Yeah. I honestly like a lot of what I've learned about African history is things that I've learned in college. Because in high school and elementary school, they don't teach you much about it. They just say, Okay, the slaves came on these ships and they came here. That's what people, African-Americans. R: And I was like, that's not right. R: So then when I got to college, I actively took African history classes, like trying to learn language, trying to pieces up where I can get it. Without. One thing that I've noticed is that a lot of these papers, a lot of these research articles are like textbooks. They're all written by white scholars. R: Like the idea of people telling someone else's story that doesn't sit well with me. But then again, like colonialism doesn't just go away because you're writing about it in a different respect, like you need to have. R: You need to empower those people from those countries to write their own history. For it to be the truth. M: You know, like we have it. We have writers in Africa, the world about things, but you don't see them enough in the US. You don't study them, you know. R: So so many systemic things that just needs to be unpacked. M: Yeah, but little by little, I love what you're doing. So it's great. I love the research you're doing. It's just great. So keep it up, keep going and ask or as many as possible. R: Well, it's nice connecting with you and chatting with you today. M: My pleasure. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Moutarro Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Senegal to Portland, Oregon Description An account of the resource Moutarro is from Senegal but his parents were from Guinea. When he was younger, his dream was to eventually go to France, like several other African students in Francophone countries After his short stint at the French university, he used his English skills to work with an American NGO. Finally, after working for an international student exchange program for 7 years, Moutarou studied at a university and then went back to Senegal to work for a different company. He speaks about the importance of his faith and how it keeps him rooted and his brief experience at Amazon where he encountered racism on a daily basis. Towards the end of the interview, Moutarro discusses the impacts of colonialism’s modern day consequences. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Portland, Oregon Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_goirl83o" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_goirl83o/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Moutarro"></iframe> Community Discrimination Education Identity Language Oregon Senegal Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Joohye Oh Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sylvia Language of Interview English and some Spanish Format Video, audio only, text only Audio City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Chihuahua, Mexcio Intermediate point in journey (1) City/State or Country to which interviewee (or parents/grandparents) traveled before coming to current point of residence Utah Intermediate point in journey (2) City/State or Country to which interviewee (or parents/grandparents) traveled before coming to current point of residence Hays, Kansas Intermediate point in journey (3) City/State or Country to which interviewee (or parents/grandparents) traveled before coming to current point of residence Great Bend, Kansas Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Sylvia (S) Joohye Oh (J) S: I think my story is a little unique in the sense that it's not your typical story of how I ended up in Kansas. S: Let me just say that my family is from the border from the south around the south part of the US–north part of Mexico. And from what I heard from family members. My dad's side of the story comes from Texas. And my great grandmother was born and raised in Texas and decided to move south to Monterey–Nueva León, which is south of Texas. S: On the other side, I have family that comes from the western part of Northwest part of Mexico. So that was another state, Sonora. S: But there's always been my grandparents had experienced living in the States. Some grandparents lived in California and Arizona. Some other grandparents lived in Texas, El Paso. S: It is not that unusual then that I was going back and forth live in coming from Chihuahua, Mexico. And being born and raised in Chihuahua, Mexico, being the first immigrant and my family to come and actually decide to live in Kansas. S: So that's where my family comes from. S: Being in Chihuahua, Mexico. That means that we had easy access to traveling and visiting Texas often, and that's what we did. My grandparents always had a place for us to stay in El Paso, Texas. That was a place for us to go shopping. S: Is just a two-and-a-half, three hour ride from Chihuahua to go to El Paso. S: So I was exposed since I was little to just traveling in visiting Texas and spending summers there in my grandfather's residence for a place to go. S: My dad, when I was an infant, decided to do his master’s. And I don't know how he came about deciding that he wanted to go to New Mexico. S: I lived in New Mexico as an infant for two years, the firstborn in my family, so it was only me and my mom and my dad while he was doing his master's in wildlife. S: Then again, as an infant that was exposed to English, I was exposed to the American culture. My family has a pretty good grip on keeping traditions and culture, but also being very comfortable and used to the American way of life in the American culture. S: So that's the moving back and forth. Yes. S: I lived in Las Cruces, New Mexico while my dad was at the New New Mexico State University at Las Cruces, then move back to Chihuahua. And I lived there and was raised when I was a kid in Mexico. S: I was very fortunate that my family is upper middle-class. So I've always been exposed to private schools, and that's what I attended when I was a child. I attended Catholic private schools from kindergarten, elementary school, and then I went to the, one of the most prestigious secondary schools there, one that was affiliated through the university, Tec de Monterrey. S: So I ended up going to a junior high school that was bilingual. So half of her classes were in English. Half of the classes were in Spanish. S: It was difficult at first, but but it was, it was a lot of fun. So once I finished with junior high, then the next thing that we typically did, our classmates at that particular school was to spend a year as an exchange student. S: So there were different options at the time, some people ended up being going to boarding schools for my particular family and my situation, we decided that I wanted to do an exchange program through a through a US company. S: So I sign up for that and I get chosen to go to Utah. So I spent my junior year in high school in Utah for the year. So 1990–91, I believe. S: That was a really good experience. S: I really learned a lot about their religion there, which is a Mormon. And even though the family that I live with, they were not practicing Mormons, they did have some connections with the Mormon religion and their oldest child was actually converting to become Mormon. S: And so I was invited to listen to their preparation meetings that they had. So that was quite, quite fun. S: As a junior, I finished my year, I came back to Chihuahua, finished high school. I started college. And after starting college is when I realized that I was in the wrong major, I was studying for marketing and I really felt like psychology was where I needed to go. S: So looking at the options that I had at the time, this is around 90 to 93. We're not really good Psychology schools in Chihuahua. And I always wanted to go back to the states to just study more. S: So I started looking for options and by then my parents were divorced, my parents were married and my stepfather was very supportive of me. S: Just looking for opportunities and finding a good school to go to. It was–it was a matter of luck that one of my classmates ended up suggesting for me to try Hays, Kansas. S: And the reason why he suggests that that is he came from a private school in Chihuahua that had some kind of agreement with the boarding school to high school, Catholic boarding school in Hays, Kansas. S: So a lot of my friends and close, close acquaintances were going to Hays, Kansas for this boarding school and thus his experience. But he offered the information that there was a University in Hays, Kansas, that it was a really nice, safe, small town. I should check it out. S: It's always researching options in applying for different places. I went ahead and applied for Hays, Kansas, and all the places that I applied in Texas and I want it to stay somewhat close. S: So I was applying for Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado. And then Hays–I got a response from many of them that was very not personal, but very generic of student 101234. You need to reply but this date, otherwise, we're going to toss your application and you're gonna be inactive. S: And Hayes sent a very personal letter calling, referring to me by my name, letting me know that they were excited that I applied, that they were hoping that I would choose them. It was signed by the director of international students, who happens to be, by the way, the current director of international students at the University of Kansas right now, Mr. Joe Potts. S: So that just made me think it made me feel that I was welcomed in Hays, Kansas and that I was going to have some kind of support system to go to. S: So we decided that that's where I needed to go. As a sophomore of transfer transfer student from, um, the Tec de Monterrey campus Chihuahua to Fort Hays State University in Hays, Kansas. S: That's why I say my story is not very common because I came here as a documented, not immigrant but as a documented student with an F1. I think it's an F1. I'm not sure. But with a student visa both times when I was an exchange student and then when I came back as a college student. S: My plan has had always been that I was just going to do my bachelor's degree and then I was going to go back home. S: And so I had a boyfriend at the time. He was in Chihuahua. He decided he needed to be closer, so he ended up coming to Wichita State University. And he was there for about a year but then he had to go back home and I was still finishing my bachelor's. S: So it was then that I met my now husband. We were in a class or two together. And it was towards the end of the semester that he decided he was brave enough to strike a conversation during an outing on a Friday night. So I was completely in love where I had a crush on this guy. S: So it was just the right timing, I guess, that I was not dating anyone in that he was asking me to go out for a date. That was my last semester of my bachelor's. S: At that point, I was already looking. I already had a plan of pursuing a master's degree, knowing that in psychology, you need to have higher education if you want to work in the field. S: So again, I started applying to different places, looking at what was feasible. My family was paying the bill. I was very fortunate that they have the resources to pay for me to live in Hays, Kansas, same pay the full tuition. And as an international student, that's not cheap. S: So I was looking at options, but also being very mindful that I'm one of three kids and I'm the oldest one of my sisters. I have two and they were close behind me finishing high school and needing to go to college, knowing that my parents were going to support them fully as well. S: So even though we had resources, I was very mindful of making sure that whatever place I chose, it was going to be within the budget so that my sisters could also experience something like this if that's what they wanted. S: And at the time that we're not interested, but the tuition at them on the Tec de Monterrey campus Chihuahua was pretty high because that's the most expensive university then northern part of Mexico. S: Anyway. So around that time is when I realized that one of the most affordable options while was to stay in Hayes and it was going to be easier for Hays to admit, you know, continue to have me as a grad student, as an international student, even though I had years and years of English as a second language, I really did struggle with language skills in verbal skills. S: So at the time I was taking the admission test called the GRE, scores were very, very unusual in the sense of the analytical and the nonverbal sections were extremely high. I want to say 90th percentile and above meeting all the criteria for whatever admissions. But yet my verbal skills were low. S: And that was because I was still learning academic English, not just conversational English and all these terms that I needed to understand. S: So with those scores, it was just easier to stay in haze in my directors international students. The Mr. Joe Potts knew that I was a straight “A” student 4.0 throughout my career at Hays. S: And actually finishing up my bachelor's in a total of three years, one year in Chihuahua Tec de Monterrey, and then enrolled in 24 hours usually per semester up for Hayes for two years. S: So I finished altogether in three years. S: So he knew that I was going to be capable of continuing with grad school and he offered for me to apply for a scholarship from the it's called Rotary Club. Rotary Club of Hays, Kansas. S: They were giving away a pretty big scholarship to international students. I applied and got the scholarship, which was great for my family because then my sisters, my family could afford my sister starting college at the time. S: So that really gave me the reason to stay and to continue pursuing my Master's in clinical psychology at Fort Hays. S: So I can I kept dating my husband and soon enough we got engaged. By then. I already knew that I was starting to grow fond of Kansas. S: He is–he was born and raised in Central Kansas. So he's a guy that was in law enforcement. S: So by the end of my master’s, we decided that we were gonna get married. And that's what we did. S: By then he got a job in central Kansas. So we move to Larned, Kansas where he was a police officer. S: And soon after that I, when an applied, they have a state hospital in Larned. I was not very fond of applying or working as a first job, a newly graduated psychologist, I was intimidated by the idea of working at a state hospitals. S: So I ended up going to the nearby bigger town of Great Bend, Kansas 20 miles from Larned and applying or at least going to the mental health center to let them know that I was interested in a job, which at first they dismissed me and they acted like that: We're not interested. S: Once they met me and realized that I was fully bilingual in Spanish, that quickly changed their strategy and they were all over wanting to hire me just immediately, which I'm very fortunate that they did. S: And that's because Great Bend in the surrounding area has a lot of Spanish-speaking families that are recently migrated. So a lot of people worked in the meat packing industry in the farms there that did not fully understand English and that just needed support and services. S: So I started working there. S: It was not until a year or two after that that the school district in Great Bend was really using my services for the influx of children that they were having that only spoke Spanish, that struggled academically. S: So soon after a year, after working at the Mental Health Center, the District approached me and asked me. If I would be willing to work for them and get my certification as a school psychologist. S: And being just newly married with no family. Knowing that I liked going to school, I said: Why not? S: So they hired me and gave me the opportunity to go back to haze or wherever I want it to do the required grad classes so that I could get my certification as a school psychologist in addition to the clinical one that I had. S: So I did that I started working for the school district. And this is two or three years after living in Larned and just realizing that Larned, Kansas is a very small town, even Great Bend, Kansas, this is a very small town. I'm talking about 4,000 people in learned, about maybe 10,000 in grape and I don't know, I'm guessing. S: But coming from even Hays, Kansas, this a little bigger. S: It's it's a college town and it's full of diversity. In my hometown of 500,000 people. It was a culture shock to live in central Kansas. S: It was, it was very it felt very lonely. I felt very isolated, even with the Hispanic community that they had over there. S: I didn't feel connected. S: My husband was American and I just didn't have a whole lot in common with being a professional in working for institutions. I didn't have a whole lot in common with the families that lived in long hours or that they were the clients that I was seeing at the mental health center. S: Because typically what I saw there was I was the one providing services for alcohol abuse, alcohol dependence for the families that were stopped and arrested for driving under the influence and then being referred to me to complete assessments and complete treatment because they were driving while drunk. S: So it was not a good situation of making friends or having connections with families that I was providing a service. S: So my husband and I started thinking and talking about places where we could move, what we needed to be to be happy and my family by then, they were visiting me, but they were not very excited to come and visit small towns with nothing to do. S: My sisters by then decided that they wanted to come to Fort Hays to pursue their bachelors and master’s. So I had them close by and that kind of helped a little. S: My middle sister finished her bachelor's in Mexico at Tec de Monterrey, but then decided she was gonna do her MBA at Fort Hayes, which she did. S: And then my youngest sister came–transfered from from Mexico and finished her bachelor's in her master's in school psychology as well. The difference with them, my middle sister have boyfriends in Mexico. So when she was done with her MBA, she went back home. Later married the same guy. So she's happily married in Mexico with her husband. S: And my youngest sister, stayed a little longer in Kansas, but then eventually ended up moving back to Mexico. And then later on deciding to pursue additional certifications in Spain. So she ended up living in Spain for a few years. S: So in around that time when they were going back home from Hays, Kansas. That's when we decided we wanted to move from Larned. S: So we ended up finding my husband didn't want to leave Kansas. He was not interested in going back to school or doing any more further training–police officer in Larned. S: So we were limited to staying in Kansas so that he