4 10 49 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Miguel Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Video Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Kansas City, KS Transcript Miguel (M) Marta (MC) M: So Tomás Rivera, really, the only interaction that I've had with his work is the film that they made from, you know, from his short story. And that just blew me away. I'm like, I know these people. These are my uncles and my aunts, and I know that I mean, my type of farmwork wasn't as grueling and migratory as theirs was, but I know those type of people who are hard working and everything, his mom. M: But then the users and, you know, the opportunists that were like the doñas that took care of him and buried people in the, you know, that's just crazy story. But yeah, I mean, that runs the range in the community. So I remember watching that film, like, Wow. That's a story that . M: That's like my story to know because when I was little, the closest thing that I knew to farm workers was Little House on he Prairie. So so I read all those books, and I'm like, It's not the same, but they're farmworking kids. So. But yeah, that's really all I knew. M: And whenever I tried to look for his work, it was always in Spanish, and I don't speak or read Spanish. I'm like, I know I'm missing a lot of stuff. So I'm just going to write the story that I know. And actually, that story came from a poem that I wrote about my mom called “Madre de los campos.” And I read that for Okay, you used to have this organization this program called Harvest of Hope Leadership Academy, and they would bring migrant kids from all over the state, and they would go there for like three weeks. M: And one year, they asked us at the collective to come and be mentors and give a talk to them. And I thought, Okay, these kids were farm workers like I was, and I've never really spoken about this. So I'm going to write a poem and I'm going to read it to them. M: And I got to let them know that this is real, that I'm not bullshitting them. They're going to be like, Oh, it gets better. I'll be okay. You're hard working people, you know, that's all true, but they don't want to hear that all the time. M: So I wrote I wrote in the poem how my mom, I just was like, really mad at my mom because we were farm workers, and you know, the farmer would cheat us out of money, and she would pay other people. And I was like, I'm never going to be as stupid as her. M: And the room just got quiet. M: And I'm like, Oh, that's the unspoken truth that we all farmworker kids have is that we love when we hate our parents, and you're never supposed to say anything bad about your mom, but I did it. And so then I continued on with my poem. M: And then I just heard some sobbing and crying, and I was like, I started wiping out my face. And when we were done, we just all started crying because it was like, The saw me and I saw them, and there was a real moment. M: It wasn't any of this like, Oh, if you work really hard, you can leave the field. It was like, this is just the reality of what it is to be a farmworking kid. M: I'm not going to tell you anything more or anything less. I'm just telling you that I know and I see. And so, after that. He gave him some books of Sandra Cisneros, she had come to the Kansas City Public Library, and we had a whole bunch of books and all these kids are like, Would you sign my book? I'm like, I can't That's Sandra’s book but please, would you? I'm like, Okay. M: So there's some books out there with my signature Sandra Cisnero’s House on Mango Street. M: But that was when I realized, Okay, I need to turn this into a short story because we're going to do the Cuentos del Centro. And so I expanded it and filled it out as much as I could. And then I started thinking, Well, I still want to do more poetry about farm work because clearly, there's something in me and it resonated with these kids. M: So even if I just write it from them every year, I go back and I just read them two or three poems, I want new things to write with them. So that's kind of what happened. And whenever I write, I always think of those kids, they're my first audience. M: My farm worker kids are my first audience that I write for whether I write for being queer or being old and being a fat guy. I'm just writing for them because they need to know that this exists in our community. M: So they're always my first audience. MC: That's really fascinating to hear that Latino farm kids are your first audience that's. M: Yeah. I mean, because it's a kid that's when I needed a voice in my head to say, this is what you can do. And so I'm kind of locked into that nurture that person that's in you. But then I see them right in front of me. And I still do some mentoring in Waverly, Missouri. We go to the Apple orchards and talk to the kids, and they have an after school program. M: And we just have these conversations and they tell me crazy things that have gone on in the fields and with the brothers and sisters and I'm like, Oh, my gosh. Yes. I remember those things. M: Talking to them makes me remember more because I was ashamed for a long time to be a farm worker. So I just pushed it down. M: And I remember I worked at this place in KCK called Harvest America. Their target group was migrant seasonal farm workers, and I worked there, and I never told any of them that I was a farm worker. I worked there for three years, and I I never told them because I just forgot. I just completely wiped it out of my memory. M: And every day I would go in and there would be a long line of people waiting to get services, and their kids would be in the hallway. And now as an adult, I thought, why didn't I just take a moment or two just to talk to those kids and say, I know it's tough, but, you know, I know what you're saying. M: But I never did. M: And so then when I got the chance to do that for the kids at the KU program, I'm like, I'm not going to miss this opportunity. I missed it once, and now it's my chance. M: So now that people don't get another chance to say what they need to say. So I did and I just figured, well, I'm just going to keep on saying what I need to say. So… MC: Can you tell me in brief. So you were a farm worker in the Midwest? M: No. I was a farmworker in Texas, in the Texas Panhandle area. Yeah, child labor. Yeah. And. MC: Yeah, wow. God. Is the story “Hijo con filo” supposed to be set in Texas? M: In my mind, it is, but I don't think I put a setting for it. I don't think I do. Yeah. But Kansas and Texas are very similar. The land is very similar. You would think that Kansas is flat, but it's got a lot of hills and valleys, the Texas panhandle is the same way; people think, Oh, it's just all flat, but it's got canyons and hills and valleys. M: Sometimes when I'm driving across Kansas, I'll be like, Oh, this looks like mo this looks like Palo Verde Canyon, this looks and I just start remembering all these places that are in the Texas Panhandle. M: And the people are kind of the same, you know, the racism is a little more over in Texas. And here, it's a little more subtle. They wrap it up in Midwest nice, but it's still the same degree. [both laugh] MC: You know, it's still the same. It's so funny. You know, Tomas Rivera, who's always associated with South Texas wrote this essay that no one knows about where he called the Great Plains a utopia. Like he had these I don't know, rose colored glasses when it came to the Midwest. MC: Maybe it was about Midwest nice and the less overt racism here. But he said something like, you know, in the Great Plains, we were working with people instead of for people. MC: It sounds like you grew up in Texas, right? M: Yeah. I grew up in Texas and in my 20s. I moved to the Kansas City area. M: But, you know, those early 20s are very formative years where you kind of set the path of your life. So I kind of was I grew up physically and mentally in Texas, but I came here and kind of found my path. M: I really just came here Kansas is a really Kansas City is a really great transitional place. So if you want to go to a bigger city, you can have that experience of living in a city. But if you want to go back to living in a rural area, you still have enough ruralness to it that you can you know, it's not that difficult of a switch. M: So it's really one of those unique places that it's both a big city and a small town. And I kind of just like, Well, I like the conveniences of all the big city and the culture that comes with it, although it's not always Latino culture. M: And then I kind of like the driving out a little bit and kind of seeing some fields and some planes and stuff like that. It's kind of very settling. I mean, there's nothing like seeing a big wide Texas sunrise, but Kansas comes really close. If you find it like an open space, it just takes up the whole sky. So yeah. MC: Sunsets are gorgeous here. M: Mm hm. MC: What brought you here? M: My oldest sister got married and his family was living here in Kansas and she was going to have a baby and it was the first baby. So everybody moved up to be there around the baby.\ M: And then everybody's moved away and I'm the last one here and I'm like, Well, I guess I'm like I put enough time in this area. I like, This is my home. M: This is my place. M: I mean, I love Texas, but I could never live there again because the politics is just too crazy, and I don't think I could deal with that overt racism again anymore. And that would get me in trouble. That would give me in trouble. M: But my family lives in Orlando and I don't think that's where I'll go, but, you know, you want to go where your family is as you get older, some, who knows? Who knows? MC: Yeah. Florida is a pretty dismal state too. It is. M: The politics are awful, but you know family. Just as awful. MC: So here's a question that I've been thinking about. You know, I talked to José Faus, who is also a founding member and to that and he's a muralist and I can understand how murals change the place and make it more Latino, right? Like incorporate Latino history. MC: Here's the question I'm struggling with. Can writing like the writing of Cuentos del Centro, can writing also change a particular place and make a place for Latino in Kansas City? M: I think it can because before the Latino Writers Collective, there really wasn't storytelling from our culture. It was just people having parties and drinking, and then they would tell stories that way. This kind of came a more formalized way of telling stories, and it was just really a way for us to work on our own work and try and get each other like, Hey, there's a place you can get published here. M: We really weren't, as far as I know, really big into doing public readings and stuff, but people wanted it because they'd never really seen it before. And so we do, Okay, we'll do it. It'll give us a chance to polish our reading skills and you get a tight lineup and learn how to do all that kind of stuff. M: And so we did. M: And then people just kept inviting us to do stuff. And especially around young people, schools, that we would get teachers who says, Hey, the only Latino in our school is the janitor. Would you guys come and talk to these kids be like a role model? M: So then our readings took on another dimension of, now, we have to be role models and mentors and try and lift the community while we're still right. M: So it wasn't ever just about, hey, I'm going to read some poems, and thank you very much. It's like, there's an extra layer of responsibility like multiple layers because you're trying to make the place better for kids and role model for them, but then they put yourself too high on a pedestal because then they're like, why, I'll never be like that. But my grades aren't good enough. M: So whenever I would read, I'd say, I know writing and reading may not be your thing. Maybe math is your thing. And then you just go for it. You tell your story and numbers and math. I said, writing is my thing. Math is not my thing. I'm bad at math and science, but some of you are good on those things. So whatever it is that you're good at, you tell your story to that. M: And then they would say, Oh, okay, because some kids they don't want to write because they think they're like a baby or they don't I know they just have trouble when you think about, oh, some writers are going to come in and I don't want to do this. M: But then we tell stories and sometimes they want to tell stories. I'm like, you don't have to write it down. I don't care about the grammar. M: Just tell me the story that you want to tell. M: Okay. And then they tell a really good story. I don't get caught up on the grammar. That's just we can fix that later if you want to write it down. So once you do that, you can kind of they can recognize that they have story within them, and being able to express that story or tell that story, it really does. M: It changes the place. M: It changes the way you view the place. M: It's like another way of that you're giving yourself permission to kind of expand beyond your body and your family, you can expand by telling the story. And that story goes to who knows whose ears it goes to, and they take it, they can accept it or reject it, but they can't hear it. M: So that's how story changes place here because you just tell enough of our stories and it will embed in people's story, whether they want to or not. M: Yeah. So I think story really can change your place. And if you can couple it with art, murals and festivals and all these things, there's all these other sensory things that come and they link what story is together. M: So there's artists community and they always focus on visual art and they don't include words or music– that really makes me sad because they're not getting the connection that these are all connected together, and people relate in different ways to different things. Some people are visual. Some people like to hear the rhythm. Some people actually like to have rhythm as in music. M: So they're really segmenting the society as a part of the culture that they want to engage, whether it's just paintings or an art show. M: That's why I really enjoy the Latino Arts Festival because they have food and drink and low writers and storytellers. It's just a whole day where you're like, every sense of you is engaged. So yeah. And that's how you change, you know, you make a place you are. M: You can change the perception. Even the perception that you have about a place,... MC: I can so tell that you're a writer just for play expressions. It's