could use his certification as a police officer in a new job. S: And the opportunity came around to come to Lawrence, Kansas, which was considering the places that house hoping that we were going to go to–I was hoping Wichita, I was hoping Kansas City for the amount of opportunities there and access to an airport. S: And Lawrence was a really good option. Being so close to Kansas City in the airport, but also going back to a campus town. And feeling that welcoming feel that you get when you are in a town that’s open-minded to diversity and that celebrates diversity. S: So that's what we did and we moved to Lawrence in 2001, when our first kid was born. So she moved to Lawrence, Kansas with us when she was a few months old. S: And ever since we've been in Lawrence. S: And Lawrence, my husband, transferred to the police department later on decided that he needed to change careers. So he now works for the National Guard–Army National Guard in Topeka as an active duty officer. S: I moved here a school psychologist and have been working for the school district since 2001. S: And eventually when my kids, I have two beautiful girls, and when when they were little, I decided that I always wanted to pursue a doctorate degree. And I fell in love with behavioral psychology, applied behavior analysis. So I ended up starting to take classes until I got to the point that I was able to find an advisor and finish the program and get accepted as a doctorate program candidates. S: So I ended up getting my degree in 2011. I think. S: I mean, I don't know if that's a lot. If it's too much. I still see my family. I think that the going back to school and becoming a school psychologist was the next best thing to having a part-time job. S: Because that means that with my job, I have the same schedule of work scheduled teachers, so that I get the summers off. S: And every single summer. I have gone back home taking my daughter's, gone back on and have spent summers with my family and Mexico, were very proficient, had deriving from Kansas all the way to Chihuahua, Mexico. S: Three day trip, spending a month or two with my family, enjoying their company, taking advantage of the fact that they have houses big enough for us to all fit in there. We usually sign up for the Country Club in summer camps that they have at the country club. S: And my kids–because of that, they have been exposed to not only Spanish, but also meeting friends from their meeting. My my longtime friends’ kids, as a result, keeping those relationships going. S: And then of course, my family continues to come and visit me when they can spending sometimes holidays with me. But just live in S: [reading out loud a question the interviewer put into the Zoom chat]. S: My extended family, most of my cousins, my grandparents died and Chihuahua, and most of my cousins had lived in Chihuahua. I have maybe one or two cousins that have moved away, but it's not very common. S: So like one or two in Mexico City, one or two in Monterrey. I have some cousins that have I have worked with Doctors Without Borders. I have one cousin that ended up in Africa a couple of times. S: I mean, it's not very common, but at the same time, my dad comes from a family of 11. So a couple of his brothers ended up marrying American wives. In one of them, like I have an uncle who lives in Wisconsin, and I have another uncle that lives in Michigan. S: So they kinda, I kinda ended up doing something very similar with them in the sense that if they migrated to the States, it was because they met their spouses and they ended up staying here. S: And I think that they had the situation, at least with one of my uncles. He ended up meeting the wife also in college. S: And the other uncle is a professor at a university. So my assumption is that he was at the university as well as how I was when I met my spouse. S: So kind of interesting that the story repeats. S: And you know my sisters, all of them ended up with a master's. Both of them. S: And my dad, even though he had his master's back when I was young, he decided he wanted a PhD. So he went to the university in Chihuahua–Universidad de [unknown] de Chihuahua. And he ended up getting his PhD in wildlife and conservation soon after I got my PhD. S: So I got mine in 2011, and my dad got his in 2012. So that was kind of exciting that we were both kidding our degrees together. S: And fun fact that he's the wildlife guy, but we didn't follow his steps. Since I'm a psychologist. My middle sister is into business, not currently working. She has kids that are little and then my youngest one [sister] ended up in psychology as well. S: And some family members being business owners. My dad's side of the family, there's a lot of physicians and my great–My grandfather actually owns a hospital. S: So I have some an uncle and aunt and several cousins that are physicians. S: I ended up not not choosing that but it did cross my mind, but I if I would have chosen that, I don't think I've ever would have come to the States because it probably would have been easier to go through med school, in Spanish, to finish the type of degree over there and not worry about a second language. S: [Reading another question that the interviewer left in the chat]. Okay. Let me look at your question as we wrap up. S: [Reading the question]. Is there anything you would like the youngest my next generation to know? I would like to share your concluding thoughts. S: Sure. I would like for Linux kids to know that everything is possible. If you set your mind to it. S: In that, you know, saying that I went to school and I got a degree. Sounds easy. It was not super hard. S: A lot of people may help you, may support you, but a lot of people kind of get in the way. And you have to have a strong will into now that I want to, I want to go to college, I want to go and get into grad school. S: If that's your goal, put everything you have into it and don't give up. And you can make it happen. Because I make it sound like it was easy for me and it was not. S: Many times my family said, we don't have any money and we don't–we can't afford that. We're not gonna be able to help you. And it was a lot of looking For supports, asking around making connections at the university and letting people know that I was looking for scholarships. I was looking for ways to make this affordable and make it happen AND kids can do that. S: If you, if you believe in yourself and you know that you wanna be successful, then just don't give up. Keep trying. And just show the rest of society that Hispanics are hard workers, that are smart people that are capable. And that we can we can also hold positions that are reserved for people that have professional education and we can do that. S: We can definitely do that and we can take advantage of the fact that we're bilingual. And unfortunately, in American schools, in American students may not see the benefit of being bilingual. S: But let's, let's keep our language alive, in our culture alive, and help our community to be successful. [END] Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sylvia Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Chihuahua, Mexico to Lawrence, Kansas Description An account of the resource Sylvia works as a school psychologist and is originally from Chihuahua, Mexico. Her interest in furthering her education led her to Fort Hays State University where she obtained her Bachelor's degree. Shortly after, she continued onto the Masters program and found work serving the community in Garden City. Eventually, Sylvia moved to Lawrence to obtain her Ph.D. Today, she practices psychology at a local high school. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_tfafd5cq" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_tfafd5cq/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Sylvia"></iframe> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1980s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Community Education Identity Language Lawrence Mexico Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Josef Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Michocan, Mexico to Wichita, Kansas Description An account of the resource Josef was born in Michoacán, Mexico to a Mexican father and a mother with Spanish and indigenous heritage. He was married in St. John, Kansas. He worked on the railroad through sweltering summers and freezing winters. Josef received two degrees from Wichita State University and went on to become an educator and principal in the Wichita area. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Aron Muci Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource middle of the 1900s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Wichita, Kansas Community Education Mexico Wichita Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lourdes Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from El Salvador to Lawrence, Kansas. Description An account of the resource Lourdes is a filmmaker based in New York. She is bilingual due to her mother’s efforts to teach Lourdes as well as her younger brother and sister Spanish. She reflects on being Latina in Kansas and how several individuals have had difficulties pronouncing her name. She found learning about the American interventions in countries like El Salvador to be shocking. When asked about what the older Latino generation should know, she says that there should be less secrecy and that it is important to share stories in order to preserve histories. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Marta Caminero-Santangelo Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Mother immigrated in the late 1990s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Community Education El Salvador Identity Language Lawrence Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Aron Muci Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Nydia Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Nydia (N) Aron (A) N: So my name is Maria Vasquez. I was born and raised here in Wichita, Kansas. I am 23 years old and what I do here is, I'm a teacher–I'm a first grade teacher. N: I've lived here my whole life. N: My family, both my parents are from Trancoso Zacatecas, Mexico and they've been here for, I would say a little over 25 years. I am one of three siblings. N: So with that being said, a little background information about my family to get started. My parents moved here on and off back-and-forth. When they were about dad was probably about 25. Mom was 18. They were married. They got married, came over here. N: We already had family here in Wichita, so it was just common sense to move somewhere where we have family and where things were kind of familiar. N: After that, they started their family. We were all born and raised here. N: There were a couple of times when I was young, probably one or two where they went back a couple of times. And then after they had my youngest sister in 2001, they stayed here permanently after that. N: There was no more going back-and-forth. N: Things got a little bit harder for them to be traveling across the border and coming back. So they decided that the safest thing to do was to just stay after my youngest was born, my youngest siblings. N: So with that being said, the only thing that we had experienced per se was just the traditions and the culture that they brought back. They brought here from Mexico. That could be, you know, just how we celebrate certain holidays. N: We are Catholic twos. So having that into our traditions as well as holidays, I had a lot to do with what we saw about our culture. N: We didn't really know anything else because the only thing we got close to home to Mexico was probably just stories and my older sister was my oldest sister was the one that would probably I think she traveled about three times back-and-forth on her own because she could and she brought back a lot more to me and my youngest sister. N: But that being said, I think when I was around ten, so 13 years ago, actually, not ten. When I was ten years old, my older sister was about 14, 15 [years old]. We decided to go to Mexico. N: Just her and I. N: I had been to Mexico, but that was at one or two, so it wasn't enough for me to remember anything. So we decided to go on this trip for the whole entire summer and the only perspective that they kept giving me was, you know, there's–there's no showers over there like there is, but it's very different in me living here all my life and having access to all these things. N: We were just I was just kinda like questioning. Well, what do you mean? It's kinda different? N: You know, my mom was just preparing me like, Hey, when you go down there, it's very different to the way that we live here. So don't be shocked, don't act a certain way. N: Just appreciate the small things and appreciate try to soak everything in and appreciate that because that's where we all came from. That's where your dad and I came from and that's that's all we know. N: Aside from living here. N: And I was like, why was ten, you know, it wasn't just like it wasn't something that really stuck to me. Her words didn't really stick with me. N: It was just a vacation to me. N: And she kept warning me, you know, there's a lot of things that you may see down there that you'll probably find a little shocking. But don't let it affect you in any way. Don't, don't react in a bad way. It's all good things. N: So me being ten, I went it was the first time I had traveled that far in a couple of years enough to remember. N: And I remember as soon as we got there, we went by bus. We didn't go by airplane or anything like that. We we went on a bus and I think it hit me when I started seeing like the houses and how they were shaped differently. They were made of different material. N: They looked very small. N: I think that's when I was like, we went from city and we went from Texas to complete nothing like desert. We were in Juarez and we hadn't gotten there just yet, but it was just dead. Everything was dead. N: There was nothing there and that's when it hit me where I like. This is probably what I was being warned about. N: This doesn't look like home at all. N: And then the people that you would see on the outside, they were just they were just I guess you would say they were dressed differently. N: And eventually we got to where we're from. And I remember like seeing my family there. And mind you they had met me but I obviously didn't remember. So it was all my family all my mom's side of the families over there. N: And she's only one that came from her family, from her side of the family. So they were very welcoming. They were very happy. They were hugging and they were kissing cousin on each other. N: And just it was just very odd to me because one I never remembered them too. They all look like my mom. They were just like there's like eight of them that look the same. N: Everything was different as soon as I got off the bus. N: Like the smell was different, the environment, the people. N: And we stayed there for two months. N: So in that two month period, I understood what my mom was saying. Like things are very different in what she meant by that was her family over there isn't wealthy by any means. I mean, to shower, we have to heat up a pot full of water and then just go back and forth until the whole big tub is filled. Um, that's how you shower. N: And it's unlike this room. It's not like a bathroom. The toilets aren't flushable over there. So you have to go to the restroom and like this bin and take care of that and it's in the same room. N: So it was very different. N: I would've never thought I would have to do that in my life. And I figured like, Oh, in my brain before I went, it was like, yeah, things are gonna be different obviously, you know. But not to that extent. N: So as soon as I was seeing hello. This part of the house doesn't have a roof. This part of the house doesn't have doors, that doesn't have there's no privacy. N: That's when it was like I think I started to realize why my parents raised us in that way. In a way of appreciating what you have, not thinking that, you know by any means that we have the best of the best. Learning how to save [money]. Learning how to be kind. All of those things that were taught. N: That's when I started to really think like I was ten. N: So it really hit me like, this is why they taught us kindness. This is why they taught us how to appreciate the hard work. This is why they taught us that education is so important. Because in the US, like you are, if you don't go to college, you can still be somebody. N: But education is like the top thing. N: It's full of opportunities. N: And I think that's when I realized that this is why they left. N: They didn't want us living in these environments which are totally doable, obviously because there's still that way. N: But now it's like now I understand why they sacrificed, leaving and sacrifice traveling. Like so far. N: And, you know, back then, I knew, I knew that my parents had done that and I knew the sacrifices, and I knew what that meant and all of that, but I didn't truly understand it until I was able to see all of that. N: So, you know, it's it's the small things. On Sundays we would go out to the street and it's called is the tianguis. That's what it's called. The tinaguis is where all the community gathers together and there's just small businesses. People sell handmade bracelets, handmade curses, shoes, movies, things like that. Really. N: It's almost like a little it's like a thrift store, but all of these handmade items, and you gather every Sunday and you can shop and you can just interact with the community. Everybody sets up their tents, everybody sets up everything. And you just navigate your way through these tiny little stores, through the streets. N: And it was so welcoming. N: And that's not something that you see here. N: You can go to you can go to the mall and there's a bunch of stores, but it's not the community gathering together and actually socializing. And that was what stood out to me. That was one of the things that stood out to me the most. N: And I think it's because you don't, you don't see that over here in the United States, like you see, there's gatherings and stuff like that, but it's not It's not as meaningful. And it's that Trancoso is a very, very small town. Very small. N: Everybody knows everybody. N: I mean, as soon as I stepped out of the bus, they were like, Are you Estela’s daughter? Oh my gosh. She looked like Estela when she left here. And so that's how you know, that everybody just knows everybody. N: And as I was walking to the store, you know, getting to go get milk or something with my grandma. They'd be like “Is that your daughter? Is that your daughter's daughter? The one that's up north?” My grandma would say, “Well, yeah, this is Nydia yeah, this is this Estela’s daughter, the one that's up north. N: And that's what they say is what they call it over here. And I would just just the way that they they talked about over here. N: I feel like people in Mexico. My family has an idea that is so big and great over here. Yes, it's like the land of opportunity, but I feel like they have a misinterpretation of how things are over here. N: And I feel like we have a misinterpretations and we were so busy living our life here and keep going forward that we tend to forget about the small things. So it's kinda like flipped. N: And what I mean by that is that when I got talking to them about how things are over here, they were like, wow, you have money, you know, your in the US like that's awesome. You have everything that you could ever want. N: And I was like, well, no, it's very different. It's hard work. Yes. It looks better if that's what you're trying to get at. You know, there's big buildings and there's, you know, depending on where you live. N: But I was like, It does look very different. The houses look very different. The way of life is very different. N: And they just thought that one of my cousins said, just to put it in the simplest way, the way that they see it over here is that it is a perfect life, like perfection. N: When it comes to jobs, when it comes to families, when it comes to money when it comes to anything that you could possibly think of. They think that the world over here is just perfect, that there's no stress, no struggle. N: And that's when it hit me. N: And I was like, well, we didn't come from a wealthy family, obviously. We do have a roof over our heads. We don't have to worry about anything financially, thankfully. But it comes with hard work. N: And I think that that moment when I went I was over there. It just made me realize why people move all the way over here. N: We said yeah, sorry, give me a second. N: Okay. N: Okay. So I was saying sorry about that. A: No worries. N: It changed my perspective on everything. It kinda made me appreciate a little bit more about the sacrifices that they did. They made for us to be here. The life over there. N: I enjoyed it because it was just kind of like a pause in my life of a moment of realization. Because I feel like over here it's go, go, go. N: It never stops. You wake up, you go to work, or you go to school. You go on about your day every single day, Monday through Friday. On the weekends. It's supposed to be a break day for people. It's family time. N: And I feel like that's just the way that it is already here. For most people is just you either work, you go to school, or you have to be doing something for your life to keep going, to keep moving over there. N: It was a pause because they don't work all the time because there's not that many jobs over there. They have to find ways to get money by doing the smallest things. Cleaning windows, like stop standing outside of a gas station and just cleaning the windows for people just to get a couple of cents. N: Anything that you can think of they make into a small business. And I mean, over there it's different. You don't have to go through the you don't have to go through anything to make it a business. N: You just do your thing, you create things, and you sell it just to just to live. N: I think that was a pause in my life of this is nice because I don't feel like my life is just go, go, go over here. You get to spend time with family. And it wasn't even just “Oh, she's ten.” It was a summertime. It was a vacation. She's she's having fun obviously. N: It was that Is this life? Every single day? N: They–the kids, some of them don't even go to school because they don't have the money, they don't have the money to buy what they need supplies, so they quit and they could be as young as five. They could never go to school at all. That's just the way life is over there. N: And there's people that work their butts off over there. And time passes. And they're still not doing the best that they can. N: They're doing the best that they can, but their dream of like trying to grow and save it so hard to do. You can't really save over there. N: That's and that's what I realized. N: And that's when, you know, light bulb went off and it was kind of like this is why they came here. Because that life as great as it was during that time, it's not the best. N: It's not it's manageable because they have to live. They have to find the greatness in it. N: But you grow up and you're not, you're almost like not a, not a person. You don't feel success. You don't feel like you've done anything over there. N: And I think that's what they were trying to make us feel. Try to be successful and try to feel that within ourselves. And that's, that's the whole reason that they moved here. N: You know, it's the land of opportunity, yes. But for a person that has moved here from Mexico with absolutely nothing because they came with no clothes, no nothing. You know, not just what they had on. N: And to start from literally nothing. N: I think that's that's what I like to say when I tell people like, where did you come from, you know, where, you know, people are always confused. [They ask] Like are you Mexican? Were you born here? Like where are you from? And it's like, yeah, I was born and raised here. N: But that–that's not just who I am. N: I'm not like I'm not just any other American over here. Your typical American that lives over here. It's there's more to me than that. N: And even if I wasn't born in Mexico, I think that that trip made me think of like something bigger, the bigger picture. And they came for our education. They came to have a better home. N: They came because they did not like the way that people ended up over there. And they didn't want us having that vision of what it's like to be up north. N: Like all the other kids that I was talking to were talking to me, you know, like, “Oh wow, How's it up north? Like what are their flies over there? Is it dirty over there?” N: Is it like, what do you guys do for fun, or what what kinds of things? What does your school look like? N: Do you guys have desks because we don't have all of that. And just talking to people my age over there at that time I was like, wow. The fact that That's their perspective on like a whole different place. N: It's almost like they're talking about a different planet. N: That's what it seemed like to me, but it wasn't it. I feel like my parents didn't want us asking those questions. I feel like they wanted us to know everything that we could possibly know about our culture and where they came from as well as how we are going to be growing up. And that's the thing. N: I feel like those conversations always happen throughout our childhood and even now at 23. I don't I feel like since I haven't been to Mexico since then. N: So I think that that was definitely life-changing in a sense where I'm a mom now. N: And, you know, it's funny because the things that my parents used to say to me, like appreciate the little things you know, you need to be raised with kindness. N: Like that's what I want for my son, is to have those opportunities to be a good person and appreciate those little things. And hopefully one day I'll be able to take them just so he can have that moment too. N: Because it's it's hard growing up with parents who came here and were never able to go back. It's hard. It's it's probably if I could have one wish, it's for them to be able to go back to that moment. And it's hard because a lot of people don't understand that unless they've experienced it themselves. N: So my son will never get to experience like, you know, being born over there or anything like that. But I think that's what's important is to carry those things in those experiences and talk about them in order for younger generations to understand. N: Just like they did to me. Like they talked about all the sacrifices that talked about their life and and all that they did for us. And it didn't mean anything until you see where they came from and you live there for two months? N: And the only thing that I would go through my head that summer was my mom's comment of “Don't react a certain way. Don't behave as if you came from something bigger. Because although you were born here in the United States, we didn't raise you to act like you have it all.” N: Because there were people when they came here that judge them that they didn't speak any English. So that's why it was very important for them to teach us Spanish and to teach us all about and to teach us about our culture and where we came from. N: And as much as they could talk and on and on and on about it. You don't get it unless you live that life even for just a moment. N: So my goal is to talk about my father's life and my mom's life and share that with my son and share what I experienced at just ten years old with him. N: And I think that's important because that is the true meaning of where you came from. You know, you didn't just come from, you can say that two came from a place all you want, but it's not it's not exactly who you are. N: And that's, I think that's probably the most important thing to me is it's families. So now I want to work hard and I want to experience all these things and I want to teach my son about how to be a hard worker, how to do his own thing, how to interact with others, and how to respect people who don't have all of that. N: So then coming back after our trip and coming back, I like I noticed I did things differently. N: Like I would turn off the water and not let it run for such a long time anymore. Or I would turn off the lights if nobody was using them or I would if we if we went to the store, I would just I would tell my mom like, oh, you know what? I don't want anything. That's time. I don't need new shoes. I have the ones I've had for such a long time. I'll just use those. N: I felt like I was I came back a whole different person in terms of like saving money and learning to appreciate what I do already have not being so needy. N: And I think I started to ask my parents a little bit more like how was work or where I could see it that they were tired and I would do something around the house for them. It's it's it's coming from there that I feel like if I hadn't gone on that trip, I would have never gone later on. N: I think I was meant to go. So I could see exactly why they came over here. N: And it looks the same as how they left it because nothing changes over there. Nothing really ever does. So it was life changing. It was a great experience. N: I feel like I'm a much kinder person. N: Obviously, it's been 13 years and you grow a lot during that time. But I feel as if if I hadn't gone, I'd probably just be not as appreciative of all of those things. I wouldn't find those things meaningful. N: I would just kind of throw them off to the side and say, Hey, you know what? This is, where I am. I came from, you know, I've never been, but that's just all I know. N: And I think it's important to actually go to those places to see and to, to bring something back. Not to just yourself but to other people. N: So now people ask me, like where are you from and all this stuff. N: And I could go on for days about all of that. N: But it's like I'm proud to be Mexican and I'm proud to speak Spanish, and I'm proud to talk about my culture and I'm proud to talk about my parents hardships because that's that's who I am. N: It's not just about me, it's about all the people and all the factors that came in together to raise me, to build me N: You know, I am like my dad. I am my mom. I am that I’m Trancoso and everything that has to do with that place, that that's who I am. N: And I don't know. I think I think that's what's the most important thing for me, is just knowing all that and soaking it in. So after coming back and to this day, I'm still very picky about like certain things, you know, like if you're not going to use the water, then turn it off or if you're not going to be in that room, turn the lights off. N: Like it takes a lot of work to get to where you are. I definitely have much more respect for my parents. They still haven't stopped working. My mom is 47 and my dad's 53. So they're still going. N: Things are very different for them here. They don't get to just retire and get money after they don't. They have to save and they've been saving since they came here just to prepare for anything that were to happen. N: So the fact that they're still working, it just shows that that's what they came here for. You know what I mean? N: They want to leave us something and just be prepared for anything that has to come so we can get into the details about that. You know, when whenever they if they decide to speak a lot about, about their life. N: But yes, That is, that is my story. A: Thank you so much for sharing that I mean, I can tell from sharing that story that this was a really formative and an important experience in your life. And when as you say, where you learned a lot about where you came from, and most importantly about how much you learned about yourself, right? A: And I'm very happy that you are able to have that experience. Because as you say, not everyone gets to have that kind of experience. So that's very fortunate for you. A: And one of the things that I'm kind of curious a little bit about. You mentioned that what you mentioned wanting to take your son, hopefully someone day back to Mexico and in a way so that he can kinda see that unexperienced that for himself. I'm kind of curious if there are any differences in terms of how you are raising your son now versus how your parents raised you? Just trying to because he's going to have a little bit of a, he's going to have a little bit more about detachment, right? Compared to you. A: And so as you as you kind of started off your story, you talked about how much your mother was trying to prepare you, going back to how that experience and what that what that would mean. So what is the kind of preparation that you think that you would give your son before heading back? Like, what how would you prepare him to be there to experience and what would you hope that he would get from that? N: I think. I mean, you could always see no, anybody can always just wait until somebody's order to understand. But I feel like my parents started telling us. My parents were very honest with me about their lives at a very young age. N: And I think it was two. Prepare me. Not just in case I visited, it's just to prepare me for the conversations that I would one day be having with people. Because people do ask people. N: I think I remember as young as like first grade people would ask me like, why was why, like why I was a little bit tan or why? Like if I was born here, if I was from a different place and I think that they did that to prepare us for those conversations. N: And I didn't think that was like, Well, I would just tell people what we got. Like I was born here. What are you talking about? But you're just so young. N: But I think that they were very honest and upfront and they didn't wait until we were older to understand, just so we wouldn't be able to be prepared for any of those questions at any age or comments. N: So what I would do is is just that is, you know, just be 100% honest with him and what kind of things he may run into. So young at school, what kind of things people ask at school. N: And I think that's the meaning of conversation in those experiences because I feel like we have to do we have to have more conversations, not just with me and my son about all of this, but I feel like in general, people need to be a little bit more informed and exposed to those experiences, even if it's just conversation to truly understand. N: So I think what he would get the most out of that is definitely I feel like he would experience the same things because even if I was to raise them to be kind and respectful and all that good stuff. N: I feel like it would be the same thing. Like hopefully he's like, great and just very respectful and it's hope, hopefully understanding everything that word is to say in conversation. Your grandpa, he came here with Grandma and all this stuff. N: But until somebody actually goes, you fully wrap your head around it. And for me it was that's why she would say those things or that's why she would warn me about about these things. N: I feel like all I could give him now is photographs or conversations and experiences and talk about those things as a family. And hopefully he's old enough to where my dad could even tell them about those things. N: And it come from direct person who actually came here. Instead of just having to hear from somebody who was born and raised here. It's very different. N: And I think that's why it's these types of conversations or interviews are important because you get a glimpse of somebody's authentic life and who they truly are. N: So hopefully it's not me having to do all of those conversations. Hopefully it's between him and my dad or him and my mom. Hopefully. We're in that that time with them too. If he ever has any questions, it's coming from somebody who experienced that themselves versus just me. So I think that's key to just keep having those conversations, those stories, keep telling them. A: My last question for you is, I mean, I think one of the things that you talked about him in his interviewer and the various conversations that you've had with your family with them just kind of asking you what was it like in the North and vice versa. Just stories that you were told, what life was like there. A: And so I'm kind of curious. Have you had a conversation with your parents about how important or how pivotal this trip was when you were ten? And if not, or if even if so, I'm just kinda wondering, what do you feel you wish to older generations or younger generations, the ones that are coming? What do you, what do you hope that they would know about your experience that is important and how you identify yourself? A: I mean, like I said, I'm kind of curious to know how much your parents, how much they know how influential this moment was. He said something that you've talked about? N: Oh, for sure. I think as soon as we got here, I mean, I started to tell him like: Oh, we went to this place and we went to, we went to the tianguis on Sunday and my tías gave me a Domingo and all this stuff like the smile on their faces was just was That's how, you know, you know, like they were they were like, Oh, well, yeah, yeah, yeah. N: Like, I feel like we couldn't have those conversations prior about those specific places and us visiting places that they've been two or 0 like we went to. La Esquina Blanca, which is in English, it's the white corner. N: But it's like this corner where a bunch of people hang out and they have smoothies and stuff like that. And just and I'd be like, Oh, we went to this place and they were like, Oh my gosh, they still call it that. N: And they, you know, I think we were finally able to have these conversations comfortably to where I truly understand like, oh, I feel like we became closer as a family because even now, she's like “Do you remember when you were ten? This this lady that you go up a little bit and then it's next to the blue house?”, like it, That's how small it was, the town. N: So I think as soon as I was talking to them about all the things I got to do, all the places, all the things that I saw, they just smile the whole time and I feel like they just were grateful that I went in. I truly saw things for myself. N: And what I would, what I would probably like my best advice to younger generations and older generations? It is for older generations to not stop talking about those things. You know, to just truly find out where your family came from. N: Like if you were born here like me and have no knowledge of anything, I think the best thing that they could do for themselves to truly find out who they are and where they came from, is to start from the root to either go there, ask about it, do research, talk to their older generation if possible. N: Because that was very influential. N: And I know, I know that. I'm not the only one that has, you know, has done that. But me and unknowingly going on vacation for two months. N: But I feel like more people need to start doing research or asking questions to get to the root of that. And for older generations to not, not stop that conversation from happening. If anything. Teach them and share all of those experiences. N: Because it is important for people to know where they came from. Otherwise, you don't know, that's a part of you. N: You can say, like I did at the beginning, I'm a teacher. I was born and raised here and that's it. You don't want to. Although people are okay with just saying that like there's just more to it than that. N: There's a reason why family is a certain way or family does certain things. I could start a tradition and it could start with me. N: But everything that we were taught came from somewhere. So I think that's important to keep, keep doing that, keep having those conversations and sharing them. Language of Interview English, some Spanish Format Video, audio only, text only Video City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Trancoso, Mexico Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Wichita, Kansas Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Nydia Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Mexico to Wichita, Kansas Description An account of the resource Nydia is a first grade teacher in the Wichita area and her parents are from Mexico. Before the strict regulation of the U.S.