so beautiful. Have you seen changes in the place? In your time here? In Kansas. M: I have seen because when we first started the collective, I think there was about 12 of us. No, no, there was more because they had just put out their first book, the Primera Página. M: I think they had about 30 people. But a lot of people when they write and they get published they're like, Okay, that was it. That's all they ever wanted just have my name on a book, and I'm done. M: Then after that book came out, it fell to 12 people and then five people, and it would fluctuate, but I could see that there was a core group of probably about seven people who were constantly showing up and wanting to improve the work and looking for places to write and publish. And then another person would come and join. M: And so I could see how we were growing our numbers and we were teaching each other, so that the skills that we were sharing changed the literary landscape in Kansas City for us because people started to recognize us and want us to be part of their, you know, riverfront reading series. M: All these places that were closed off to us before, where if we were just individuals, they would say, thanks but no thanks. But since we were, you know, we had a good 10 people, you know, in our stable of talent, they would say, Oh, okay, we can do a whole evening, and that'll fulfill our diversity, whatever. M: But then when we got there, we blew their pants off. I mean, we just blew their minds. And then they would ask us to come back. And not just for Hispanic Heritage month or Cinco de Mayo, but just in other parts and other times. M: And then there were some local publishers who wanted to publish some chapbooks from members, and there's people who I think if it hadn't been for the collective, they wouldn't be published authors. So I know it has changed the place that way. M: The collective has kind of fallen to the wayside now. It barely exists. I think just in name only. M: And I really would hope that somebody could revive that. I really was hoping that, you know, it could go back into a nonprofit and do some grant writing and we could do all those mentor things that we used to do for free, and now there's funds for. Because back then, there wasn't funds to do all the stuff that we do. M: So I hope it has another life in it. M: If not for any other reason, then it's part of our history. I think it's probably been in existence for about 20 years, so you can't let something like that die, you know? MC: I would really I mean, on a personal level, I would really I would love to see a revival where a new generation of aspiring Latinx writers. M: Yeah. MC: Were mentored by you all. M: Yeah. We were kind of you know? Yeah, yeah. We were kind of moving in that direction. But then there was a little split in the collective where we had Spanish-speaking members who didn't want to engage in English, and some of us who don't speak don't speak Spanish, were kind of feeling like, Okay, well, we're not getting as much attention as we used to. M: So there was a whole struggle there. M: And then the collective put out an anthology that was just totally Spanish speaking, which was great, and I think it won some awards, and it really opened the door even further that, not only can we talk about culture, we can talk in the language that we choose to. M: And then after that, we were going to do an anthology of LGBTQ Latinx writers. We started putting that together, and then the collectives kind of dissipated. M: But that project always had some pushback. Some people didn't want to do it for religious reasons, and I was like, look, you guys got the Spanish anthology. I was the president at the time. I could have nixed that because the queer anthology was the next one up, but there were more Spanish-speaking members and there were people who would admit that they were queer. M: I said, Let's do the Spanish speaking one so that way we can engage everybody. And then if we do the queer anthology, we can have some dual language that's going on. M: But when it came time for that project to happen, it just didn't happen. And it was sad because there were some young people in their 20s and 30s who really were, like, excited about this project. M: And then the collective just kind of folded. M: I'm like, Oh, we could have had that project out because I was going to be my vision for that anthology was going to be it's a book that your tía could read on the bus. And she could just have the cover and read it and she wouldn't be naked people on the cover. Just something that she could learn and read about her grandkids or her nephews or whatever, and know more about what is this gay stuff? I don't know what's going on and just read stories from people who are from the community here in Kansas or at least in the Midwest. M: So that way it is not about people from California or New York because those are places that don't exist here, right? It's just some of this is in this Midwest area, specifically Kansas City. M: It would be people that they know or that they heard of our families that they've heard of who would be telling these stories. So I thought that would be an impact in itself. It didn't happen. I hope that it still does happen. It may be maybe after the anthology project. MC: Yeah. I have a niece. Well, okay. So what's the word the non-gender word I looked it up. I can't remember. There's a non gender word for east nephew. But I can't remember now because my brain. Yeah. But I have a child of my sister who is not gender binary. MC: And explaining that to my 95 year-old father, you know, is impossible. M: Yeah. MC: Oh, my God to hear a story. I really. Oh, my gosh. I would love I would so love to see a collection like that. Yeah. M: Yeah, I mean, and that was like ten years ago that we had this I'm like, because I think one of my abilities as a writer is I can spot trends that are happening or they're going to happen. You know, when you're a writer, you listen to the community, what they're talking about. I'm like, people are talking about non-binary stuff, and we need to be able to, and feel that it's going to hit our community, and if we don't know what's going to happen, the fear is going to take over rather than being open. M: So I wanted to work on that project and then it just didn't happen, thankfully, there are enough active young people out there who are talking about this. M: But it's not on a wide scale. It's within their families and with their friends. If we could Primarily Midwest either. MC: Yeah. I You're obviously an amazing writer and an amazing story teller. I appreciate that you're talking to me. M: Oh, sure. Yeah, it's more free flowing that way, and people kind of anticipate the answers they're going to give when they know what the questions are. This is going to make me sound good, and, you know, yeah. I mean, we can do that, but that's not like authentic, like, just telling the story. M: And when people start talking, they don't know things come up and, that's a good approach. MC: So that would be wonderful if I can get your story. MC: This was also super wonderful, and I so appreciate you telling me about the collective. M: Yeah, no, no problem. There's some way that we could revive that I could find some who have a little more energy than I do, a little more free time. Just sit back and be the elder who guides, but let them do what they need to do with it because it should go to a new generation. Yeah. Yeah. MC: It should and I would love to see the LGBTQ collection come out, there's such a need for it. M: Yeah. MC: There's a gap. M: Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, there's enough local presses now because before there was hardly any local presses. There's enough local presses now that I think one of them would say, Yeah, we'll take that on a manuscript. Yeah. Would, you know. Yeah. MC: Thank you so much. M: Well, thank you for being patient and persistent M: You know, I don't check my personal–I mean, my professional Facebook page very often, which I should. M: So yeah, I'll send you to my personal Facebook page and friend me there and you can send me a message. MC: Yeah, awesome. And I'll look up and try to find the farm worker– M: –Anthology. I'll send that to you as well. Okay. Well, thank you. MC: Thank you . Happy New Year. Happy holidays. M: You too. MC: Bye bye. All right. Be safe. M: Bye bye. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Miguel Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Texas to Kansas City, KS. Description An account of the resource Miguel is a queer Latinx writer who draws from his background as a farmworker in Texas. He currently lives in Kansas City where he aspires to help future generations of Latinxs tell their stories. Listen to his oral history to learn more about what it means to make a place your own via storytelling. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_g8jspprc" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_g8jspprc/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Miguel Interview TRIMMED"></iframe> Community Identity Kansas City Language Texas Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Radhia Abdirahman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Moutarro Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Moutarro (M) Radhia (R) M: Yeah, I can start from the beginning of everything, beginning of my journey. Maybe that might give you a picture of how I came here or why I came here. R: Mhmmmm. M: I was born. My–my parents are from Guinea. So my dad came from Guinea. So I would say immigrant to somebody else. And but my mom was also originally from Guinea but was born and raised in Senegal. M: My dad came to Senegal to find work to help to support himself and with my mom. And then I was born and raised in Senegal. M: And when I was going to school, I was in–I was in a classroom– Senegal is a very interesting country where people can come from all over West Africa. So that's the, that's this, the unique thing about Senegal–the Ivory Coast can also be like Senegal. M: But in my class, we used to say like who, who is a “real” Senegalese based on the last names, you know, I'm saying? So that was something that we used to play around with, joke around. And we would find that half of the class, actually, they're not from Senegal. So they are from Guinea, Mauritania, Mali, Gambia, Burkina Faso. Is some people from Niger or maybe Benin– R: Yeah M: But, you know, like we used to dream of like like, you know, after our school, after our schooling in Senegal, we used to dream to go to France. M: Any–any African who is from a Francophone country, it would mean the same thing, like you finished your high school [then] you want to go to France to do university there. M: That was our dream. That was my dream and [was the dream for] many of my peers. M: I was very fortunate to be able to have an English teacher who studied in England, but came back to Senegal and became an English teacher. So from all the whole, the whole middle school he was my teacher. M: And then he was not only just a teacher but a friend of us because he would invite us into his house. And once we go to his house, there's no more Wolof–Wolof is a local language–or no more, no more French, no more any other language but English. M: But that's when we got the love of English. M: That's how I get the love of speaking English and like trying to understand the language. And of course, the United States. M: I've never thought about England because even though he went to England, but my, my brain never felt like I was supposed to go to England or I want to go to England for me, it was the US. M: But first of all, it was France. France was the easiest way because we didn't pay [for] school. System is like a public university and then you can get a scholarship to go to France. But that was our dream. M: So when we have our baccalaureate, which is like finished high school and stuff, I didn't get a chance to go to France. M: But some of my friends, when they got the scholarship, they went, some of them paid for their own. They go and I was like [unknown]...you know, I gotta do it. That's fine. That's not the end of the world. M: So I'm Muslim. So also, being a Muslim is very important because for me, it helps me with believing in if this thing doesn't happen, it means that God didn't allow it. R: Yeah. M: You know, that's that's–I'm guessing you [Radhia, the interviewer] are a Muslim. R: Yeah, I understand you're saying– M: You understand what I mean. M: So that's helpful for me in terms of my well-being in my future with everything. And that's kept me from exploding or not thinking about something else is possible. M: So I went to the university. I wanted to do English after car[?]I want you to do.. M: I wanted to go to the History Department to learn history and stuff because I'm very I love history. In our system, French system is not the best one, so I hate it, but that's the way it is. The French system where you, you don't get to choose what you want to do in you're in, when you go to university, they choose for you. R: Okay [in agreement]. M: You got to have the choice to have three options when you are in high school. And that's it. And then they choose, you're going to go here because based on your grades, this is why you should go. And I– R: Really interesting… M: It is–It's this. I just can't accept that. It's just for me, it's just terrible. You don't get to choose where you wanna go. So they they they because my grades in English was way higher than everything else. So they sent me to the English Department– R: Mhmmm M: Fine, you know. But I didn't I wasn't happy when I accepted it because there is no choice for me. So I was learning I was doing English, but didn't succeed, didn't finish the two-year because I did two years. Strikes and a lots of craziness. M: So I stopped. M: I just spent two years and I stopped. M: So I went back to my hometown and then started looking for a job since I could speak a little English. I said “Oh, why not American NGOs?” M: So I found a job working, teaching human rights with an amazing American. Endure. M: And that's where these American spirit started to build up in my head. And then my family was also host family for Peace Corps volunteers. That's another aspect of my life that changed everything. I wanted it to Mike to come to the US. M: I started to send applications to apply for college in the US. So some accepted me, but I didn't understand really how it works. I just applied and apply. They accepted me but I didn't know what to do. M: That time there was no internet, so yeah. I didn't know what to do seriously, so I didn't fill up, you know. M: But I just wanted to come here to study. M: And finally I got another job with Peace Corps and then another job with another study abroad program. That's when I have to have American students coming from all over the university–American universities studying abroad in Senegal: SIT School for International Training that is based in Vermont. That's how I started working with Americans. And for many years, that's what I was doing. M: And then I would just like, okay, now I am in it. I was still interested in coming here to study. So that's how I try to apply for many in many schools. But SIT also has a grad school. So and then they told me If you spend seven years with SIT working with the World Learning Program you are eligible to have a scholarship to come to the US. M: That's when I'm like, Yes, my time is coming [laughs]. R: [laughs] M:-- Like yeah, So I went I went started I started paying for a private school, like night night school, like a late night school to do finish my bachelors degree, so I did it. And then after seven years, I applied to come to the US. And that's how I–I ended up getting a scholarship to come here. M: But it was not full scholarship, it was half of the money. So someone who doesn't really understand the system here. So I came here but didn't really understand what I'm doing. So I had even though I had an advisor, everything that was helping me. M: I was here in Vermont. I got–I was an RA helping people, but still there was something missing that I didn't understand in terms of how to pay the rest of the money [tuition]. So I ended up getting a private loan. But to be able to get a private loan, I needed a cosigner. M: One thing I didn't know, you know, but I was looking for someone to help me… M: Like in Africa when I need a cosigner is pretty easy. You know, that's one thing that in Africa we help one another, no problem. M: But here it's different. Because if you co-sign someone, it means you have to be responsible of everything. If the person doesn't pay, you going to pay. M: So I didn't understand how heavy that was. You know, every time I ask someone, they said “No, I can do it. I cannot do it.” So I didn't understand why people couldn't help another person. M: You know what? It was very, very complicated until someone I worked with bringing students to Senegal who got just understand this African spirit helped me really like cosign me. Even though she accepted to cosign me. She had the flew from–fly from Seattle to New York to meet me, just talk to me about cosign. So complicated. So but I was happy that I could find someone. And until today I'm paying. M: So after my, my two years and half in the US studying, I went back home because before I left, I got a job with another study abroad programs, CIEE. I don't know if you're familiar with CIEE, Council on International Education Exchange. They are based in Portland, Maine. M: So I got a job offer, so I went back home. I started working as a program assistant in and teaching also French and Wolof and other stuff. Um, until then. But I was married before with an American–a half Senegalese half American woman. M: But I didn't use that to come. I use the I came to study, but after that I have to leave. I left but she was supposed to come with me, but she didn't come in and blah, blah, blah and and divorce blah, blah. M: So then I was in Senegal working, but it was hard for me to go back. And then have same because I wasn't working with Senegalese people. Even though I was in an American program, but it was hard for me to– M: One thing in Africa it is like…Here. It's just like go, go, go, go like, you know, you do. But there is just like people take the time. Yeah. You know, like they laid back. They don't go like if you'd give them an appointment at one they come one, whatever or sometimes– R: In African time… M: Yeah. It was very hard for me to dislike. And I have a friend that we were in middle school together, we're dreaming together. He's in, he's a teacher at Pomona College in California. So he was like asking me every now and then how I was doing and like, I'm trying to just get back home, but it's not easy to be back because people don't really want to do things and I just wanted to go, but it's not easy. He's like, Oh, you should come back. I'm like, No, I'm not, I'm done. I don't want to have any American woman anymore. Like I'm like, He's like No, no, no, I know someone, blah, blah. M: So that's how I was hooked up with another American woman who is a psychologist. That's how I ended up coming back here to live in 2019, even though every year I was coming back here during the summer to teach French at the Concordia Language Villages in Minnesota. M: But when I got this, the fiancee, I came here in 2019 to stay. M: So and since then I'm here teaching French in a private school in Portland, Oregon. M: But I'm about to move to Baltimore because I got another another job there, a full-time job in another private school teaching French. M: So this, this, this is my story, kind of, of how I ended up coming here. M: It was kinda, you know, very complicated, but that was one dream. For me, it was come and study. It didn't happen the way I wanted it. But it happened anyway. So I'm happy about that. But that's life. That's me. M: Yeah. If you have any other questions, anything like me to clarify anything else, I'm very open to answer any– R: I mean, I guess like because you do a lot of moving around. How do you feel about the community that you have in the United States compared to the community that you have back home? Like what are some key differences? I guess? M: You know, like it's over the time, working with Peace Corps, working with SIT study abroad, working with CIEE study abroad, working with Lakeside School in Seattle, bringing students to Senegal, working with the Concordia Language Villages, working and then the studying in Vermont. Also teaching online language like wall of French and polar, and also helping some time doing some work, cultural stuff. It helped me create my own community. M: So I am so I'm very fortunate to be able to know in each state you name. I am. I know someone or I have a friend there. M: So when I was coming to I came I came to accurately I came to Portland in 2017 to visit. So and my my wife now, the fiancee at that time was like, “Wow, you know, a lot of people in Portland.” So I had a community already important that I, that I had, you know, those who spent time in Senegal, those who understand me. M: So when I came here was easy because those people are inviting me to show me around, to show me the city of Portland, to just welcome me. Which is very important because Portland is a very white state and it's a very liberal state, but also very like you can meet all crazy places people, and it happens every now and then. M: But I was so lucky to have people that can welcome me, sometimes invite me to their homes. I have someone that I know from the Peace Corps group. His wife is Senegalese. They live in Portland. And before I arrived, I was communicating with him like I'm coming. And then when I arrived, he invited me at home, they cook Senegalese meal. And it was nice to have that. For me, it was very helpful to have that to create my own comfort to avoid being being–how do you say the word English being the word? M: Being–When you miss your house, when you miss your home…? R: Like homesick. M: Homesick. Thank you for that–being homesick and stuff. But also there is a Senegalese community here. And there is also a mosque here. So it's like a walking distance from me. And it was very important to have a mask around. So every Friday before the Covid I was going there. M: There's one Senegalese man who is part of the community, so he's an iman. And that was very important for me because I would go and see Muslims that are like me. So we can understand, we can speak the same language. M: Also having a Senegalese community where I can go to and then spend time. But it's very difficult because here everybody has something to do. Here, everybody works…or everybody. M: You know, it's not easy to just extend a girl. I would go I need to stay home. I was living in the car where I was by myself. But if I needed to see someone or spend time with people, I guess go out somewhere with the, the, the coffee seller from Guinea or from another city. You go then sit there discussing, chat and he can spend the whole time making tea, chatting, you know. But here you can have that. M: Or you can just like even my neighbors, I can't go to my neighbor like” Hello, can I come from tea? You know, it's not possible. So even though there's a, there's a guy here at Mexican guy is very nice. You know, every time I go out I see him like, yeah, yeah. You brother and blah, blah. But you can just go to his house. R: Yeah. M: In Senegal. You can do that. You can go. You don't have to call you, just go. And then they welcome you. M: You know, like it's impossible to do that here. Like yesterday. On Tuesday, I had a plumber who came here to repair the leaking thing and then it was about time to eat for me. So in my culture was like in my culture, you cannot eat when someone is in your house without you inviting the person. You got to invite the person. That's how we do. M: But I had to retract and it's like, Okay, it should I invite him? I think India is you don't do that. So sometimes I just can't do it because I'm like, okay, it can be offensive for some people. So I didn't do it. M: I had to go and hide even though he doesn't care: he’s American. But for me, my culture, it was hard to not invite him but also eat next to him while he's working. So that's something that I couldn't do. So I have to go. And in the other room, is it there? So that's one thing that is different from my hometown, my home country, which is very complicated here. M: Sometimes I can feel alone when my wife is at home–at work and I'm here by myself, you know, there's nothing to do. The only thing you can do is walk outside. Which is very difficult because the Senegalese people I know here or Africans are like far away from here. So they're in-office Portland, which is like 25-minute drive, something like that. So it’s– it's difficult. And sometimes when I want to go out and just spend time outside. I go and I take the bus because I don't have a car, so I go ahead and take the bus. M: But in Senegal, I, when I go and take the bus, I chat with people. But here you can, there are people who like… M: I remember in New York when I was in New York Greenlight internship, I was on the train and then it is like this big dude came for me. It was like, wow, these guys, you know, I'm saying like it's a black man like huge, tattoos everywhere. So I was impressed with these tattoos because I don't really, we don't really see tattoos in Senegal. For me, it was really like a man with tattoos. M: So I was looking at him, the tattoos and try to see what it means. And he sensed that I was looking at him. And he said “What the hell you looking at?” And then I was like ooooh I am in trouble [laughs]. R: [laughs] M: But that's how it is here. You don't just stare at people, you know, even though I was just trying to understand like the tattoos, like why he's doing this. What is what. But for him was like No, you don't stare at people like that. So it was hard but that's how it is. Here. M: I'm trying to do my best to stay, you know, focused and do a lot of research in by my own and tried to create curriculum when I don't have class, or tried to read something, or watch comedies, or try to chat with people from the country from Senegal, even though the time different is be seven-hour different. It's not easy. M: So but I gotta do something like that. I entertain myself, not just be by myself all the time. Yeah, So that's how I do that. So what I do and how I create my own community. But That's a different style guide here, but that's the way it is here. R: I was going to say, like, that whole individualistic mindset is something that I noticed is unique to North America, America, and Canada. Because I grew up in Canada and whenever I was around other people from the diaspora, like there's a lot of Southeast Asians, a lot of Indians, like, Pakistani people who I grew up with. And like the whole concept of like inviting someone into your house. Like you sit down and you have your yeah. You know. R: And then when I came to Kansas for school, like if I were to say with my friends and I were to start eating something, I'd offer it to them instinctively. And they'll just be like,” Oh, you don't have to do that.” And it's like, well, that's just how I was raised. Like, that's just something that's normal to me and I don’t think twice like and then if I bite into my house like I'll be sure to give them water, give them tea, give them something. They're always so shocked at how hospitable I am, but I'm like, it's not just me. Like there's so many people who moved like that's all it is. M: Yes. Yes. Yes, no. It is true. M: And then it's a I'm glad that your parents gave you that because I've met here lots of people from Senegal, Gambia, from other countries, but they've lost. And it's very sad, but it's the way it is, you know, and having those values, I think it's very important. It helps you stay who you are and then just like very simple in your life. And the more simple, the better, it is to move forward. R: Yeah. I think it also has to do with like, I think how my parents raised me with like the ideals of like Islam and religion in like staying rooted in my identity and like close to that. So I kinda just take that and implement everywhere I go. Like whether it's my work-life, school life, my social life, like just those things. Or it's fundamentally who you are as a person– M: Exactly. R: A few weird if I had to turn that off and turn that on depending on what group of people I was in. M: I feel you, I totally feel you. It's very important like being Muslim, I think for me, it is really, really good in my well-being. You know, if I don't have it in this very complicated, so I need to. Islam helped me stay patient, calm, thoughtful, respectful, humble. I can go on and on and all of this that, you know. So it's just great. I'm just thankful for for this religion. Yeah. R: Yeah. It helps you stay rooted in your identity. And just like as you said before, when things get tough, like that