-Mexico border, she remembers that her family used to go to Mexico more frequently. Nydia speaks about the prevalence of community and how the same sense of knowing one another is not as common in the U.S. Her advice for the younger generation is to find out where their families came from. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Marta Caminero-Santangelo Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Late 1900s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Wichita, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_8drchrvr" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_8drchrvr/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Nydia"></iframe> Community Identity Mexico Wichita Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Video Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Aron Muci City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Nicaragua Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Wichita, Kansas Intermediate point in journey (1) City/State or Country to which interviewee (or parents/grandparents) traveled before coming to current point of residence Los Angeles, California Transcript Abel (A): Aron (M): A: When I think of stories that sort of attached myself to my identity, I think a lot of our celebrations, I think one of the things that I like about my parents is that they always, even though we live in the United States, were born here, and you know they immigrated here, I think that they still taught us and embrace their culture from Nicaragua. A: And they taught us a lot about the cultural beliefs and celebrations and the way that a lot of people from Nicaragua, the food, the music, was always something that they shared with us. And I think that always helped us, at least for me, at least identify with that. A: And I've always had a huge pride in that. I know that for, especially a lot of people in the United States, it's very typical to when you assume you look at a person that looks hispanic or whatever, a lot of people assume that they're from Mexico because a large portion of them are usually Mexican. A: And I remember always being a little kid and when people would say that, I would always correct them and say “No, I'm Nicaragua and my parents are from Nicaragua. A: And that was always instinctual to me because I wanted to ensure that no different, my culture is different from what people will assume it to be. I think I've always had that identity and I think that it comes from my parents, you know, through the, we call it the purisima, which is a very important celebration in December. A: It stretches from the end of November to December 7th. I think that for Nicaragua it's a celebration of the Virgin Mary. And for Nicaragua, the Virgin Mary of Nicaragua is the Virgin of the Immaculate Conception. And so it's a very huge celebration. A: And so every day along that week, seven to nine days span. Every night, we have certain prayers and songs that we did. And some of my earliest memories are always going to be me and my sisters and my parents all doing this every day. Singing the songs, being the prayer, being together and being collected. A: It so happens that my birthday falls on what they refer to as the Gritería, which is kind of when the whole country as a whole goes out and celebrates it together so people can have stalls and a lot of people will have their own kind of altars and stuff dedicated to the Virgin Mary. And people can come along, they go out, they saying they're singing all the songs that were specially created for celebration and they go out. There's, It's basically like a huge party in the streets. A: And the way my parents always describe it as just a beautiful moment where everybody is connected and together. I think for me, having my birthday fall on a very special day, my mom always said that it's one of the greatest gifts. And I think for me that's always sort of attached myself to my culture. And I think that that's a huge thing for me when I think of, you know, part of my identity in that sense, as a Nicaraguan. A: And I think that, I think about that a lot in terms of other ways of how I identify, I think that as a person in the Midwest, they think that, you know, I think benefiting from living in Wichita, which is one of the most populated cities in terms of the Latino population, I think that that has certainly helped because you certainly see a lot more than I know, like a lot of other places in Kansas. I know a lot of other people who don't see that many [Latinos]. And so you're just surrounded with a lot more traditional white Caucasian people. A: But I was lucky enough to see a lot more of those people. And I think that it definitely helps because you feel like you're not as alone or isolated. And so I think that that helps a lot. As a first generation immigrant, I guess I didn't really realize the weight of that… really until a lot later. A: So when I got older and I really started to see, like, the significance, I think for me, you know, talking with my parents, I realize a lot of the things as I'm getting older, the things that they did when I, when I, when they were my age. And seeing the parallels of how our lives are very different. And how when they were in high school growing up, stories of them trying to go to college and that stuff, how they studied. All those different things are stories that they shared with us as motivation and, um, you know, trying to inspire us to achieve high aspirations. A: And I think for me that was always something that was very important. I think I always knew that being a part of–like as the Latinx community, I think there is a lot of expectation because of the way there's a lot of racial tension, especially with immigrants in the United States. I think there's always, for some reason the pressure to impress a lot of the times. A: You have to impress in order to somehow get acceptance or to somehow show, Oh, just because I'm Latino. Just as worthy or are just as capable as, you know. Another person. I think that that's something that a lot of minorities face is this idea of, oh, you have to be the smartest person in the room or you have to have a huge accomplishment so that as, you know, as a race together, as an enthicity, we are able to show people or prove like no, we're capable people were hardworking, are smart where dedicated, passionate, creative. Hey, I think that that holds a lot of pressure. Certainly. And definitely now, some argue that it shouldn't have to be that way. A: But there's certainly that feeling every now and then, now and again. But I think going into college for me, I think a lot [about] being a McNair Scholar and for me being a first-generation college student. And embracing part of my identity, seeing that my parents were able to come here and…an enormous sacrifice at an age where they were still extremely young. A: I think about it all the time. I mean, at my age, you know, they were coming here. And I think about that, what could, I could imagine trying to move to a completely different country with a language that I don't even know at my age sounds like an intimidating task. A: And so for me, being a McNair Scholar and having an opportunity to attain your PhD, a very high degree, a high honor. Something that very, very, very little Latinx and African Americans have really been deprived of just because of how much of just education and access have been given to a lot of white Americans over the past several decades. A: And so just being part of a very exclusive group always is a huge honor of mine. And I think for a lot of reasons, I always think about that—of being a part of the Latinx community is a huge honor. A: And I know that even though I have a lot of privileges, being born here, a citizen, my entire family are citizens, I think that there's still a lot of personal struggles. A lot of people who aren't as lucky as I was and a lot of other people. I think about them a lot. A: I think about them because I still identify with the culture. I think when my parents and I, we were able to go to Nicaragua because of that benefit. Something that a lot of people can't do, were able to go to Nicaragua and visit my cousins and my aunts and uncles. A: And I think that experience, even at a young age is very interesting. I remember going–because obviously we've gone before—and we first went when I was about eight years old and I remember bits and pieces about that, but I wasn't old enough to really encapsulate a lot of the differences of living here [in America] and there [Nicaragua]. A: We were able to go back when I was a lot older, around 14, 15 years old. And I think that time when I'm, when I really started to see kind of how huge of a world of difference it is. And how much of a just cultural shifts it is from going to places like Nicaragua to the United States. And just seeing the different ways of life of how it made me see the incredible amount of privilege and fortune–so many things that I think a lot of people take for granted. A: It definitely put a lot of things in my mind in perspective. The amount of benefits that I've been able to receive and a large part because of my parents again, taking that sacrifice and having the courage to do that. And so there's a lot of that that comes. And that's why I think there's also a huge motivator for me to not squander that type of opportunity and to take advantage of being able to be here. A: And so I think a lot of that is definitely attached to my identity. I think a lot now–I have my own personal feelings about, you know, growing up. I think what—I think of a lot, especially now as I'm getting older, I think about how when I was a little kid before I started school, my mom used to say, “Oh, you spoke a lot more Spanish.” A: When you were younger, obviously, tucked into my mom all the time. I was able to speak a lot more Spanish. But once I got into school, I mean, I was just so surrounded by speaking English that it just became more primary to me. A: And I think the sad part that I feel is that I don't ever really remember a time being more confident in speaking Spanish than I did in English. And that's always been in conflicting feeling in a lot of ways. Because I remember going to school and being in ESOL. And I think that as a program, the intentions of the program are good. I think it is supposed to help a lot of immigrant children–their parents don't speak English. So the assumption is, oh, well, this should help them not fall too far behind and they can help them speak, learn, read, write in English. A: While I definitely see it from that perspective, I also see it from a way where I felt like, you know, in a way sort of feeling like, oh, it's like Spanish is something that I have to put aside. And instead I have to focus on proving that I can speak English and have that as a primary language. A: I remember very early on because I–for first, second, third grade, I was speaking English almost basically fluently. Mostly because like I said before, I had two older sisters and so we always spoke English to each other because they've been in school for a lot longer, so now they're just used to it with their friends. A: And so I was– always remember having good English skills. But I was still in the program for a large portion of the first few years. I had to take the ESOL tests–every at the end of the year. I remember that in order for me to technically get out because I remember in sixth grade, they had put me in ESOL and I remember my mom being very upset about that because she was like, You don't need that. Like, I don't understand why they would put you there. And I remember we had to go downtown and we had to fill out this form to essentially get them to not put me in there. A: And I have this very vivid memory of being there at the desk with the woman that signed the paper. And I remember she said, you know, obviously this is a big decision, like you're going to have to work really hard to make sure that you don't need it. Which at the time I laughed about it because I was like, yeah, but I'd always stuck with me because I don't know–I think that idea of like, well, I obviously don't need the program and so I think that idea of like, well, you should work harder as if I didn't already have enough skill or control to clearly prove that I didn't need it. A: But even then, like almost the whole sixth grade year, I was still in the ESOL program. I was still doing and taking that class until towards the end when I guess somebody was at the school was like, oh hey, we just realized that this student shouldn’t be in here and then I had to switch to the regular language arts class. A: But even during my seventh grade year, I had seventh grade language arts, but I also had a supplemental English course. And I remember just being in that class and just always like it was basically a free period because I had no struggle doing any assignments. And I remember the teacher being there and she would say, you know, I remember she told me one time she was like, “I have no idea why you're here. Like you do not struggle at all. Like, I honestly have no idea why they put you in this class.” A: And I was like, yeah, I don't know. So I think for me. And even then after that obviously didn't have any supplemental classes. But in high school I still like to take the ESOL exam because ESOL exam, in order for you to completely clear it, you have to have a perfect score or a near perfect score across the different categories, not once but two years in a row. So it doesn't matter if you have two perfect scores. If they're not consecutive, doesn't count you stuff to retake the test at the end of the year. A: I was able to do it, I think by my sophomore year in high school because I remember like the extra period of time I didn't leave class, I had to go into this room and take this test for a bunch of other people. And what I thought was really funny is like I remember there's a speaking part where they play like a cassette tape or whatever and they say something and you're supposed to repeat it. A: And I remember something that was recorded that even in the way that they said it in English was wrong, it was incorrect. And I remember being like, well, I think it's ironic that I'm taking this test to improve my English when even the recording itself isn't proper. A: And so there's a lot of feelings in that. And I think that growing up now, I feel like having this. I don't want to call it subliminal message, but the message of–I had to prove time and time again that I could speak English. And English was the most important thing that I had to know in order to succeed. A: So part of that, I think also makes me feel bad because I know that as a result, my Spanish isn't as good as a lot of other people because I very rarely use it. I only really use it to communicate with my parents. And if I ever go to Nicaragua or I'm with my cousins, then obviously I have to use it. A: And I think help working has helped a lot. I think working, communicating with more people and speak Spanish has certainly helped me be more confident because I used to be very insecure about it. I used to not want to speak Spanish to people because I was always self-conscious about it. A: Because I knew that if I made a mistake or I said something grammatically incorrect, that would be made fun of or because there's a huge thing in the Latinx community, especially from older people to be able to speak Spanish. Because that is part of our culture, that is part of what distinguishes us. And so for as a Latinx person to not be able to speak Spanish, it feels like part of you is something wrong. A: And so over time I've been able to be more confident. There are certainly things that I would like to improve because I would like, you know, whenever I have children, I'm able to teach them how to speak Spanish because I do want them to have that skill because I do think that it's incredibly valuable, not just being able to communicate with people who speak Spanish, but it is a cultural thing. A: It is something that is part of, you know, their heritage. And I think that it would be a shame to me to feel like not being able to share that with them. And so I've always certainly had those feelings, I