reminder 0, like things are going to fall into place under Matthew. Yeah, just that simple. That's simple ideology will save you from so much. Yep, It's like, yeah, Like it's it's hard to get by. M: Yeah. I know the difference with my colleagues and I can see the difference between them and I in many things the way that I, I am patients, sometimes they just look at me like, wow, like “How can you do it?” which I will talk and you do it like a little thing. They can explore. M: For example, my students, sometimes they're very demanding, you know, American students very demanding. But the way that I do with them, I think my Islam helped me like really in terms of how I do with them and then they don't get it. They just like my colors like Oh no, I cannot stand is I can understand. I'm like, yeah. It's okay. You know, yeah. R: Yeah. Patientce, the applications of virtue. Have you had any like negative implications of being like a practicing Muslim or like being a minority in whatever space is that you've been in? M: I mean, in terms of Islam, no, I've never I've never encountered anything bad. Because I guess maybe because, you know, as a black person, nobody expect me to be a Muslim. So maybe it's, that's what it is. M: When I go to the mosque here, it's mixed with people from Somalia, Eritrea, Senegal, like Pakistan, Indonesia, like many, many people from all over the wall. So it's a mix of race in whatever culture so people maybe don't see you as different or something. I think maybe that's why I've never really liked, faced any problem was as a Muslim. Because maybe like people don't see it. Maybe. M: But my name, my name is or even my name is Arabic. But the way it is written, maybe it's, it doesn't help people see that I am Muslim, I guess… M: But in terms of black person, yes, I I faced some crazy look everywhere… R: Mhmmm M: You know, Portland is terrible. You know, even though I like Portland, but sometimes I can see people the way they look at you. Then you're not welcome. M: So I worked at Amazon When I came here when I got my work permit, I was applying for teaching job. While I was waiting. I'm like, okay, school going to start in September. So between February and September. I don't want to sit oh, I need to have something. So I applied for any kind of job. So I applied for Amazon. So it was like quick in one week, I was hired to be like us to sort the items and stuff. M: And when I was there at the warehouse, like this is so funny. Like the white people, even sometimes the Chinese or some other people, they just see me as someone who doesn't know anything. R: Interesting. Okay. M: Like seriously, one day at the [conveyor] belt, I was scanning all the items to create palattes for those items going in the same place. So this woman came to me and said, this is like showing me a tape. Like let's say “This is tape.” Like Okay. R: Oh, wow. M: Like “Do you know tape?” I guess. I know. And she's like, Come I'll show you take instead of saying I am, I'm show you a tape or the tapes. I show you tape. I'm like, I worked with her and I said, you're not speaking proper English. You know, you know, like I studied English. I went to school and she's like You went to school, you know. So yeah, I have a master's degree, you know. I speak six languages. Do you know that? Yes. I can teach you English. I can teach you English, Spanish, French, and many others. You know what I know… R: I know these biases…Microaggressions. Unlike the microaggressions, they yeah. They're they're lying to you. M: Yeah, like it happened to move in Amazon. I spent almost four months in Amazon. Every day. There is someone with a dirty look or seeing me as if I don't know anything. Or even when there's a black African American, I think he knew like I was from Africa. He will dislike seeing me as like looking at me. He never say hello to me until we met in the bathroom. He had a bad experience with another woman from a Latina woman that I I also had a bad experience with that with her. And she would just he was just talking about it. I'm like, Oh, it's that lady. Like we talk so much about that. He's like “Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and where are you from?” I'm like “I'm from Senegal, West Africa.” Oh wow, West Africa. Wow, I forgot Africa. Wow. It must be hard. I don't know Africa. I'm like no, it's actually better than here. You guys got money, everything, but you don't have a life there. We have a life. Like How come you speak English pretty well. I didn't know. I speak six languages. Speak English. I said I know. But that was kinda like a very odd and create crazy. M: But I became very calming and patient and then we ended up becoming friends as I can teach you so much, you know, like I can tell you, you should go to Africa before you say anything, you should know, what is Africa before you have your, you know, there maybe you watch too much TV and stuff. M: And I can go on and like so many…Even my own boss never talked to me, even though every day he would come and supervise me, see what I was doing. And one day I made a mistake. He was like, “No, I actually wasn't even a mistake, mistake. It was something I didn't normally, but it was not well done from the previous person. And I tried to explain to him what it is. But the way that I was analyzing it, he was just looking at me like, You know. And when I was speaking and explaining and I mistakenly say a few words in French. [my boss was] just like you speak another language, has it? No, I speak six languages. He was like you and the “You” was kinda like you. I'm like… M: If you go to Africa, you will maybe see rarely someone who speaks only one language, one language in Africa, people speak at least, at least two. And sometimes one person can speak five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, and so on. M: And he was like, wow, and since that day, the man talks, start talking to me every morning. Say, Hey, hello. I'm like, yeah, it happens to me many times so I will just tired of Amazon, so I wanted to so I left. I left because I had had one week because I will going to start Concordia Language Villages to teach French. So I left like a week before because I was just I couldn't take it anymore. M: No, my patience has had limits… R: I've heard Amazon is hard, especially for people like you. It's crazy. M: The way that they treat like they like you have to the speed they want you late. It's like inhumane. I had to say, man, I cannot do that. You know, no. I got to. I am a human being. I'll do it this way. He was like, No man, you need to do 800 item per hour. I was doing 300 and I said, No, I can't go through hundreds more. R: Yeah. Like because when it comes to the workforce, like, they're going to replace. So it's like you have to do what's best for your own self. Exactly. In as much as you want to help the company you are an individual before employees. M: Yeah. Yeah. It was hard but, you know, for me it was important to have to just work, you know, how the money was not good. It was like 900 [dollars] per month, but it was fine because I didn't want to stay home. M: And then I had to online classes every day. I came back home from Amazon, but I didn't want to stay home like the whole morning doing nothing. R: I understand. Yeah. Wow. R: I feel like yeah, that the different intersectionality, it's like you're an African man who came here and then people are just looking at you and saying, well, he probably doesn't know how to do this. But at the end of the day, you knew more than what they did. M: Yeah. And also I traveled a lot in many countries. I've been to Europe, I've been to many African countries. I've traveled a lot. M: So just coming in, seeing these people looking at you, these people, many of them never left America. I'm looking at me like my another [unknown]. I'm like, you don't know what he's talking about. But for me it's fine, you know, since they don't know me, It's fine. It's okay. M: It happened it happened a lot. And also the thing is like I'm very quiet in general. I don't really talk. If I don't have too. Here, people they think like if you don't talk that you don't know, you know, one thing I noticed like even like at work, my colleagues, I don't really talk that much if I don't have anything to say, I just keep quiet but they think it will because you don't say anything then you are limited. R: So it's like that. I think that's another thing with the mentality out here is everything is really, everything is very personal. Like if you're not talking to you, that means like if you don't like me or you want nothing to do with me, or we’re just so different. R: But sometimes people just have different types of personalities with all different where it's like that's not the norm. Do you know what your nor might be enough may not be my normal. Yeah. I guess.. M: Yeah, as a Fulani, you know, like if you go to Fulani people were very shy, very quiet people. So that's how it is, but it doesn't mean like we're we're not we don't we don't talk or we don't want to talk to people. It's just quiet. R: That's why cultural competency and being aware of other people is you have to be able to deal with wide groups of people. Otherwise you're just going to always have some sort of weird perspective. what you think is right? It's not actually right. Yeah. M: So that's why I tried to like smile that much. At least I have that smile so I can give to people. When I was doing my my interview for my job in Baltimore. The the the the athletic director when we were having the Zoom calls. So she looked at me and he's like, I have 20 min with you. Last few questions, but your smile tells me a lot. So I don't need to ask me any question now. I know I want you. R: Oh, wow. M: Really? Just like Yeah, I've been here for she said, I've been I've been working for 35 years. If I see someone who is good, I can tell tells me that you are a good person. You have heart, and you can do the work like okay. But I will accept the question as well [laguhs]. R: [laughs]. M: Well, yeah, we spent like 5 min talking something else and I was like, okay, that's good, you know, and I don't need anymore. Like okay. R: Yeah. That's that's that's very interesting. So you're never heard them for you and then I was like, okay, so I'm still interested in answering your questions. Let me know if you're good, you're good. No. That's nice. R: I'm kinda curious with like because you said you teach French. What are they like? What's the demographic of students that you're teaching French? M: Right now I have two classes in high school. So one class is like the French 2 level, there are 14 people and one black person. I'm sorry, I'm late and it's just one black person. One black person in my two classes, only one black person. And as a two Asian American, the rest white–all white?. M: Well, so and the other, the other group, three Asian-Americans and the rest whites there 12 people. So there's no black in my only one black in my entire two classes. That's Portland. M: So the school is like, It's a very wealthy school. So a lot of people, because it's a private school, So it makes sense. Most of the black people who are there, they got scholarships because it's difficult for the parents. So that athlete student is American, Congolese American. The parents are from Congo. And yeah, so it's, uh, it's very, very complicated. M: So I'm glad that our only I at least have one person who can– R: Yeah. M: I can relate to even though she's not she has her some mental issues sometimes, but still. It's it's still good to have at least one person. Yeah. R: No, that's yeah, that's it's hard when the people who you're working with, people who you're with around can't relate to you. M: Yeah. R: Won’t identify with them. M: Yeah. Yeah. But that's how it is. This is really, really very white. And then the many, many other black people are in the Northeast Portland. So it's acrossed unit. Go downtown after you cross the river, going into a Seattle, that's where you find them. And unfortunately like everywhere else, It's very difficult. M: So I go there and in a lot of Africans and Portland is that yeah, we have a lot of Gambians, alot of Congolese, lot of they're– R: Is there also Somali population? M: Yeah, So you're not that much but somebody populations. They are mostly in other cities like acidic will Bend and Eugene, I think. Yeah, not not many, many important or I don't know them. I don't know where they are. I don't really see them that much. M: Even though in front, like right in front of me, there's a Somali person I think married to someone from Egypt, I think. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's Portland is very unique. R: Yeah. I went when I was younger. I was a little kid. So I remember we went to the beach. But I used to go back to Seattle quite a bit because I lived in Vancouver and Seattle was a two-hour drive. Yeah. My family up there. So yeah. M: Yes. Seattle has a lot of things. Somebody I think I think Vancouver has also Vancouver in Washington has also a lot of smelly population. I think, I think someone told me one day because I know something greatest person who live in Vancouver to have lots of Gambians there but also Somali. R: Yeah. Is there anything else that you wanted to share? Because I don't have any more questions. You've answered all of them with their stories. [laughs]. M: Yeah, That's why I like to start with my story. So when I say when I started, I think it will answer lots of questions that you might have. So because it's very, quite, an interesting story. M: Yeah, So I, I, you know, just one thing I love about is just sharing my country, my Africa. And I'm part of many with many institutions that take people to, to Senegal, to Africa to learn about their heritage or learn about Senegal. M: So I am going to Senegal this July taking African-American students to Senegal to learn about their heritage. It's part of the program called “My Black Birthright Bood, right? So stuff. It's taking high-school students that are African descent have something like 10% of African blood. And to take them back to Africa for them to see. M: Because many don't really understand or don't know or think like Africa starts with African, African history starts with slavery. Which is false. But that's what those who are writing history, that's what they were portray[ing]. M: It's not true. M: So it's important for them to know that there are, there were Africa before empires. Things happen before civilization. We are doing that and we are trying to help them see the picture. M: So we started last year. Before Covid. We had six students, and this time we have 18 students that we are taking and then we couldn't travel for in 2020 because of Covid, but this 2020 people are traveling. So that's one thing that I wanted to share that helps understand Africa, helps see the real Africa, not just Africa that white people– R: Narratively constructed– M: Yes. And yeah, and I'm glad that it's working and I'm glad that we're doing something. We showing them like, you know, things that have never learned or they don't have the The opportunity to see, because in the US, Africa is not a topic. Even though it's huge topic. Yeah. M: So when I tell them like we spent, I spent years, years studying about African history. And you're telling me like, you don't know anything about I am like “Is there's something wrong.?” We know there is no history. The history of the US started somewhere. You know, you know, there, there is the history of those who lived here before when the European kingdoms, that, that's the way America started. You know, even though there's something else before. But Africa is there's–yeah. There's.. R: It goes way, way back, way before my goodness, the Beirut way before everything else– M: Egypt, you know, it's something we've taught. People would be trying to teach them. Digital gi like where everything started the civilization, even the architectural aspects of everything, math and everything started from there. But nobody did. They don't know. They're like, Wow. Yeah. R: Yeah. M: Yeah, yeah. M: But I'm I'm I'm happy to be here even though it's hard, but I'm trying to build something. I'm trying to every time I got the chance to educate someone, explained, show that if you need to understand, you need to do some research. You cannot just sit where you're sitting in and thinking something that is not true. Have to do the research. And you got, you have to travel. M: So I'm trying to convince people to travel, like in 2022. I will be with another presentation taking, taking 35 French teachers from the US to Senegal so they can see that there's something else. We did it last year in 2019, we took 13 students, 13 French teachers, all women from the US, mostly from–six of them are from Sacramento, to Senegal. M: So we did like a mostly sightseeing, an inviting someone who history teacher talk about, you know, everything for them to see those things. I think it's helpful to understand and learn about Africa. And they can also spread the word. R: Yeah, especially if they're French teachers, they can teach a different perspective of French to their students, you know? M: Yes. So like the last semester, I, I used the European borders like the Schengen Space to teach my students about borders in the world. So I teach them, taught them about the European borders, and then try to give them a project to do to learn about African borders. M: I was able to show them. I'm like the different conflicts in borders. In Nigeria and Cameroon. There's a conflict there. Rwanda, Burundi or Rwanda, Congo, or Gambia, Senegal, or Mali, Burkina Faso, or Somali and Ethiopia or something like that. So there's a problem. There's forums everywhere. M: So I asked them to go to research and explain. And then I ask them to go and learn about the Berlin Conference, which is in 1884. Uh-huh. I say go there, search to Berlin Conference and tell me. So they came they never knew about that. And then they came alone so much like wow, this is happening. They shared Africa like yeah. M: And then ask them to go study the African empires. And they were like, wow, there were [sic] something before. I'm like Yeah. And then they saw it was very well organized. Mali Empire, Ghana empire, Somali Empire, and then just to name those. M: And then they do like they were able to link the problems of today in Africa to the Berlin Conference and to the empires and then to… M” The borders in Africa. It's not about territory, it's about cultures and ethnic groups. And people. You cannot cut between Nigeria and Cameroon and said This is Cameron and it's in Nigeria. No. You cannot do that– R: Yeah. M: You have to consider the people who live there, you know. But then they were like, Wow, this is what it is I'm to get. M: So today the problems are linked to those things from long time ago and it's still going on today. R: Yeah. I honestly like a lot of what I've learned about African history is things that I've learned in college. Because in high school and elementary school, they don't teach you much about it. They just say, Okay, the slaves came on these ships and they came here. That's what people, African-Americans. R: And I was like, that's not right. R: So then when I got to college, I actively took African history classes, like trying to learn language, trying to pieces up where I can get it. Without. One thing that I've noticed is that a lot of these papers, a lot of these research articles are like textbooks. They're all written by white scholars. R: Like the idea of people telling someone else's story that doesn't sit well with me. But then again, like colonialism doesn't just go away because you're writing about it in a different respect, like you need to have. R: You need to empower those people from those countries to write their own history. For it to be the truth. M: You know, like we have it. We have writers in Africa, the world about things, but you don't see them enough in the US. You don't study them, you know. R: So so many systemic things that just needs to be unpacked. M: Yeah, but little by little, I love what you're doing. So it's great. I love the research you're doing. It's just great. So keep it up, keep going and ask or as many as possible. R: Well, it's nice connecting with you and chatting with you today. M: My pleasure. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Moutarro Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Senegal to Portland, Oregon Description An account of the resource Moutarro is from Senegal but his parents were from Guinea. When he was younger, his dream was to eventually go to France, like several other African students in Francophone countries After his short stint at the French university, he used his English skills to work with an American NGO. Finally, after working for an international student exchange program for 7 years, Moutarou studied at a university and then went back to Senegal to work for a different company. He speaks about the importance of his faith and how it keeps him rooted and his brief experience at Amazon where he encountered racism on a daily basis. Towards the end of the interview, Moutarro discusses the impacts of colonialism’s modern day consequences. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Portland, Oregon Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_goirl83o" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_goirl83o/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Moutarro"></iframe> Community Discrimination Education Identity Language Oregon Senegal Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Radhia Abdirahman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Munira Language of Interview English Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Munira Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Addis Ababa, Ethiopia to Kansas City, Kansas. Description An account of the resource Munira was born and raised in Kansas City. Her parents are Ethiopian, but her grandparents are from Eritrea. She used to identify as Ethiopian, but now identifies as a Black woman with Ethiopian heritage. She speaks about her blackness as well as how the racism she faces is exhausting. She reflects on a trip to Ethiopia which was when she realized her relative privilege as well as her battle with Leukemia which exposed healthcare disparities because doctors do not easily notice symptoms such as pale skin and red dots in a darker-skinned individual like Munira. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Kansas City, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_dk95c5l0" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_dk95c5l0/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Munira"></iframe> Community Discrimination Education Ethiopia Identity Kansas City Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Aron Muci Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Nydia Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Nydia (N) Aron (A) N: So my name is Maria Vasquez. I was born and raised here in Wichita, Kansas. I am 23 years old and what I do here is, I'm a teacher–I'm a first grade teacher. N: I've lived here my whole life. N: My family, both my parents are from Trancoso Zacatecas, Mexico and they've been here for, I would say a little over 25 years. I am one of three siblings. N: So with that being said, a little background information about my family to get started. My parents moved here on and off back-and-forth. When they were about dad was probably about 25. Mom was 18. They were married. They got married, came over here. N: We already had family here in Wichita, so it was just common sense to move somewhere where we have family and where things were kind of familiar. N: After that, they started their family. We were all born and raised here. N: There were a couple of times when I was young, probably one or two where they went back a couple of times. And then after they had my youngest sister in 2001, they stayed here permanently after that. N: There was no more going back-and-forth. N: Things got a little bit harder for them to be traveling across the border and coming back. So they decided that the safest thing to do was to just stay after my youngest was born, my youngest siblings. N: So with that being said, the only thing that we had experienced per se was just the traditions and the culture that they brought back. They brought here from Mexico. That could be, you know, just how we celebrate certain holidays. N: We are Catholic twos. So having that into our traditions as well as holidays, I had a lot to do with what we saw about our culture. N: We didn't really know anything else because the only thing we got close to home to Mexico was probably just stories and my older sister was my oldest sister was the one that would probably I think she traveled about three times back-and-forth on her own because she could and she brought back a lot more to me and my youngest sister. N: But that being said, I think when I was around ten, so 13 years ago, actually, not ten. When I was ten years old, my older sister was about 14, 15 [years old]. We decided to go to Mexico. N: Just her and I. N: I had been to Mexico, but that was at one or two, so it wasn't enough for me to remember anything. So we decided to go on this trip for the whole entire summer and the only perspective that they kept giving me was, you know, there's–there's no showers over there like there is, but it's very different in me living here all my life and having access to all these things. N: We were just I was just kinda like questioning. Well, what do you mean? It's kinda different? N: You know, my mom was just preparing me like, Hey, when you go down there, it's very different to the way that we live here. So don't be shocked, don't act a certain way. N: Just appreciate the small things and appreciate try to soak everything in and appreciate that because that's where we all came from. That's where your dad and I came from and that's that's all we know. N: Aside from living here. N: And I was like, why was ten, you know, it wasn't just like it wasn't something that really stuck to me. Her words didn't really stick with me. N: It was just a vacation to me. N: And she kept warning me, you know, there's a lot of things that you may see down there that you'll probably find a little shocking. But don't let it affect you in any way. Don't, don't react in a bad way. It's all good things. N: So me being ten, I went it was the first time I had traveled that far in a couple of years enough to remember. N: And I remember as soon as we got there, we went by bus. We didn't go by airplane or anything like that. We we went on a bus and I think it hit me when I started seeing like the houses and how they were shaped differently. They were made of different material. N: They looked very small. N: I think that's when I was like, we went from city and we went from Texas to complete nothing like desert. We were in Juarez and we hadn't gotten there just yet, but it was just dead. Everything was dead. N: There was nothing there and that's when it hit me where I like. This is probably what I was being warned about. N: This doesn't look like home at all. N: And then the people that you would see on the outside, they were just they were just I guess you would say they were dressed differently. N: And eventually we got to where we're from. And I remember like seeing my family there. And mind you they had met me but I obviously didn't remember. So it was all my family all my mom's side of the families over there. N: And she's only one that came from her family, from her side of the family. So they were very welcoming. They were very happy. They were hugging and they were kissing cousin on each other. N: And just it was just very odd to me because one I never remembered them too. They all look like my mom. They were just like there's like eight of them that look the same. N: Everything was different as soon as I got off the bus. N: Like the smell was different, the environment, the people. N: And we stayed there for two months. N: So in that two month period, I understood what my mom was saying. Like things are very different in what she meant by that was her family over there isn't wealthy by any means. I mean, to shower, we have to heat up a pot full of water and then just go back and forth until the whole big tub is filled. Um, that's how you shower. N: And it's unlike this room. It's not like a bathroom. The toilets aren't flushable over there. So you have to go to the restroom and like this bin and take care of that and it's in the same room. N: So it was very different. N: I would've never thought I would have to do that in my life. And I figured like, Oh, in my brain before I went, it was like, yeah, things are gonna be different obviously, you know. But not to that extent. N: So as soon as I was seeing hello. This part of the house doesn't have a roof. This part of the house doesn't have doors, that doesn't have there's no privacy. N: That's when it was like I think I started