guess, about my English and Spanish and I think that as an identity, I think that those are things that I've always have had sort of lingering around. A: But as I get older, I think that there's certainly an ability to improve on those things. I'm feeling more satisfied and I think recognizing that those things and saying, “okay, these are things that I went through and hopefully I've learned a lot from them and being able to share that experience. And I know how that feels. A: And what I feel very happy about is, for example, my nephew. I feel like something I always thought was really, really cool was whenever he spoke at a very, very young age, he understood the difference [between] speaking English or Spanish. And he would speak English to me, to his mom, to his aunt, like he knew who to speak English to. A: But when it came to my parents or to his dad, he would speak Spanish. You would know that oh, they understand better when I say it this way as opposed to this way. And it always impressed me that even at a very young age he was able to sort of put those things together. A: And I hope that, you know, every once in a while, I'll ask him, “How do you say this in Spanish?” So that he will say it and a lot of the time he will get it right or he'll make a couple mistakes, and me and my mom will try and correct him. And I think that it's important to see that. A: And so I, I guess in a way I hope that him growing up, he doesn't grow up feeling the way I feel where it's like not having that side of your culture and your heritage, but being able to embrace in how both a part of your life. A: So I think overall, I guess those are the main things that are part of my identity and culture. And I think that is a huge part of it. A: And I certainly also don't want to say that a person who is Latinx that doesn't speak Spanish at all is any less or any less part of the culture because a lot of the time sometimes you live in a family through adoption or something like that and you just don't have access. A: There are a lot of people from different cultures that, you know, don't know Korean or Vietnamese or whatever language their original family would normally speak. They just don't. And so there is a little bit of stigma there that I think that there's something that should be a little more talked about for sure. A: So I don't want to say necessarily that if a person doesn't, that makes them bad or, or, or anything like that, I just think from my feelings that's something that I've always had to grapple with myself. A: And so I think for me that I just would hope that if you have an opportunity to do that, you have the choice to. A: I think overall, I guess those are kind of bits and pieces of stories and different things that I kind of have, that have formed the way that I sort of identify, I guess, from that side. Aron Muci (M): Wonderful, thanks so much for sharing all that information, Abel. I have one question for you and then we'll wrap up. M: No pressure in this question. So if you don't have anything to say, it's no big deal. We can move on. M: I'm curious to know if you've learned anything about your cell with respect to your identity or with respect to anything else that you've discussed here today, in moving to Hays, Kansas? If that transition from away from Wichita to a smaller city in Kansas has enabled you to see anything or change your perspective in any way? Or if it's been confirming or in some way just kinda reassuring to show you how close and how connected things are. But you can, if you have anything to share about your transitions at Hays, Kansas from Wichita, that would be kind of interesting. A: Uh-huh. Yeah. I think I think this past year as a whole. I don't know how much of it is obviously being in a pandemic. And so you're a lot in your house a lot more than you probably would be, but it certainly has put a lot of people in a very introspective mood of seeing themselves and spending a lot more time in here. A: So if you sort of start to think, oh, what am I doing with my life? How are things going? A: And I think that for me being on my own for the first time, developing, maturing. I've taken a lot of, you know, I've enjoyed the process because it's helped me sort of what you've said–learn a lot more about myself. A: And there are certainly things that I've started to really learn about myself and really see in a broader way, both in a lot of different ways. And I think that that has certainly been a lot. A: I mean, moving to a smaller town, there's a huge difference in culture and people that you're seeing interacting. So before, I mean, living at Wichita: it's social. It's the most populated city in Kansas. You are seeing so many people, different people from different backgrounds. And that is really huge. A: And living in a smaller town like Hays, where the majority of the population is white, obviously you're seeing a lot less diversity. Being obviously in college and college town. You definitely see a little bit more because it's a university and so it's a little bit more open in that way. A: But I mean, if you are just walking around all of the stores, you're going to see a lot more, a lot less diversity. And I think that that is a little bit of a difference in that sense. A: And I've spoken to people that are like, yeah, when I was younger, I didn't have that many [Latino] people. I was the only [Latino] person. I was the only Mexican or something like that. A: And for me, I used to be made fun of or I was picked on or I was isolated and so I felt different. And so learning a lot more of that and seeing that sort of difference of city to a small city, it certainly has seen a lot of stuff. A: And being in [the McNair’s Scholar] program where, I mean, there were about four of us that were Latino. And I felt really excited about that. But I also realized in our program that there wasn't a single black student there. A: And I'm sure it wasn't intentional, but it was something that was interesting to me. And it was definitely something that–it was curious. And so there were definitely a lot of interesting things. A: We were able to have diversity in psychology class and we talked a lot about racial issues and LGBT Q class. And it was such an interesting open class where we were able to really talk about how we were feeling about stuff and have this open conversation. A: Especially in the city [Lawrence, Kansas] and the [University of Kansas] campus there are a lot of minorities that have faced a lot of racism and just blatant discrimination. A: And it's sad to hear, really sad to hear a lot of what people have gone through. And I fortunately haven't really experienced that myself. But it's definitely saddening to see that in a lot of ways. A: But a lot of people certainly worked through and worked really hard to make sure that that doesn't keep them down because, I mean, you have to keep working and moving forward. A: So in that sense, that makes it definitely puts things in perspective that there's a lot of, I guess, privilege in being, like I said before being surrounded with more diversity. And that's why there's a huge call for it, because it's important to freely associate yourself with people from different backgrounds to really understand them and to really see their perspective and their views and how their differences. A: And then not to see it as a threat or as being afraid [of diversity[. But seeing, oh, this person is very different than a lot of people have a lot of stereotypes because of the media or whatever. A: I think we're seeing real people in really talking to them and really understanding them. A lot of the time helps. But I think that that's something that I certainly have seen moving out here [Hays, Kansas]. A: And I think overall, the introspective, there are certain things that I've certainly have learned and seen that I think moving forward will certainly help me develop more and become more confident in myself and who I am and all of that I think is a huge benefit for sure. M: I have one other question, and this is in relation to your Twitter. And just trying to think about how often it is that you post what I'll just describe as “political post” or in one way that is dealing with politics and current events and politics of today. M: I'm just curious if you can speak a little bit to why it's been important for you to work on expressing your political voice. And what that's…and If you've ever learned anything about yourself in that way. A: Yeah. It's certainly something that, um, has become more a part of being–I think I've always had feelings and ideas even at a very young age. I remember even if freshmen, sophomore year with a lot of different issues coming up, I think that that is very important. A: And I think that I had a lot of certain political mindset. I think that I've always been somebody who values conversation, who values hearing other people's perspectives. A: Even if I don't agree with them. I find it because, I mean, I'm a person who is very inquisitive and wants to understand people. A: So understanding people's perspectives a lot of the time helps me see, okay, so I think of it this way. They think of it that way and it certainly helps develop that. A: For me, as I get older, especially with how things have been the past few years, I think that there's a huge push, especially for the younger generation, to have a more open mindset to a lot of different things. A: And I was raised–I've always said this–I was raised to respect people and I was raised to–I was never raised to hate on anybody. A: I remember meeting people from all different walks of life, whether they had different sexuality, different races, different whatever and I never had a harsh judgment of people. A: I always have this very early memory of being in sixth grade in our science class. And that was when the pregnant man, who was big in the news. And I remember sitting at a table and we're all talking about earlier. That's crazy. A: Because at the time, I mean, you didn't understand like, why that was I think I remember my teacher saying like, Oh, it's because he was a woman before, but now as a man, but he was pregnant before. And so that's sort of how it happened. A: And I remember when that [thought became] processed I was like, Oh, that's interesting. I didn't really think of it in a broader sense or anything that was I didn't think of it necessarily as abnormal. I was just like, Wow, that's really interesting. A: I've always had that ideal and I've always been somebody who, you know, I'm a huge person that wants to get along with a lot of peoples. So the last thing I wanna do is ever make somebody feel uncomfortable or, you know, in that way. A: So I've always been careful about what I say, how I say things. A: Especially now with how people use slurs and stuff like that. I've always been somebody who when somebody says, “Oh, you shouldn't say that because that hurts or offends somebody.” A: I was very receptive to that extremely early. If I heard somebody say, Well, yeah, I know that sucks. Don't say that because it may offend this person or this group or offend me. And I wouldn't say it again because I was like, oh no, like I'm not going to ever make somebody feel bad or I'm never ever going to make somebody feel– offend somebody. A: So I think that that's something that has certainly grown to be more tolerant of other people to being receptive. A: And so I think using a political voice is important a lot of the time, especially as a minority. Because a lot of the culture of the US is built on the identity of white America. And I think that trying to cross those bridges and actually make it the melting pot that it claims to be, uou have to be able to engage in these conversations. A: And a lot of the time, you have political stuff where, you know, because a lot of people aren't politically active through privilege, I think is a huge difference. A: So for example, like I said before, I have a huge privilege being somebody who was born here; I'm a citizen; all of my immediate family are citizens. So looking at an issue like immigration, immigration doesn't really affect us directly because we don't have to worry about deportations. We don't have to worry about does this law change anything here or there. It doesn't really do anything for us. A: But again, that's part of the thing where I have– my best friend does get impacted by that. Other people that I know definitely get impacted by that. And so being able to speak to them, understanding, I sit on a position of privilege that I have the not necessarily the responsibility, but more so like I feel like, you know, almost I don't want to say an obligation because that would insinuate that you if you don't do it, it's bad. But I do feel like an obligation that I have to do it because there are a lot of other people that would like to but can. A: And that's why I've put a lot of attention to learning about different things, learning about different issues about or know about an issue. I want to learn more about it. I want to be well-informed. I want to be understanding and explain this because a lot of people don't take that time to really learn about the complexities of stuff. A: And I find a lot of the social media stuff, especially with the past four years. I mean, with the president [Trump] that we had, I felt like I was almost always having to say, here's why this is wrong or here's why what is happening here is an issue. A: Because it's easy to just read a headline and take it for face value. But not understand exactly why. A: In the grander scheme of things, it doesn't make sense. And I felt like I wanted to express that to some capacity. A: Obviously on social media, it often feels like you're yelling or whatever, but I'm always open to those conversations. A: I feel like now with how much of a divide there is…I have a friend of mine who knows how political I am, and we both agree on a lot of issues. He's like, how do you feel? A: Because a lot of the conversation now is how different are people because of the divide of Democrat, Republican, liberal, conservative, whatever they say. Oh, we're more split than we've ever been. A: Part of me, because he asked, Do you feel like things have actually felt different?, I feel like in some ways there is because I remember even in 2016 before Trump was elected, I think that I remember having a lot of conversations with Republicans. What is your stance on this or that? And really gauging having a conversation, having a debate, not an argument, but just understanding what their position is. A: I feel like over time that has shifted from if you're different from me, like we can't have a conversation because I have to try to convince you that I'm right and you're wrong. And not that one side isn't wrong. A: Because I think that there are a lot of issues nowadays that have become political issues for no reason. I do think that there are some issues where you're just like, I don't understand why you believe this way. A: But I would still like a conversation because I want to understand where you're coming from. Why do you believe it or see it this way, as opposed to why a lot of other people think of it this way. A: But I feel like those conversations are harder to have because it's more sensationalized, it's more immediate anger. A: And I've had people who maybe a few years ago I would have been okay with having a conversation with but now are just so entrenched—because everybody is in their own echo chambers–and so you're not able to have a conversation because people don't really see that idea of, let's understand each other and try and see what's going on here. And I feel like that's not really happening. A: But I don't know. I don't know what the future is. I feel like obviously there is a divide and I don't know how that will get rectified, but I do think that I'm a little bit more, I guess calmer. Obviously, past this election, but I haven't been posting as much as I used to. A: But there is still a lot of–there's still a large push. A: I feel like with their younger generation, with Millennials and Gen Z, I feel like we see a lot of injustice everywhere and legitimate injustice everywhere. And I think that we growing up want to be part of an inclusive, tolerant society–a true, United States of America that isn't divided. A: I feel like part of that is understanding and being there. A: When you see injustice regardless of whether it is in your community,and saying, “Hey, this is wrong, this needs to be fixed or this can't continue.” A: I think that that's a huge part of it because, you know, being a minority, you see that a lot, you see a lot of injustices and discrimination and racism and all this other stuff. And you just want to hopefully live in a society that isn't that. A: So I feel like that's part of another reason I guess, that explains kind of thought process of being vocal about it and sharing that and saying, “this is wrong and we need to understand, respect people and understand like, you know, if it's not your life and it's not hurting you, that it shouldn't really make you upset. And it shouldn't have this reaction of immediate anger, hate, or fear, whatever it is.” A: But embracing people and just letting people live freely. And I think that that's kind of what I do a lot, at least on social media, is trying to invoke that and speak more freely about those type of things. M: Okay. Wonderful. Thanks so much. Abel. I don't have any other questions for you or anything like that. So we have gone for about an hour here. M: Do you have any questions for me about how this project will be used or anything like that? A: No, I don't think so. M: I think I'll get back in touch with you if we want to follow more with anything else in particular, as I mentioned, it would be really great if you could share with us some social media posts, if you have anything that you'd like to share as an example of an expression of your identity in one way or another that would be really helpful for our project. But otherwise, I just want to say thank you and don't hesitate to reach out if your mind changes on anything related to this project. Like I say, if you would choose to be anonymous or if you would choose to withdraw your information from being used in the project, you can always do that at any time. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Abel Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Nicaragua to Wichita, Kansas. Description An account of the resource Abel lives in Wichita, KS and is the son of two Nicaraguan parents. He was a McNair Scholar during his time at the University of Kansas: he has also traveled to Nicaragua. He appreciates how his parents shared Nicaraguan food, and celebrations. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Wichita, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_fwelbupx" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_fwelbupx/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Abel Trimmed"></iframe> Community Education Identity Language Nicaragua Wichita https://comingtotheheartland.org/files/original/a80289b74a62a444ef8814961d1b9348.PNG dcbefce5ad613cfc1b9e45a91d86bbfd https://comingtotheheartland.org/files/original/7d385b92983cf80f8545b25ee018a666.PNG 6a1503b70bc62c30d17048a66d7aeec8 https://comingtotheheartland.org/files/original/3b48dfd9646d41319e16b0e06222d8b6.PNG 2c149f5691818900728950719970093e Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Language of Interview Spanish Format Video, audio only, text only Video Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Yuvia Serna City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Uruguay and Paraguay Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Lawrence, Kansas Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Agustina Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Paraguay and Uruguay to Lawrence, Kansas. Description An account of the resource Agustina is a student at the University of Kansas. She is from Paraguay but has also lived in Nicaragua and Uruguay. Agustina arrived in Kansas to further her education at the University of Kansas. She talks about the importance of education, what it is like to be Latina, as well as the cultural differences she experiences. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <br /><iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_uo81lc6y" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_uo81lc6y/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Agustina Trimmed"></iframe> Community Education Identity Lawrence Paraguay Uruguay https://comingtotheheartland.org/files/original/f8d98cc250cf01fc422cc230a62635a1.jpg 58c6489719a313999a82541c9b840e29 https://comingtotheheartland.org/files/original/3e1e317c2e304f06d10d9fe7749984f9.jpg f38e8234d20c2ba9b0f550448bb9cc46 https://comingtotheheartland.org/files/original/0e0e1ee5849f5dc3d1749897cb410c03.jpg de04603d906aea786f8a6d7bdb62175c https://comingtotheheartland.org/files/original/e2e668a0ce2845ab44fdd8af1f76f621.jpg c3c669ed4a38852cbcdf0183f29a71b2 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Format Video, audio only, text only Audio Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Yuvia Serna City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Chiapas, Mexico Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Kansas Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Aileen (A) Yuvia (Y) A: My parents both immigrated here, they came at different times. But my dad came from Chiapas, Mexico and my mom came from El Salvador. And she came, I think, when she was 17 or something and she was a house cleaner, but she went back and forth from Mexico to California, to El Salvador to California. A: Then when my dad came, I think he came to work [in] agriculture probably. He also went to California first. A: But they got married in Mexico, had my brother and Mexico and then they would live in California for part-time and then go back for a few years for two of their kids because my older sisters were born in California. A: And it was for me, I was born in Kansas, obviously. A: But it's interesting because it's like a whole, it's a whole different life with them. There's so many things that I didn't know, so many experiences that are so bizarre to me. A: I remember my mom was telling me that she worked on a coffee farm and she's like, yeah, they pay me like $0.05 a day. I'm like, Mom, that's not working. And she's like, No, that's fine. We bought tortillas. Mom. That doesn't…No! A: Or she'll just talk about like having to catch three buses when she was like seven to go beg her dad for shoes, like money for shoes to go to school. And it's like, it's weird, it's just like one or like one generation off. But the things that they've experienced is barbaric. A: And I think that it makes us as a generation feel really guilty because here we are sitting pretty in our air conditioned homes and our kids have all these gadgets to play with and all the time they're just like, I didn't have that when I was little or when I complain about you probably maybe you did. I don't know. You probably did. A: But the different parenting styles that I've noticed, like our generation doesn't want to hit their kids and our parents. They would beat our [expletive] if we did anything wrong. And they're just like, Well, I got beat in school. I'm like, Okay, but I didn't beat you in school. Why would you–why would you do that? A: And it's just so fascinating because they're not bad parents. It's not just, it's not just them. It's across cultures. I've noticed. It's Latinx people, it's black people, It's Asian people. All immigrant parents are very similar when it comes to this stuff. A: But there's just a disconnect. It's almost as if like it's like when they grew up they were just, I don't know, like objects that people could control. So then when they were older, That's what they expected from young kids. A: And I've noticed that with older people now when it comes to voting and social justice, they're really annoyed with younger people because it's like, well, why did they have to be out-spoken like this and this, and I think that it’s them projecting because they never got to do that. They just, they just didn't. And it's so weird. A: But the biggest thing that I struggled with was one that guilt that I wasn't living up to my potential for everything that they did come in here, working shit jobs–four jobs at a time to provide for their kids. A: And what am I doing? I studied political science and I graduated, but like I'm not actively doing anything with my degree and I feel so terrible because they've put in so much effort for us. A: And I felt like I just kinda came up like a dud. Like what am I doing for them? A: But just like the guilt that we have to validate, they're coming here and make it worth it. A: Even though it was their choice. I wasn't around, I didn't contribute to them coming here, but I don't know. But guilt has been a big thing for me. A: And I guess the second thing is having that disconnect to the motherland. Like we got a taste of their culture, but it's all Americanized. And so a lot of us don't speak Spanish. I do, but mine is very conversational. It's fine. I could write a paper, but it wouldn't be great. A: Then my kids will probably speak it very brokenly [sic] and not super great. Which sucks? A: But that's something that they, I think they kinda, kinda gave up hope on that because I know from my parents a lot of their grandkids don't speak Spanish and that's disappointing to them. And it's difficult. I think it feels kinda like rejection because they can't really communicate with them either. Because they had to learn English here. We had the privilege of knowing English and Spanish. A: But that is a whole different thing. I don't know if you've ever heard of what's it called linguistic discrimination. A: But pretty much when we were younger, we were interpreters for our parents, right. Because a lot of times they didn't have Spanish literature at the bank, at the grocery store. They didn't know what the hell was going on and they expected us to interpret or more like eight years old. A: And I'm at the doctor's office. Unlike mom, they're talking about your blood pressure, your cholesterol, this and because they didn't have interpreters available. And depending on where you lived in the US, if you live in a small town in Kansas, there's definitely not someone who speaks Spanish, who they're paying to interpret for you. But if you live in a bigger city, there probably is. A: But the whole thing with linguistic discrimination is that our parents had an accent. And so they got discriminated against because of that or our parents–you know that language barrier just it caused so many problems for them that we felt the pressure to fill in those gaps. And how to make it better. A: And at a young age, it kinda messes a few because if you do something wrong, like it all falls on your shoulders because you're the one that didn't interpret it correctly. So that was interesting. A: When I was an adult and went to college and learned all these things, I realized how traumatized I was, but it's fine [jokingly]. A: I don't know. I guess the last thing is because there's so many of us people my age, I want to say like a third of the people my age that I know that our Latinx, they're not citizens. And then the other half are the ones who aren't like, we have two completely different struggles. A: Like if they want to go to college, it's all out-of-pocket for them. And if we want to go to college, like maybe we'll get scholarships, most likely will get into debt. But at least that's an option for us and they don't have that. Or they can't just find a job like that and we can because we have a Social Security card. A: And it's just I don't know. Those things were interesting to navigate, but I don't know. A: Did you have any specific questions? I feel like I'm rambling. No. Y: You–you can go on. Now it's really interesting hearing your story because I can relate on so many different levels. I can echo everything that you've said just because I'm also a daughter of immigrants. Y: But you were talking about how that guilt and that sort of resentment. So as the child of immigrants, like you are, we harbored those. How do you think that impacted your future? Did you feel like because of those emotions or those sentiments, what did you do because of them in terms of like present day or in the future? What were your actions because of them? A: Yeah. Well, I think some people they kinda shut down. They're just like, no, that's not my journey. And we'll just play Call of Duty all day. Their parents complain, whatever. A: And then the other half, I think we become very type A people hyperactive. We always seem to be doing something. We feel guilty if we don't have a job, if we don't work. A: Like right now. Yes. I graduated and I'm doing part-time work, but I don't contribute a lot financially to my family. I'm mostly a stay at home mom. And the guilt that comes with that is awful because my mother had to take care of four children while cleaning house, while working in Taco Bell, while working for a newspaper. And I get to sit at home with one baby. And I think that's hard. A: Like I feel like I have no place to complain, but it just feels weird like not not working, not doing something that's moving. A: And part of that is I think the culture like we have a hustle culture now that when you're not starting a business that's worth a million dollars, like, What are you doing? You know, which that is a whole different conversation. A: But I think it worsens tenfold when there's just like that looming on your shoulder, whatever like in your brain telling you like, well, you better make it worth it. Are your parents came here for no reason. A: And then, I think another thing that is impacted, I don't know if he grew up in a multi-generational household? Like, I had my abuela in the house and sometimes we had tios in the house and then there's us and my parents. So there's a lot of us. A: But the problem with that is when my parents would bring some relatives over. A lot of times they would live in our house for a while. But these fools didn't work for a while because they didn't have social security numbers. I couldn't work. They just kinda hung out. A: And I think that was more pressured to work when you're in high school and stuff because you also have to contribute financially to your family then. A: There's just pressure all the time. It's like you don't get you don't get a break, which sucks. A: And then on top of that, I think is our problem with identities. We don't at least for me, like I'm a little lighter, fine. But when I grew up in a small town in Kansas. And so it was very obvious that it was not a white person. A: But then when I went to a bigger high school all the Mexican people, there were just like, you're not wrong. You're not Mexican. Like What are you talking about? I'm just like what? I just came from a place where they wouldn't let me be white and now you’re note letting me be Mexican, I don't understand. A: Then it's worse if you don't speak Spanish or if you have light hair, like light eyes, and it's not obvious that you're, I don't know, Chicana, I guess. That was weird. A: And like the state [Kansas] that we're in, there's not a lot of I mean, there is some diversity but not really in like a bigger places, I guess institutions, you could say, there's not a lot of people. I think there is a little more now. A: But now it's definitely cool to be diverse and to be including. But before I don't really think that was an emphasis that they had. So that's the story. Y: Okay. So if you could talk to not necessarily one specific person in your family, but someone in the generation before you, older than you, what would you like them to know about your experiences now? A: That they don't have to, that we know their struggle. They told us even if they didn't say the words every single day. Like we know and we feel we feel guilty for it or we feel responsible. A: And so it's not, even if I don't become president or whatever, I hope that what I did was enough and that what they taught me was enough. And I'll always show respect to the janitor, to the CEO with an equal amount that I'll never like. A: You and I were in college, which is great. But when we walk into an administration building, we don't see white people cleaning it. We see our people cleaning it? I'll never look down on them for that. Yeah, that's it. Y: And then to reverse, what do you want the generations to come to know about your experiences are what you want them to. Skills, Tips A: yeah. Y: advice. A: I hope that they continue to educate themselves on length, true history, to not fell separated like Americans versus us. Because we were here first, we are native. We absolutely are, like know who you are, know your roots. Like no real American history. A: The [expletive] they taught us like do your research. That way you never take for granted what's going on. And I don't know, at least right now, the big thing is like vote because I know my parents, they worked hard as hell to be able to vote and they voted ever since they were able to. A: But there's a lot of people in my generation who don't think it matters or who've fallen into that trap. Like they'll do it but they don't put research into it. They don't care about it. Just like know your rights and remember them because we worked hard for them. Just that. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Aileen Subject The topic of the resource An oral history from Chiapas, Mexico to Kansas. Description An account of the resource Aileen’s father is from Chiapas, Mexico and her mother is from El Salvador. In this interview, Aileen shares some of her thoughts about generational differences as well as her past experiences interpreting for her parents at banks and grocery stores due to linguistic differences. She also talks about the disconnect between how she perceived herself, as Mexican, and how others, especially Mexicans perceived her, as white. Her advice for the younger generation is to continue their education. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_qpqcsur7" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_qpqcsur7/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland_Aileen_Trimmed.mp4"></iframe> Community Education Identity Mexico Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Language of Interview Spanish Format Video, audio only, text only Video Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Yuvia Serna Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Lawrence, KS Intermediate point in journey (1) City/State or Country to which interviewee (or parents/grandparents) traveled before coming to current point of residence Ecuador Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ana Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Ecuador to Lawrence, Kansas Description An account of the resource Originally from Ecuador, Ana is a student at the University of Kansas. In Ecuador, she graduated from high school and attended the International University of Ecuador to study medicine. Later, Ana found herself wanting to seek a better education and chose to attend the University of Kansas (KU) because of its location and academic reputation. She participated in the Academic Accelerator Program and thoroughly enjoyed her “excellent” experience. One of the best things about attending KU is that she feels reciprocity: she cares about the material and the professors care about her. Her advice for the younger generation is to explore the world and stay open to new experiences. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Early 2000s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_myuyry7y" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_myuyry7y/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Ana Interiview"></iframe> Language A language of the resource Spanish Community Ecuador Education Identity Lawrence Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Audio Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Kansas City, Kansas Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Beatrice (B) Marta (M) B: Recollection of my childhood is growing up on 25th Street in Kansas City, Kansas, and it's the Argentine district. That particular district–our street had nothing but children on it. There…there were I'd say I was trying to think of how many houses and it was just like a ridiculous amount, like 30…30 plus houses on both sides. M: And which [unknown] are we in right now? B: We are in Argentine. M: Not decade…What year? B: This is like when I was five, so I–I'm 66 now. So that was 61 years ago. I was not quite in school yet, but I–I remember all the houses. And the one thing my mom always…I have eight brothers and sisters and my sister after myself passed away at the age of 17 months. B: So there we..I have seven living brothers and sisters, five girls and two boys. And at that time there was only me and the younger sister. B: And I remember all the kids and we could go out and play at the homes…were so totally different in that we didn't even lock our doors. I didn't know that, but I knew that the doors were always open and at night we didn't even lock’em. B: And my dad worked…There was on the corner of 20…I lived on 25th Street…so the corner of Strong [Avenue] and 24th was a steel plant and that's where my father worked for years and years and years. B: And the kids would go out to play around lunchtime. And when that whistle blew at four o'clock, we knew we had to be home. Four o'clock if we weren't home, we were in trouble because we all ate together. That's the one thing I remember is all eating together as a family. We may not have liked what we were eating, but that's what we're going to eat. B: But as I got older and I went into school–there was a school, a Catholic school right across the street. So everything was close to–the school was just down the road, not even a half a block away. B: There was a local grocery that's where most of–all our groceries were bought because we didn't have the stores like we do now, where you can go from Price Chopper, Kroger, wherever these stores, and we'd go out and play. B: But the interesting part about all of us playing is that we had enough for a couple of teams, baseball, which is what we played. The people down the street and across. So a caddy corner to where we live, a cornfield, somebody planted a cornfield. So in order to get to the ballfield, which was on 24th street, we'd have to run through the cornfields and I don't know what it was about it, but we could have walked, but we always had to run through these cornfields because I think we watched too many scary movies. B: But we'd get there. We’d play and then [at] four o'clock, the whistle would blow because it seemed like before you knew it, it was done. And we were back at home eating dinner. B: We lived in the–we were the second house on–on the west side of 25th Street. But like I said, we had–we had neighbors. It was–she was an older lady, but all her grandkids were always out there. So she practically raised your grandkids, which was very typical of a lot of parents–grandparents, they had their grandkids. Kinda like it is now. A lot of kids are being raised by their grandparents, but they were always at our house. B: Mom would say, well what's more, one more mouth to feed. But we thought we lived in a humongous house. We had a small porch. So of course, my desire is always to have a small porch, which I still don't have. But I have a deck in the back. B: But we–we–we would–we'd eat dinner and it just seemed like all we–we couldn't go out to eat…play afterwards because you start getting dark. And if we did, it was right in that…around the yard. But I mean, I'm not kidding you. That's the street that had the most kids. The kids were like–each family had at least five kids. I would say one of the families down the road, the Monroe family had 12. So they can have a baseball team all on their own. B: But we grew up with a lot of these kids. Lot of them were not my age. My cousins were my age, but I mean, there was [sic] houses all up and down the street. And lot of them –1965 is when they rebuilt that area, urban renewal came in and my family moved from 25th Street to 26th and Metropolitan [Avenue], and that's where my mother still lives now. So they've got a brand new house. B: I tell everybody when I because I–went to I went to St. John the Divine School for a couple of years. And then it was, well, of course, Catholic schools have always been schools which pay for and my folks could not afford to send me there. So I went to the elementary school which is three blocks down. It's still there. And then I finished there. B: In the meantime, I went and I graduated from Emerson [Elementary School] and I went to the middle school, which was Argentine middle-school, which is now it used to be the high school, but it's fifth grade and then it was sixth grade, you would go to the middle school. And I was one of the last…last to graduate from Argentine High School in 1972 before it became JC Harmon. B: But my friends, they didn't live on my same block because they were all either older or younger. But I had a girlfriend on 24th street and a girlfriend on 26th Street that we came and back then they had alleys so you would come across the alley and it wasn't like crossing streets. You wouldn't have to worry about getting run over or anything. B: So we hung out together, which to this day we're still friends. We see each other. Well, before all this [Covid-19 pandemic] happened, we were seeing each other once a month, getting together for lunch or breakfast or something. And they have families of their own and grandkids. B: Now, I’ve…I've been married for 33 years, but we do not have any children. I have lots of nieces and lots of nephews. We have…I think we have 17 nieces and nephews and 11 great grand nieces and nephews? On my side. Yeah. And my husband is–his family is all in Mexico City and he's got three-bit three. Let's see. He's got two brothers and a sister. And they have three…six…nine. So he's got like ten…ten nieces and nephews. M: So are you in pretty good touch with all these nieces, nephews? B: We just talked to my, uh, my nephew in Cancun. We were calling them about the hurricane to make sure he was okay. He said We're waiting for Delta. And I said, Oh, the plane? He started happy that the hurricane is it Why are you waiting? Because there's that the name of it he goes, Yeah, they used up all the letters of the alphabet. B: And I told my husband, Oh my God, I can't believe I did. That. It was Delta Airlines. B: Yeah, we still keep in touch. He does have a brother that moved here and he’s in Independence [Missouri]. We don't see him. We haven't seen them very much since all this would pretty much stay away from everybody. B: The only one [person] I see is my mom because she's–she's 89. And so for about two to three months nobody saw her. We were too worried that anything was going to happen. And I told my sister, you know, I'm at home all the time. I don't go anywhere. There's no reason why can't; my mom's going nuts. B: So I see her two or three times a week. I'll go down there and I go say “come, let’s take a ride.” So we'll take a ride and it's kinda helped her with her sanity. I think if I wasn't able to get in my car and go and just take a ride. I'd go nuts too. Yeah. Yeah. B: But it's…I see it so different when we're growing up. I mean, we did what they told us to do. These are kids. Back then…We all–we all married. And my wife, I have a brother who got divorced and then a sister who got divorced and we were all so devastated–because at that time, divorce was not one of the things that you saw that much, you know–but it was something it was it was a big step for me because being the eldest of all of them, I thought, you know, why should somebody be in something that they're not happy with? Life is too short. B: So I mean, it's, it's a lot of things change. But one of the things I'd like all my nieces and…I'd love for them to carry on the tradition of food. A lot of–some of the younger ones don't know how to cook. Now I do have one niece that cooks up a storm. She makes us look bad. B: But they…and we are all married too different…in different I married a Mexican, my sister married a Cherokee Indian. We've got all kinds of nationalities. And so it's different and you've learned a lot of different things. You may not like everything, but you either–you…don't have to live with them. You know, the hard part is living with somebody. So it's been interesting, but we've all learned. B: Just recently within the last couple of years. Well, we get along really well, [my] brothers and sisters. We have our arguments, but then it's–it's over. It's not anything that we're mad for years For anything like that. But within the last couple of years, we've–we've gotten together once a month to eat: we’ll go someplace and eat–just all the siblings. We’ll take my mom with us. B: And when–when the pandemic started, I still have a sister that says I'm not going anywhere. I'm not going to go on scared. She's scared. Well, I said I understand that you just have to be careful who you are around. And so we–we've been ordering from local places and we bring it into the house and they come over to–will go to their houses. B: And next, as matter of fact, next…Sunday, we're gonna get together at one of my youngest sisters’ [house]. The next to the younger sister it’s her turn. So we're gonna go to her house and have–I don't know what we're having yet. I didn't even ask her. Usually I'm the first to ask because I wonder what? She's going to have stuff and we're all going to go over there and it's really nice because even the boys go. B: And lot of time…You know, when my dad passed away in 2011…and he…the only thing he asked is that we take care of mom, which, you know, it was kinda like a given but he had to hear it. And he [unknown] the boys. Once he heard it from the boys, he was okay and he passed on. But the boys… B: All the girls have said we are so amazed that the boys have taken on the responsibility that they had because they were anything mom wants or needs, come and mow the grass and all that is done. B: But for years it's only been a year-and-a-half, but before that, somebody has always stayed with her. B: We have a sister that got divorced a few years back and so she went in to stay with my mom. She's there so we don't stay like every…if somebody was there every night. But it wasn't something that was a burden for us because we were just we…were raised that way, you know? B: I think I see a lot of the younger kids where it would be hard for them to do that. Because they carry around. My sister says “My kids already said that they're going to put me in a nursing home. I'm going to kick their butts.” B: I am I–I told my sister, my youngest sister, go, what am I gonna do? I said, I don't have kids. There's nobody to take care of us. And she says…She goes, “I'm going to take care of you and Ryan, her youngest, is my god son. She says “he's going to take care of me. He's already told me.” I said I've got all these kids are going to take care of me, so I don't think I have to worry. B: But I–I–I want to in growing up, I was used to being around just my area. Argentine was just the area. I thought that's all that existed. I had no idea that there was Turner. I had no idea there was Missouri. I had no idea. B: And when I went to high school. We ventured out to the Turner one day and got caught by truancy officers. But we told him we just took the wrong turn. I guess they are more vulnerable than we thought and we–we went back to school, but it was fun. B: I mean, I can't say I never skipped school because I did my mom [unknown] does and you thought I didn't know but I did. So we the girls say my girls, I know they're gonna do the things I did right there. B: So from–from high school, I got a scholarship, full ride scholarship, and I went to Pittsburg State University. I graduated with an accounting degree. First semester was really rough for me because I've never been away from home. I always wanted to call home. And back then you had to pay for your phone calls. Mom says, I remember her telling me one day, “We love you but you can't call the time. I can't collect want me anymore.” B: But it wasn't that it was just time for me to fly off. And then next, that was the first semester. Second semester, I didn't even come home because by then I was used to it and it was okay. And she was worried that I'd flown the coop. B: But I think part of my first semester [of] college was hard. I lived in a dorm. I had a roommate. She didn't like me. And I thought, why doesn't she like me? You know, she was a white gal and I thought “must be because I'm Mexican.” I mean, because people said, “Well, you gotta be careful because when you go away, people are not going to say, oh, you're different.” B:And so she…what ended up happening is that…she moved out of the dorm and I couldn't understand why that was one of the things that devastated me a lot because I thought I don't understand. B: And all the other girls were white girls from little small towns and I had no idea people lived on a farm with chickens. But I got to meet them, we'd go and stuff. B: But so next–the following semester, this girl that moved out came to see me. And she wanted to apologize for her moving out. So I want to know why you did it. I mean, what happened? Is it because I'm Mexican, Is it because I want to know because I'm out here in the wilderness not knowing what the heck. B: She says, Well, I had a boyfriend, she had a boyfriend. And Pittsburg State University down in Pittsburgh, Kansas is Bible Belt–Baptist Bible Belt country. She said “you weren't Baptist.” I said “What?” She said “you weren't Baptist.” She goes in and I could be that…I as like “I’m Catholic.” She goes, I know that was because you had to be Baptists. That was a shocker to me. I mean, I just, I guess I didn't realize at that point that there was different religions either. B: It was a big, big step for me and I had people, I've made all kinds of friends. I've got people that are, I don't know what religions there and it doesn't make any difference what they are. It's the person that they are. B: So I finally graduated from college, came back to come home and after being out on your own, it's hard. So I told my dad I–I didn't want to talk to him. But I said “Dad,” I said “I want to buy a house.” And go, Oh my God. Why do you want to buy a house? You know, you're not married. But what if I don't want to get married? I think it'd be a good investment, blah, blah, blah. So he finally agreed. B: And I bought my first little house. And this little house was the house that I met my husband like seven or eight years later, and I'd already been living in it. And when we got married, he moved in there and fixed up the house. The house looked totally different when he moved when we moved out, then when I moved in, but because he's very handy. Very, very handy. B: So like I said, we moved from there and when…I worked in different…my first job as a matter of fact, before I got married, my first job, I couldn't believe that I got a job. I've always been in the oil and gas industry. And I had my hiccups there too. You know people–people are not used to seeing different people of different colors that were used to the white people. And my boss, who was a very strong Catholic, so I thought, oh, we’re going to get along. B: Oh my God, he was–I remember one day he said “You are too gregarious” and I thought I don’t know that word. I was just freaking out. I didn't know what that word meant, so I had to go home and look at that. But what's wrong with being happy with talking and what's wrong with that word? But he was just…people would talk to me before they would talk to him and he didn't like that. He wanted to be the main one. But my years there…I was probably there 12 years and then they–the company moved to Houston. B: So from there I had various jobs but they've always been in the industry. My last job was–was the same way and they moved from…to…they all moved to Texas because that's the hub for the gas and oil industry. And I told…I was working this job. I told my husband, I…these hours are going to be crazy, but I mean, it's a job. Let's look. Working 60 hours a week. It was like crazy. And some days I'd see my husband's somedays I wouldn’t. B: I thought I was already 50 by then and I said, you know, I better start thinking about what I want because if I don't, then I might be by myself or might not and I have to decide what I want for me [sic]. B: So when I was like, I was by then I'd already been there [at the company] seven or eight years. I told my husband after the first of the year I'm going to look for a job. He didn't believe me. B: But I said I am. I said I think I need to be home more and I'm going to try to find something really close to the house. I know it's not going to pay well, but you know what? That's what I'm gonna do. B: So I went to go work for the Turner School District and my sister says, “Do you want to be a secretary?” I said “No, not really.” I said, “But I want my time to be busy.” I don't want to have to worry about three minutes. I'm well, probably five minutes from my house, three miles. I said I can do that for five or six years before I retire. And that'll be okay. I'll be alright. B: And at first, I didn't like it–because I thought I'm not doing anything that I learned all these years in school–but after the first year, my–my mind kept saying it's okay. You just do a check-in, you do it, get it done. So anyway, I wound up working there for six years and I retired two years ago…January it will be two years that [sic] I have retired. B: [Since then] I've been at home doing whatever I want to do and it's been great. It's been really good. But I tell my younger nieces, nephews, it's gonna be…because I have one that's a teacher and she says it's so hard. And the kids and I go, Yeah. It's hard…with I mean, I didn't have kids but I tell my mom, I don't know how you did it. You had eight kids and they have two kids and they're complaining. B: And she goes, well, I was always at home. I said, yeah, you were always at home, but I tell you what, I'd rather be working than at home with kids. I think it would be very hard. I only know because I took care of my brothers and sisters. Well, my mom was off doing–you know working sometimes. She didn't ever work out of the house but like she’d sew or she'd make food and sell it and or stuff like that. But somebody had to be watching the younger kids. So that was enough for me. B: But I'm trying to think of what else I can tell you. I don't know if I've gotten… M: I will totally agree with you that I would have gone completely insane if I hadn't been able to work while I [laughs]...had my kids. B: Well, I had my mom always says, Oh, but you made so much more money. I said, But you know, mom, it takes a while because you do you think make money, but you have to have your plan. And I said, making money at the end was not an important thing for me. I'm much happier now. B: And I didn't realize it because I thought, Oh, I'm gonna get this and this. I think I don't know. I never for a minute thought that I didn't want to retire. I mean, I knew I did, but I didn't know if we're gonna make it or not, but I think it's been–it's really been good. B: I have a friend who's 70 years old. She looks fantastic. You would never, never, never know. She looks…she looks like she's probably 60. I mean, she doesn't look bad at all. And she's scared to retire because she doesn't think she’s…she's on her own. I go, “You know what? You're gonna do fine” you're going…and she's been off for the last three months and we had a little talk last week and she says, “You know, I think I am going to be fine [cuts out] to go eat and I like to buy us have girl, you're not talking buddy. B: I used to go out all the time. I used to eat out everywhere. I said, “And you can still do that if you want. But you're going to find that that's not that important anymore and you don't have to buy something to wear at home–some days I don't even get out of my pajamas. You know, I did dress up today. Well, not dress up. Just put on a shirt… M: I love the flowers. B: Right? M: Yes. Can I ask you a couple of follow-up questions? B: Sure. M: Okay. So we were well into your story. You had talked about the different…like the different people that your siblings had married, Mexican somebody married a Cherokee and we were well into your story. I think we