to realize why my parents raised us in that way. In a way of appreciating what you have, not thinking that, you know by any means that we have the best of the best. Learning how to save [money]. Learning how to be kind. All of those things that were taught. N: That's when I started to really think like I was ten. N: So it really hit me like, this is why they taught us kindness. This is why they taught us how to appreciate the hard work. This is why they taught us that education is so important. Because in the US, like you are, if you don't go to college, you can still be somebody. N: But education is like the top thing. N: It's full of opportunities. N: And I think that's when I realized that this is why they left. N: They didn't want us living in these environments which are totally doable, obviously because there's still that way. N: But now it's like now I understand why they sacrificed, leaving and sacrifice traveling. Like so far. N: And, you know, back then, I knew, I knew that my parents had done that and I knew the sacrifices, and I knew what that meant and all of that, but I didn't truly understand it until I was able to see all of that. N: So, you know, it's it's the small things. On Sundays we would go out to the street and it's called is the tianguis. That's what it's called. The tinaguis is where all the community gathers together and there's just small businesses. People sell handmade bracelets, handmade curses, shoes, movies, things like that. Really. N: It's almost like a little it's like a thrift store, but all of these handmade items, and you gather every Sunday and you can shop and you can just interact with the community. Everybody sets up their tents, everybody sets up everything. And you just navigate your way through these tiny little stores, through the streets. N: And it was so welcoming. N: And that's not something that you see here. N: You can go to you can go to the mall and there's a bunch of stores, but it's not the community gathering together and actually socializing. And that was what stood out to me. That was one of the things that stood out to me the most. N: And I think it's because you don't, you don't see that over here in the United States, like you see, there's gatherings and stuff like that, but it's not It's not as meaningful. And it's that Trancoso is a very, very small town. Very small. N: Everybody knows everybody. N: I mean, as soon as I stepped out of the bus, they were like, Are you Estela’s daughter? Oh my gosh. She looked like Estela when she left here. And so that's how you know, that everybody just knows everybody. N: And as I was walking to the store, you know, getting to go get milk or something with my grandma. They'd be like “Is that your daughter? Is that your daughter's daughter? The one that's up north?” My grandma would say, “Well, yeah, this is Nydia yeah, this is this Estela’s daughter, the one that's up north. N: And that's what they say is what they call it over here. And I would just just the way that they they talked about over here. N: I feel like people in Mexico. My family has an idea that is so big and great over here. Yes, it's like the land of opportunity, but I feel like they have a misinterpretation of how things are over here. N: And I feel like we have a misinterpretations and we were so busy living our life here and keep going forward that we tend to forget about the small things. So it's kinda like flipped. N: And what I mean by that is that when I got talking to them about how things are over here, they were like, wow, you have money, you know, your in the US like that's awesome. You have everything that you could ever want. N: And I was like, well, no, it's very different. It's hard work. Yes. It looks better if that's what you're trying to get at. You know, there's big buildings and there's, you know, depending on where you live. N: But I was like, It does look very different. The houses look very different. The way of life is very different. N: And they just thought that one of my cousins said, just to put it in the simplest way, the way that they see it over here is that it is a perfect life, like perfection. N: When it comes to jobs, when it comes to families, when it comes to money when it comes to anything that you could possibly think of. They think that the world over here is just perfect, that there's no stress, no struggle. N: And that's when it hit me. N: And I was like, well, we didn't come from a wealthy family, obviously. We do have a roof over our heads. We don't have to worry about anything financially, thankfully. But it comes with hard work. N: And I think that that moment when I went I was over there. It just made me realize why people move all the way over here. N: We said yeah, sorry, give me a second. N: Okay. N: Okay. So I was saying sorry about that. A: No worries. N: It changed my perspective on everything. It kinda made me appreciate a little bit more about the sacrifices that they did. They made for us to be here. The life over there. N: I enjoyed it because it was just kind of like a pause in my life of a moment of realization. Because I feel like over here it's go, go, go. N: It never stops. You wake up, you go to work, or you go to school. You go on about your day every single day, Monday through Friday. On the weekends. It's supposed to be a break day for people. It's family time. N: And I feel like that's just the way that it is already here. For most people is just you either work, you go to school, or you have to be doing something for your life to keep going, to keep moving over there. N: It was a pause because they don't work all the time because there's not that many jobs over there. They have to find ways to get money by doing the smallest things. Cleaning windows, like stop standing outside of a gas station and just cleaning the windows for people just to get a couple of cents. N: Anything that you can think of they make into a small business. And I mean, over there it's different. You don't have to go through the you don't have to go through anything to make it a business. N: You just do your thing, you create things, and you sell it just to just to live. N: I think that was a pause in my life of this is nice because I don't feel like my life is just go, go, go over here. You get to spend time with family. And it wasn't even just “Oh, she's ten.” It was a summertime. It was a vacation. She's she's having fun obviously. N: It was that Is this life? Every single day? N: They–the kids, some of them don't even go to school because they don't have the money, they don't have the money to buy what they need supplies, so they quit and they could be as young as five. They could never go to school at all. That's just the way life is over there. N: And there's people that work their butts off over there. And time passes. And they're still not doing the best that they can. N: They're doing the best that they can, but their dream of like trying to grow and save it so hard to do. You can't really save over there. N: That's and that's what I realized. N: And that's when, you know, light bulb went off and it was kind of like this is why they came here. Because that life as great as it was during that time, it's not the best. N: It's not it's manageable because they have to live. They have to find the greatness in it. N: But you grow up and you're not, you're almost like not a, not a person. You don't feel success. You don't feel like you've done anything over there. N: And I think that's what they were trying to make us feel. Try to be successful and try to feel that within ourselves. And that's, that's the whole reason that they moved here. N: You know, it's the land of opportunity, yes. But for a person that has moved here from Mexico with absolutely nothing because they came with no clothes, no nothing. You know, not just what they had on. N: And to start from literally nothing. N: I think that's that's what I like to say when I tell people like, where did you come from, you know, where, you know, people are always confused. [They ask] Like are you Mexican? Were you born here? Like where are you from? And it's like, yeah, I was born and raised here. N: But that–that's not just who I am. N: I'm not like I'm not just any other American over here. Your typical American that lives over here. It's there's more to me than that. N: And even if I wasn't born in Mexico, I think that that trip made me think of like something bigger, the bigger picture. And they came for our education. They came to have a better home. N: They came because they did not like the way that people ended up over there. And they didn't want us having that vision of what it's like to be up north. N: Like all the other kids that I was talking to were talking to me, you know, like, “Oh wow, How's it up north? Like what are their flies over there? Is it dirty over there?” N: Is it like, what do you guys do for fun, or what what kinds of things? What does your school look like? N: Do you guys have desks because we don't have all of that. And just talking to people my age over there at that time I was like, wow. The fact that That's their perspective on like a whole different place. N: It's almost like they're talking about a different planet. N: That's what it seemed like to me, but it wasn't it. I feel like my parents didn't want us asking those questions. I feel like they wanted us to know everything that we could possibly know about our culture and where they came from as well as how we are going to be growing up. And that's the thing. N: I feel like those conversations always happen throughout our childhood and even now at 23. I don't I feel like since I haven't been to Mexico since then. N: So I think that that was definitely life-changing in a sense where I'm a mom now. N: And, you know, it's funny because the things that my parents used to say to me, like appreciate the little things you know, you need to be raised with kindness. N: Like that's what I want for my son, is to have those opportunities to be a good person and appreciate those little things. And hopefully one day I'll be able to take them just so he can have that moment too. N: Because it's it's hard growing up with parents who came here and were never able to go back. It's hard. It's it's probably if I could have one wish, it's for them to be able to go back to that moment. And it's hard because a lot of people don't understand that unless they've experienced it themselves. N: So my son will never get to experience like, you know, being born over there or anything like that. But I think that's what's important is to carry those things in those experiences and talk about them in order for younger generations to understand. N: Just like they did to me. Like they talked about all the sacrifices that talked about their life and and all that they did for us. And it didn't mean anything until you see where they came from and you live there for two months? N: And the only thing that I would go through my head that summer was my mom's comment of “Don't react a certain way. Don't behave as if you came from something bigger. Because although you were born here in the United States, we didn't raise you to act like you have it all.” N: Because there were people when they came here that judge them that they didn't speak any English. So that's why it was very important for them to teach us Spanish and to teach us all about and to teach us about our culture and where we came from. N: And as much as they could talk and on and on and on about it. You don't get it unless you live that life even for just a moment. N: So my goal is to talk about my father's life and my mom's life and share that with my son and share what I experienced at just ten years old with him. N: And I think that's important because that is the true meaning of where you came from. You know, you didn't just come from, you can say that two came from a place all you want, but it's not it's not exactly who you are. N: And that's, I think that's probably the most important thing to me is it's families. So now I want to work hard and I want to experience all these things and I want to teach my son about how to be a hard worker, how to do his own thing, how to interact with others, and how to respect people who don't have all of that. N: So then coming back after our trip and coming back, I like I noticed I did things differently. N: Like I would turn off the water and not let it run for such a long time anymore. Or I would turn off the lights if nobody was using them or I would if we if we went to the store, I would just I would tell my mom like, oh, you know what? I don't want anything. That's time. I don't need new shoes. I have the ones I've had for such a long time. I'll just use those. N: I felt like I was I came back a whole different person in terms of like saving money and learning to appreciate what I do already have not being so needy. N: And I think I started to ask my parents a little bit more like how was work or where I could see it that they were tired and I would do something around the house for them. It's it's it's coming from there that I feel like if I hadn't gone on that trip, I would have never gone later on. N: I think I was meant to go. So I could see exactly why they came over here. N: And it looks the same as how they left it because nothing changes over there. Nothing really ever does. So it was life changing. It was a great experience. N: I feel like I'm a much kinder person. N: Obviously, it's been 13 years and you grow a lot during that time. But I feel as if if I hadn't gone, I'd probably just be not as appreciative of all of those things. I wouldn't find those things meaningful. N: I would just kind of throw them off to the side and say, Hey, you know what? This is, where I am. I came from, you know, I've never been, but that's just all I know. N: And I think it's important to actually go to those places to see and to, to bring something back. Not to just yourself but to other people. N: So now people ask me, like where are you from and all this stuff. N: And I could go on for days about all of that. N: But it's like I'm proud to be Mexican and I'm proud to speak Spanish, and I'm proud to talk about my culture and I'm proud to talk about my parents hardships because that's that's who I am. N: It's not just about me, it's about all the people and all the factors that came in together to raise me, to build me N: You know, I am like my dad. I am my mom. I am that I’m Trancoso and everything that has to do with that place, that that's who I am. N: And I don't know. I