were past that before you actually identified yourself as Mexican. B: Oh… M: Could you talk a little bit about, like, that? Like did you think of yourself growing up as Mexican? Or what did you know about how your parents or grandparents or whoever came to Mexico…What did you know about that whole thing? B: Well, my mom…my grandmother was from Mexico. My grandfather was from Mexico. They were both Mexicans. And from what my dad tells us–told us because he's gone–is that they had money. They were–they were what they considered wealthy. And my grandfather would come here to work on the railroad. B: So that part always confused me. Okay. If you're wealthy…Well he [my father] says “We’ll you're wealthy if you're working the land.” And he says all his kids were little because my grandfather came to work, went back and he was killed. And my dad didn't talk about that for a long time, but he was five when my dad…when my grandfather was shot. And what they did was rob him of the land and the cattle. And so basically they had nothing at the end. B: I said, well, you know, dad and my dad was a very giving man. He was just whatever, I mean, his brothers…My dad was in [the] Korean War and he would send money. So there one day if he got married, he wanted to have money and grandma would say, “Well, we don't have money. Take it from what you need to.” Of course, when he came back, he says there was nothing. He says they used it all. B: You know, I kind of identify in that. Sometimes people think that because I use it as my husband's family, he came to the United States and they thought he was rich, but he wasn't rich. But he would always send money because it's, you know, hey, let's send him a little bit to get them by. B: So it was always that they've got that he had the money that he did and he didn't. And that's the way it was. My daddy said “I'd send money.” They used…and he's got money. He goes and then when I was going to come and get married, there was no money in the house. B: As a matter of fact, the house where my grandmother lived still stands. Probably built–oh gosh–it's gotta be over 70–80, now probably close to 100 years old now. And my dad got part of the house and grandma…grandma had step-children. And so the daughter was going to get some of that too. So when dad sold it, she got some, dad got some. But the house sold it and it was sold for twenty five thousand dollars. B: Can you imagine the house now? You can't even touch hours for less than two hundred thousand dollars. But the house is still standing and the guy that bought it got divorced, and so he didn't want to live there anymore. And my sister–my sister bought that house. And I want to say she's–she bought it for a little bit more than what he bought it for. I mean, he didn't–he didn't make money on it. He just got the money there. But she's got it and she's fixing it up and it brings back a lot of memories to see grandma's house there. B: But my dad would say that he lived–there was [sic] three–four families that lived in the house. The house is very small. It was like one bedroom, one bath, and there was… M: Where's the house? B: It's on 25th Street where we grew up in Argentine. And it was…there was a room, probably four by eight [feet], just real narrow, and they use that one as a bedroom. And mom said that's where she and dad stayed for a while before they moved out. But then dad had another brother and his wife, and I think it was only three families because my other aunt would only come during the day when he was working. They [would] drop them off and they were all there. B: The house is small…The living room was probably the biggest room of the whole thing, the bathroom small. And it's…it's perfect for one person, but not for a family of three different families. So I told my sister, I don't understand why you want to buy that house because I just want to keep it in the family. She's got a lot more tradition, she says, than we do. B: But when we moved down, when my dad bought the house down the street, he said that house sold for…he bought it for eight thousand dollars. I said “really, that's a lot of money.” I mean, I remember telling him that that's a lot of money. He said yeah, but, you know, we had one bedroom–one bedroom, living room, a bathroom, and then it was like a walk-through room to the kitchen. You had to walk through a bedroom to the kitchen. And that was it. B: I remember probably in the early–in the late sixties. I don't remember what dad put in a new bathroom and it was huge. I mean, there's the laundry room, the bathroom, and the bathroom that was there before became a bedroom for the boys because all the kids slept in one room; and mom and dad slept in the walk through. So we lived there most of our lives; we just thought that–that was the house. B: So I didn't–I've never really wanted a humongous house because I was comfortable in a smaller home like that. But we all live within probably six or seven miles of each other. So we're all very close. B: I have…well, actually there it's probably closer now because I had one [sibling] that moved closer in five miles within radius…all of us live within [this distance]. B: There was [sic] times when we were growing up where I moved out and then my sister went to school, came back…My brother moved to Nebraska for a few years at his job and then came back and decided he liked the area and he came and I both have accounting degrees. But he became a firefighter. And my other brother became a firefighter. B: The two brothers I have both were firefighters once getting ready to retire. The other one retired five-years ago now…and they're all younger because I am the oldest. And I have two sisters that are nurses. And I have a postal worker sister, and then the other one worked with me at the school district. B: So we all went to school. There's only one..two…one that was so close and didn't finish and we tried to get her but she didn't fish. She goes, “Eh, I'm okay.” Okay. But now she instills that in her children. M: [Unknown] that you're all you all went into basically professions that serve your communities. Fire fighter, postal worker, teacher. B: Yeah. Yeah. I–I would say I don't see you as an accountant. I love numbers. You know. I said I saw if there had been a degree and customer service or something like that, I probably would’ve. I think that's probably why I did so well in the district because I would see all the people coming in. And I enjoy people. B: And I think from–I always want to know what people were from. I want to know where they are. About their parents, siblings…because I had gone through things where I thought I don't understand why people don't…like I was telling you about my roommate. She did not like me. B: And, you know, the funny thing about her. She was so strict. She was a very strict Southern Baptist. And after her and her boyfriend broke up, she–she–she kinda went out of her own way. She was an opera. She became an opera singer, not professionally, but opera. B: And we were gonna get married. She said, I heard you're getting married. I want to sing at your wedding. I said “You do?” I said, Okay, I let her sing at my wedding and it was beautiful. She did a beautiful…opera at my wedding and she did a beautiful job. I have not seen her in probably 30 years now, but I've lost communication. She went to New York and she said, “I'm living with a guy, we're not married.” She goes, “I hope you don't get offended” that you're living with him, not me. I don't care. B: [Audio cuts out] but he's not–he's not–he's–he's…I can't remember what nationality which kinda threw me, but that's usually what happens with people that don't they they they don't know the world. She was sheltered in her own…kinda like I was in Argentine. You just learned to be around people and I've been with a lot of people they go they just insulted us…they didn’t insult me. I didn't say anything. I didn't take it personally. You know, I didn't take it personally because they're [the people who insult me] the dumb ones. M: But yeah. I mean, that’s fascinating that she wanted to sing at your wedding after she couldn't…Do you have no idea why she wanted to sing at the wedding? B: I think she probably thought, Hey, I treated her bad enough that I don't want her to think that way. B: And her family. Many times before that…No, after it was afterwards. I think twice I went to go see your family. Family was very nice. But I could tell I mean, I could tell that they weren't they were really surprised. And I said, “I don't think your mom or dad liked me.” No. No. But she says “What it is is they're not used to seeing.” She goes. B: Look, she lived. I can't even think of the name of the town because Pittsburgh, close to Pittsburgh is Joplin and then it's Oklahoma. But it's right before Oklahoma. Some[thing] Springs…Baxter Springs. She lived in a little town called Baxter Springs [Kansas]. I don't think they had any Mexicans or any kind of Hispanic groups. I think if they had blacks, it was would've been amazing. B: But I just recently…we went to my sisters. They go, we're gonna take a little road trip. You want to go? I said “Where are you guys going?” And they were going to go to Oklahoma and they're gonna go down and see the Pioneer Woman. I said, I know who she is, actually not one of my favorites, you know, I don't really wanna go. [My sisters said] “Oh, you need to get out.” [I said] “Well, let me let me know if you guys go,” because they plan stuff and then something falls through. B: So anyway, long story short, yeah, they were gonna go and I said, You know, I told my husband I think I'm gonna go ahead and go with them. I just need to get out. And he said, “Okay, go ahead and go.” I went… B: Well, my sister's roommate, I've met her before. And that's another one we've talked about her because she own…they own an ammunition plant in Winfield, Kansas, they have a lot of money. B: But you meet these people and to think down to earth. So down to earth, money is not one of the issues you can tell. But anyway, she–Sandy, my sister says, “Do you remember Noelle?” I said “Yeah, I remember her.” She says, “The only thing I asked you is don't talk politics.” I said “I'm not usually one that does.” I said, “You got it.” She goes “because, you know, they're not the same politics that we are Democratic Party or the Republican or Democrat.” She says, “We don't. We want this to be a fun-filled week.” And I said “You're telling me.” B: She goes, I know I'm going to tell my other sister that to us. Anyway, we go down there and it will go to a city called Pawhuska, Oklahoma. I think the number I read the when we were going it was like 8500 people in the city. And my concern was staying at a hotel. So we rented an Airbnb and we met owners. They're the nicest people. I mean, I was prepared to see how they were going to react to us coming. B: This is the first time in all the years that I've lived that the reaction was–there wasn't a reaction. It was just like regular people and it was kind of a good thing. It's more like there's more of a mixture now. People are just used to it, I guess. B: [Then] Sandy, my youngest sister, says, there…Noelle’s mom's coming. You guys have never met her. She goes, she's really nice, very nice lady. She originally was the owner of the ammunition plant, but as she's getting older because she's probably in her late seventies, maybe, she’s passing it on to her daughter. She says she's going to meet up with us. So we met up her and in [the restaurant] it walks is older guy–older man. B: And Sandy says, Do you know who that is? I said No. She says “that's Chuck Drummond.” I said “Chuck Drummond?” And she goes, “Yeah, you know who Ree Drummond is?” I said “The Pioneer Woman?” She says “That’s her father-in-law.” I said, “What's he doing here?” She says, “I just found out Noelle’s mom is dating him.” I said, “Oh my God.” She goes, “So just be nice to him.” She always tells me that because she knows I'm very direct. B: So we meet [sic] him. Oh, my god, this man is he was just…I was amazed because he's older, so I expected, you know, a little bit of a what's the word I want to say? Maybe he was going to be more…I can't think of a word. We weren't going to be as appealing to him, you know. B: No. No. He was just as accepting. That's what I want–that’s the word I wanted. He was the nicest man and he was…that was on a Thursday night and he says, We were just going to be there Friday and come back home. And he says, “You know what?” He says “Tomorrow, I want you girls to be ready at eight o'clock, I’m picking you up and we're gonna go for a little ride.” Okay. B: We're all ready. He took us to tour the whole ranch and where they lived. The family cemetery, which to me, I thought the family cemetery…how many people went? And we didn't get to meet his [daughter-in-law]…the Pioneer Woman because she was filming. He took us to dinner. He took us to breakfast first and then we had dinner at…there's a pizza place that they own too, and he was the nicest man. B: And I think to myself, you have 11 thousand acres of land. I complain because we have a quarter of an acre. There are people that…He talked about his ranch hand that he had. He said, “Do you like Mexican food?” and I started laughing. I said, “Are you serious?” He said, “You know how to make enchiladas?” I said, “Yes.” And he says “Girl, I'm coming to your house” and I started laughing at that. Maybe he doesn't think we're Mexican–that was my first thought [laughs]. B: What's my first thought? But he says, “I love those” and I said, “You know what, you can come to Kansas City. We're going to show you” and I told the girls, if they come to Kansas City, they’re going to have a feast because they're not the only ones that can show us around. But it was–it just depends. There's a lot of people that don't. But I mean, I remember I'm going back back [in time] again. B: But in high school, I didn't really have a lot of friends that were anything but Mexican. They were all–we hung around in a little group. Jesse, who you've talked to before, him and I are godparents to one of his nieces. And I mean, we're just because–it's because it’s my best friend's brother. B: And we didn't hang out because he was always what I told you I was with [unknown]. I would tell him. But he's old in high-school. Three years is a lot of years. You are pretty much at the same age. So we didn't hang out together. He would see us and we'd say hi and all that. But he–he is. As the time has gone on, we've seen we've seen more and more of each other. We help in the same food kitchen and different things like that. B: But just recently he [Jesse] got an award and I posted it on Facebook. One of the girls that I went to school, this girl I haven't seen them in about 40 years. I talked to them. I always talked to the people in school, but I didn't hang out with them. And now it's more…Oh, let's get together, let's do this. But come to find out this one girl married a Hispanic man. The other one didn't. It's the same boyfriend she had from when she was in… B: But as the years have gone on, all the groups were segregated. Now they're all together. B: I remember my dad used to say, it's easier if you marry your own kind. And I thought what is he talking about? But as the years went on, I understood. He said it's you know, it's hard enough to maintain a marriage to keep it intact. And if you have different…if you have somebody who's a different nationality and they have certain wants and likes or–it's harder. It's harder. That's what he meant. B: But it's been…I've had a good life. I haven't–I can't complain. The only thing I would have wanted children, but it wasn't meant to be. So that did not happen. M: Bea, I am so, so sorry, but I have another meeting at three. B: Sure. No problem. M: Don't leave yet. Hang on. B: Okay. M: I have a quick question and then I have one last thing I want you to say before three. B: Is it almost three? Yep. Oh, my God, it’s almost three. M: But we can always do a follow-up to send you an email asking for, like if you're doing this reunion with your six sisters, I'd love to see a picture of you and your sisters today and some old pictures maybe of you and your sisters to compare. That would be wonderful. B: Okay. M: Quick question is: Where was your grandfather shot and why? B: He was shot in Mexico on his ranch. And he was shot because I think my dad said that they were…[My grandmother was shot] because of the sale of cattle or something that he [my grandfather] wouldn't sell them. Because they know my dad actually know–knew who had shot him and he [the murderer] was still living. B: And I–I remember asking my dad, do you want to meet him [the murderer]? He goes “No.” He goes “I don't.” So I would have wanted to I wouldn't want to say why. I mean, a lot of it is practically out of stupidity…somebody told me to or whatever. But yeah. M: And then my last question is can you repeat, now that we're recording, the recipe for the chilaquiles with red sauce and scrambled eggs? B: Sure. You're gonna do some tortillas, you're going to fry them up, I like to make little squares or triangles. Fry them up in a little bit of oil. Put them aside to drain. You're going to cut up some onion, cut up some garlic. I put a whole onion and I put a clove of garlic. And if I feel two cloves, so it's kind of guess…and you sautee them in the oil that's remaining. Not a whole lot of oil. It's not more than one-fourth of a cup. B: And then you add tomatoes. One can of tomatoes with, you can add your jalapenos however spicy you and I'm doing blend those up, pour them into the–your skillet, saute it until it's sauteed a little bit. B: Then you take…I would start off with four eggs and then maybe add, I'd say with the can [of tomatoes] four or five eggs. And you scramble them and scrambled into your mixture. And you can salt, salt it. And then just scramble. I like my yellows mixed really good [sic], you know? And then I add the chips at the very end. And you're good to go. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Beatrice Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Kansas City, Kansas Description An account of the resource Beatrice grew up in the Argentine District in Kansas City, Kansas with several siblings. Her mother passed away when she was very young and her father worked at a steel plant. Although the family was often busy, they always ate at least one meal together. She went to Pittsburg State University on a full ride scholarship and graduated with an accounting degree. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Late 1900s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Kansas City, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_rtqyu0gn" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_rtqyu0gn/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Beatrice Heartland Trimmed"></iframe> Community Education Identity Kansas City Mexico