think I think that's what's the most important thing for me, is just knowing all that and soaking it in. So after coming back and to this day, I'm still very picky about like certain things, you know, like if you're not going to use the water, then turn it off or if you're not going to be in that room, turn the lights off. N: Like it takes a lot of work to get to where you are. I definitely have much more respect for my parents. They still haven't stopped working. My mom is 47 and my dad's 53. So they're still going. N: Things are very different for them here. They don't get to just retire and get money after they don't. They have to save and they've been saving since they came here just to prepare for anything that were to happen. N: So the fact that they're still working, it just shows that that's what they came here for. You know what I mean? N: They want to leave us something and just be prepared for anything that has to come so we can get into the details about that. You know, when whenever they if they decide to speak a lot about, about their life. N: But yes, That is, that is my story. A: Thank you so much for sharing that I mean, I can tell from sharing that story that this was a really formative and an important experience in your life. And when as you say, where you learned a lot about where you came from, and most importantly about how much you learned about yourself, right? A: And I'm very happy that you are able to have that experience. Because as you say, not everyone gets to have that kind of experience. So that's very fortunate for you. A: And one of the things that I'm kind of curious a little bit about. You mentioned that what you mentioned wanting to take your son, hopefully someone day back to Mexico and in a way so that he can kinda see that unexperienced that for himself. I'm kind of curious if there are any differences in terms of how you are raising your son now versus how your parents raised you? Just trying to because he's going to have a little bit of a, he's going to have a little bit more about detachment, right? Compared to you. A: And so as you as you kind of started off your story, you talked about how much your mother was trying to prepare you, going back to how that experience and what that what that would mean. So what is the kind of preparation that you think that you would give your son before heading back? Like, what how would you prepare him to be there to experience and what would you hope that he would get from that? N: I think. I mean, you could always see no, anybody can always just wait until somebody's order to understand. But I feel like my parents started telling us. My parents were very honest with me about their lives at a very young age. N: And I think it was two. Prepare me. Not just in case I visited, it's just to prepare me for the conversations that I would one day be having with people. Because people do ask people. N: I think I remember as young as like first grade people would ask me like, why was why, like why I was a little bit tan or why? Like if I was born here, if I was from a different place and I think that they did that to prepare us for those conversations. N: And I didn't think that was like, Well, I would just tell people what we got. Like I was born here. What are you talking about? But you're just so young. N: But I think that they were very honest and upfront and they didn't wait until we were older to understand, just so we wouldn't be able to be prepared for any of those questions at any age or comments. N: So what I would do is is just that is, you know, just be 100% honest with him and what kind of things he may run into. So young at school, what kind of things people ask at school. N: And I think that's the meaning of conversation in those experiences because I feel like we have to do we have to have more conversations, not just with me and my son about all of this, but I feel like in general, people need to be a little bit more informed and exposed to those experiences, even if it's just conversation to truly understand. N: So I think what he would get the most out of that is definitely I feel like he would experience the same things because even if I was to raise them to be kind and respectful and all that good stuff. N: I feel like it would be the same thing. Like hopefully he's like, great and just very respectful and it's hope, hopefully understanding everything that word is to say in conversation. Your grandpa, he came here with Grandma and all this stuff. N: But until somebody actually goes, you fully wrap your head around it. And for me it was that's why she would say those things or that's why she would warn me about about these things. N: I feel like all I could give him now is photographs or conversations and experiences and talk about those things as a family. And hopefully he's old enough to where my dad could even tell them about those things. N: And it come from direct person who actually came here. Instead of just having to hear from somebody who was born and raised here. It's very different. N: And I think that's why it's these types of conversations or interviews are important because you get a glimpse of somebody's authentic life and who they truly are. N: So hopefully it's not me having to do all of those conversations. Hopefully it's between him and my dad or him and my mom. Hopefully. We're in that that time with them too. If he ever has any questions, it's coming from somebody who experienced that themselves versus just me. So I think that's key to just keep having those conversations, those stories, keep telling them. A: My last question for you is, I mean, I think one of the things that you talked about him in his interviewer and the various conversations that you've had with your family with them just kind of asking you what was it like in the North and vice versa. Just stories that you were told, what life was like there. A: And so I'm kind of curious. Have you had a conversation with your parents about how important or how pivotal this trip was when you were ten? And if not, or if even if so, I'm just kinda wondering, what do you feel you wish to older generations or younger generations, the ones that are coming? What do you, what do you hope that they would know about your experience that is important and how you identify yourself? A: I mean, like I said, I'm kind of curious to know how much your parents, how much they know how influential this moment was. He said something that you've talked about? N: Oh, for sure. I think as soon as we got here, I mean, I started to tell him like: Oh, we went to this place and we went to, we went to the tianguis on Sunday and my tías gave me a Domingo and all this stuff like the smile on their faces was just was That's how, you know, you know, like they were they were like, Oh, well, yeah, yeah, yeah. N: Like, I feel like we couldn't have those conversations prior about those specific places and us visiting places that they've been two or 0 like we went to. La Esquina Blanca, which is in English, it's the white corner. N: But it's like this corner where a bunch of people hang out and they have smoothies and stuff like that. And just and I'd be like, Oh, we went to this place and they were like, Oh my gosh, they still call it that. N: And they, you know, I think we were finally able to have these conversations comfortably to where I truly understand like, oh, I feel like we became closer as a family because even now, she's like “Do you remember when you were ten? This this lady that you go up a little bit and then it's next to the blue house?”, like it, That's how small it was, the town. N: So I think as soon as I was talking to them about all the things I got to do, all the places, all the things that I saw, they just smile the whole time and I feel like they just were grateful that I went in. I truly saw things for myself. N: And what I would, what I would probably like my best advice to younger generations and older generations? It is for older generations to not stop talking about those things. You know, to just truly find out where your family came from. N: Like if you were born here like me and have no knowledge of anything, I think the best thing that they could do for themselves to truly find out who they are and where they came from, is to start from the root to either go there, ask about it, do research, talk to their older generation if possible. N: Because that was very influential. N: And I know, I know that. I'm not the only one that has, you know, has done that. But me and unknowingly going on vacation for two months. N: But I feel like more people need to start doing research or asking questions to get to the root of that. And for older generations to not, not stop that conversation from happening. If anything. Teach them and share all of those experiences. N: Because it is important for people to know where they came from. Otherwise, you don't know, that's a part of you. N: You can say, like I did at the beginning, I'm a teacher. I was born and raised here and that's it. You don't want to. Although people are okay with just saying that like there's just more to it than that. N: There's a reason why family is a certain way or family does certain things. I could start a tradition and it could start with me. N: But everything that we were taught came from somewhere. So I think that's important to keep, keep doing that, keep having those conversations and sharing them. Language of Interview English, some Spanish Format Video, audio only, text only Video City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Trancoso, Mexico Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Wichita, Kansas Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Nydia Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Mexico to Wichita, Kansas Description An account of the resource Nydia is a first grade teacher in the Wichita area and her parents are from Mexico. Before the strict regulation of the U.S.-Mexico border, she remembers that her family used to go to Mexico more frequently. Nydia speaks about the prevalence of community and how the same sense of knowing one another is not as common in the U.S. Her advice for the younger generation is to find out where their families came from. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Marta Caminero-Santangelo Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Late 1900s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Wichita, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_8drchrvr" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_8drchrvr/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Nydia"></iframe> Community Identity Mexico Wichita Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Yuvia Serna Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Rosie Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Rosie (R) Yuvia (Y) R: ¿Por qué Kansas? Llegamos a Kansas porque estaba [sic] unos familiares- De aquí..de allí, los familiares nos llevaron a una iglesia. R: Cuando estamos llegando a la escuela, la iglesia abrió más puertas para mí. R: Había una maestra en la clase de español y sus estudiantes hacían este…¿Cómo se dice “tutoring?” Titu–tituear por nosotros. Para que nosotros aprenderamos inglés mientras ellas enseñaban. Perdón, nosotros aprendemos inglés mientras nosotros enseñamos a los alumnos español. R: Y entonces, pienso de allí fue una gran experiencia poder de movernos, colocarnos en las posiciones que estamos ahora. Puesto que nosotros ayudamos a otras personas a aprender español entre a nosotros mismos aprendemos a inglés. R: Esto abrió varias puertas para mí. Tanto como conocer gente en nuestra comunidad y ayudarnos por supuesto en el nivel educativo. Y: ¿Qué año llegaste a Kansas? ¿y de dónde? R: Hace 27 años. Y: ¿y de dónde? R: de Chihuahua. Y: ¿Cómo fue tu viaje al entrar a la comunidad de aquí en Olathe? ¿Qué tipo de cosas has experimentado? R: Mi experiencia con la ciudad de aquí de Olathe, creo que Olathe es una ciudad muy calmada y es más tranquila, más que otras ciudades y me sentí desde que llegamos nos sentimos muy acogidos a la comunidad anglosajona y la comunidad hispana de aquí nos dieron mucha ayuda. Y: Además de venir aquí porque tenías familiares aquí, cuáles fueron otras razones porque quedaste aquí en Kansas? R: Pienso que una de las razones porque quedamos aquí en Kansas exactamente en la ciudad de Olathe este fue la tranquilidad y, no sé, las…¿Cómo se dice…? Las…las oportunidades que teníamos tanto como para ir a otra..para nuestro nivel educativo como otras cosas. Y: ¿Cuántos años tenías cuando llegaste? R: Tenía 16 años. Y: ¿Y llegaste para venir a high school? [silencio] Y: ¿Pasaste toda tu vida de aquí de los Estados Unidos en Kansas? R: Sí. Tengo 26 años viviendo aquí en Kansas en la ciudad de Olathe. Y: ¿Cuál fue la razón por la que te fuiste de Chihuahua? R: Por..porque venimos con mi mamá. [silencio] Y: Rosie, ¿qué mensaje le quieres mandar a la generación que viene, como tus hijos o tu sobrino o sobrina? R: …Cualquier organización que sea de sin fines de lucro porque siempre estas organizaciones van a ayudar a abrir más puertas. Y yo pienso que esa fue una de las llaves que yo pueda acercarme a mi comunidad y entender los problemas de otros en mi comunidad y ayudarlos a seguir. R: So… yo pienso que ayudarse a la parte…si eres parte de la comunidad, pones una ayudando a otra persona tanto hispana a entender las leyes o las costumbres de otros países, creo que estás haciendo algo mejor para las generaciones que vienen. Y: Ahorita te hablaste sobre el impacto que hizo apuntarte en organizaciones y ayudarte en la comunidad, como crees que te…¿Cómo diferencia creo que hizo que tu fuiste un inmigrante durante de esa experiencia? R: Perdón, no entendí la pregunta. Y: Siendo latinoamericana…latina, inmigrante en estas organizaciones, ¿qué crees fue el efecto de ser ese inmigrante? R: Pienso que…cuando estás en estas organizaciones, y tu eres esa voz que habla por los demás, creo que ven las cosas desde tu punto de vista como inmigrante y se toman en acuerdo…¿Cómo se dice cuando alguien…Cuando te toman en en cuenta que no solo hay el punto de vista que ellos están viendo la comunidad sino la punto de vista de alguien que viene de otras costumbres, de otras raíces, que viene a experimentar…que en mi caso vinieron con familiares, y pero hay personas que vienen de otros niveles de la sociedad que no tienen la misma ayuda que nosotros teníamos, yo pienso que eso fue– R: I mean…por ejemplo, pienso que muchos inmigrantes que han ido y ha sufrido por mucho tanto por no tienen las costumbres porque no tienen familia acerca de ellos ni…ser esa voz que ayuda a los demás, los que vienen detrás de tí. R: Pienso que es algo que me ayudó a ser quien soy hoy. Y: ¿Qué mensaje les quiere mandar a la generación anterior–tus padres, tus abuelos? ¿Qué les quiere mandar o que ellos sepan? R: Bueno, yo agradecería porque las decisiones que tomaron cuando yo era una menor…Gracias a esas decisiones que ellos tomaron soy quien soy ahora. Y tal vez sea una en un millón pero esa voz siempre va a estar levantando en mi comunidad porque gracias a eso soy miembro o miembra de varias organizaciones cerca de mi comunidad. Y: Y, alguna vez en tu tiempo aquí en Kansas, has podido regresar Chihuahua o has querido regresar a Chihuahua cuando no has podido? R: He regresado, sí porque siempre he podido regresar. Y: Pues, muchas gracias. Language of Interview Spanish Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Rosie Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Chihuahua, Mexico to Olathe, Kansas Description An account of the resource Rosie is from Chihuahua, Mexico. She first learned English while teaching Spanish to students. She says that the Olathe, Kansas community is friendly. Rosie is active in several local organizations after she found out that she could be a voice for immigrants like herself. Her advice to the younger generation is to understand the importance of giving back to one’s community. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1980s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Olathe, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_l2dd05dm" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_l2dd05dm/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Rosie"></iframe> Community Language Mexico Olathe Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Joohye Oh Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Rosina Language of Interview English City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin San Salvador, El Salvador Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Lawrence, Kansas Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Rosina Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from San Salvador, El Salvador to Lawrence, Kansas. Description An account of the resource Rosina grew up in San Salvador, El Salvador and received a Fulbright Scholarship which led her to study Journalism at the University of Kansas. Today, she teaches several Spanish classes including the new Spanish for Heritage Speakers class. She has gone back to El Salvador with her family and stays connected to her culture through podcasts and food. Rosina is also part of the Lawrence Salvadoran community that raises funds for a local scholarship for Latino/Hispanic students. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1993 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_pdevwyee" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_pdevwyee/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Rosina"></iframe> Community Education El Salvador Language Lawrence Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Sandra Language of Interview English City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Puerto Rico and Haiti Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Lawrence, Kansas Intermediate point in journey (1) City/State or Country to which interviewee (or parents/grandparents) traveled before coming to current point of residence Queens, New York City, New York Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sandra Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Puerto Rico and Haiti to Lawrence, Kansas. Description An account of the resource Sandra’s mother is from Puerto Rico and her father is from Haiti. Sandra came to Lawrence, Kansas for her PhD in English Literature. In this interview, she talks about the importance of education, food, and her parents’ experiences in the U.S. Later, Sandra also shares several personal experiences with the U.S. education system and her Caribbean background. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_q0t6grma" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_q0t6grma/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Sandra"></iframe> Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Community Culture Differences Haiti Identity Puerto Rico Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sayra Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Mexico to Kansas City, Kansas. Description An account of the resource Sayra is an Afro-Mexican who grew up in Kansas City. She attended diverse schools but connected with her Mexican-American identity most while in high school. In this interview, she addresses her parents, her childhood, and the diversity of the Spanish-speaking world Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Kansas City, Kansas Community Culture Differences Education Identity Kansas City Language Mexico Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Silvia Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Guatemala City, Guatemala to Lawrence, Kansas Description An account of the resource Silvia grew up in Guatemala City, Guatemala. Her passion for social justice was sparked by her own experience in Guatemala where she saw disrimination against the indigenous population. After deciding to continue her academic journey, she was offered a Graduate Teaching Assistant position at the University of Kansas. At KU, she met a wonderful, supportive community of international students. She continued her anthropology research and eventually got married. Towards the end of the interview, Silvia reflects on her path and life and the wonderful opportunities she has had. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Community Education Guatemala Identity Language Lawrence Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Aron Muci Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Suzette Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Video City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Nicaragua Intermediate point in journey (1) City/State or Country to which interviewee (or parents/grandparents) traveled before coming to current point of residence California Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Suzette (S) Aaron (A) S: Okay. My name’s Suzette Mendez. I came to Kansas when I was 12 years old–actually I was 10 years old–originally we lived in California and then I lived there…I came to the United States when I was a year and a half–so we lived in California and then moved to Kansas when I was 10 years old. And we’ve been here since then. S: I guess a story that comes to mind in regards with this project [Coming to the Heartland] is–my very first time when we went back home when we traveled to Nicaragua as a family. S: I had never been there. Like I said, I came to the States when I was a year and a half so I was never fully emerged [sic] in what the Nicaraguan culture was. S: I grew up here in the United States so this was all I had ever known. So when I went back it was really eye-opening; It was an experience that I would never forget. I remember how my life is very different from the life over there. S: I think that [deep exhale] when we went I was still–we went back when I was 12. So I got to experience the difference in culture. I got to learn more about where I came–where I’m coming from–my roots, so that was a really wonderful experience. [car honking] A: So is there something that happened on the trip that–correct me if I’m wrong, but you said that happened when you were 12, right?-- S: –Yes A: So is there something that happened on that trip that made you feel was important to you and that you were able to see some of the differences and that sort of thing…so what were some of the differences that you were able to see or what were some of the cultural aspects that you were able to learn? S: The food for sure. It’s very different. It’s something that–like my mom does Nicaraguan cooking but [pause] it’s–it’s different when you’re there, I guess, that’s what I want to say. S: The living aspect too, that’s the poverty–it’s one of things that struck me the most while I was down there. I noticed, you know–I could only imagine what would be my life if we had stayed in Nicaragua and never moved to the States. A: And could you maybe also explain a little bit about how your–I mean how do you see yourself today in terms of you being an immigrant– A: I mean with you immigrating so young coming to this country at such a young age did you see yourself as an immigrant growing up and going through school and things like that? Or did you see yourself in any other different light? S: Umm, no, like I never–Like I knew that my parents and I were from Nicaragua but I never really identified myself as like an immigrant. S: Like growing up, when I was smaller in elementary school, like I never thought about it that way I guess. S: When I started to get older, that’s when I could say, I know where I came from and I know that I’m an immigrant and that my parents were immigrants and that I was the very first generation to go to college and so it–that’s when I started to in high school–or elementary–in middle and high school when everything came into play. S: When we first got our legal status, I guess, then my parents kinda had a talk with me about what it was and that’s when we got to go back home [to Nicaragua]. S: Then they explained that they had been here for several years, I think that it was maybe 10 years that they had not been able to see their family so they explained that they were going to take a trip and we were going to be able to meet our cousins, our aunts, uncles, grandparents. A: Is that something you were excited for? Or was it something you were fearful of? Or just kinda unsure about? What were kinda some of the things that they prepared you for going back for the first time? S: To me, it was fun–it was exciting. I never grew up with any grandparents so that was something very difficult and different because I would know and because my friends would have their grandparents here and so I didn’t get to experience that until I was 12 years old and even at that time you would go for two weeks, three weeks at most, so I never really got that connection with my grandparents. S: With cousins, I never really grew up with cousins. The ones that I had in California were like two-three cousins and we would see them every so often for holidays so, like I said, I never emerged [sic] myself into the whole family environment with parents with my grandparents or my extended family because they weren’t living here, they were living back home. A: One of the–some of the things that others have talked about in their interviews is what they hope to share with maybe older generations or younger generations–So is there something about yourself that you feel like older generations or younger generations. A: So is there something about yourself, something that you learned about yourself that you feel like older generations don’t know about you in terms of how you see yourself? Or, is there something that you want to share with younger generations about who you are that you feel is important? S: I think what I would say to the younger generations would be to know where you come from. From a very early early years, learn your Spanish–I mean whatever language you speak: that’s something I always try to teach my child, now that I have a son, is you–you need to know where you’re coming from and it’s hard. S: Especially nowadays I know that I speak to him a lot in English and so his dad tries to speak to him in Spanish. And it gets hard for him [Suzette’s son] too and so sometimes [Suzette’s son] is like “I don’t want to speak in Spanish.” And I try to teach him why it’s important to do so. Where is his–where he is coming from, where his parents are coming from. S: So that’s something that I would try and advise the younger generation. A: And have you had a chance to take your son to Nicaragua? And has it been an opportunity to share a little bit of where you come from? And what was the experience for him? S: We have. I’ve taken him maybe about three times now. S: I think that the first time that I took him he was a year and a half–and one of the things that I try to explain to him is how fortunate we are in this country and we go back so he can see the difference between these two countries and what we have and cherish what we have here. S: We–I wanted him to know, you know, about poverty and how we can help people and so one of the trips we took down there, we made like 150 sandwiches and we bought drinks–water, pop, all that kinds of stuff–and then–and so we went to the streets and we took a car and we drove through the streets. S: At the stop lights there’s always homeless people or people working and try to get a little bit of money and so we would stop there and we would see all kinds of people–people in wheelchairs, little kids selling gum or drinks and stuff like that. S: And so we would stop and he would hand them [the sandwiches and drinks] out. People would just come towards the car and Isaac, that’s my son’s name, and Isaac would just roll down the windows and we would just hand sandwiches and drinks out. And so that is something that has always stuck in his mind and to this day he tells me “When are we going to do that again?” S: So I know that that made an impact on his seven years of life that he has, so yeah. A: That’s really great. I’m glad that he was able to have that experience that was so inspirational for him and exciting for him to go back and–that’s fantastic. A: Okay, wonderful. Thanks so much, Suzette, for participating in this project. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Suzette Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Mexico to Kansas. Description An account of the resource Suzette was born in the United States but her parents are from Nicaragua. In this interview, she talks about visiting Nicaragua, being a first-generation college graduate and connecting with her family. Her advice for the younger generation is to learn Spanish or their heritage language and embrace where they come from. Suzette also highlights the importance of giving back to one’s community. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_9w99c2kp" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_9w99c2kp/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland_Suzette_Trimmed.mp4"></iframe> California Education Identity Kansas Nicaragua