3 10 49 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Itzel Nava Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jessica (pseudonym) Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Itzel Nava (I) Jessica–pseudonym (J) J: So my mom is from Benin, B-E-N-I-N, and then my dad is from Ghana, so they both. So my mom like immigrated when she was like 23, I think, and she just like left [unknown] and then she came to America for like opportunity and so did my dad. J: But they met here in America. So they–and my dad, he was like in his 30s I think, and– J: So she started off, she went to New York first to like kind of start off because I guess she knew someone there. And then she moved to Chicago when she was in her late '20s. And then she started a business. And the business is like braiding [hair]. So she has like a braiding stuff– I: Okay. J: –In Chicago. And my dad, he started off working like small jobs like like manufacturing jobs, factory jobs. And now he's like a CTA bus driver for like the Chicago Transit. J: And they're still working those jobs today because like without like [college] degrees and stuff, like, they didn't get to go to college here, so they don't have, like, jobs that, like, require degrees and stuff. J: So and then they had my sister. Like me and my sister, yeah. I: Okay. So then–so you said you your parents like met here in the United States? J: Yeah. I: Okay. And then and, sorry, you said your dad is from Ghana? J: Ghana. I: And your mom, she's from Benin? J: Yeah. I: Okay. And so so did they have other family members that were already living here in the United States or were they kind of just like the first ones who came? J: The first ones who came, They both didn't have anyone here, but my mom knew like a person that she could stay with here because she didn't really know them. It was just like someone that could help her get on her feet, you know. I: Okay. Okay. So they like they both just came here by themselves and have they ever shared, like just like their experiences with like when they first like, moved here, like what was the most difficult thing for them or like yeah, something that just like kind of complicated towards the beginning? J: Okay. So my mom, her local situation was pretty like messed up. She she like staying with people that she didn't really know too well. So she like kind of moved around a lot and she had to like find friends that she could kind of crash with. Like the hardest part for her was just like knowing where to start because she didn't know English like at all. Her country is not an English speaking country–it’s a French-speaking country. She had to just learn from like hearing other people talk and stuff like that. So a big barrier was like the language and then them not having college degrees to like, find jobs. Yeah. I: So then–so your mom, she speaks French? J: Yes, She speaks French. I: Okay. And then do you speak French? J: Yes. I: Okay. That's really cool. That's really cool. Okay. So then the biggest like, barrier was like the language and just like finding like, a place to like, lived for her towards the beginning, right? J: Yes. I: Okay. And like, has your dad like, shared any, like, experiences that he thought was like difficult for him, like towards the beginning or It was the same thing for him since he didn't know Yeah. So the situation for him was just the same thing, like the language? J: So he went to Rida for a year and then he didn't have the money to like keep going to school so he had to like drop out. I: Okay. So like the biggest, like, barrier was definitely like, the language? Like coming to the United States, so. Does your family primarily speak French? J: Yeah. So my dad does French. She speaks another language called Yoruba. I: Okay. But my mom does. Your mom speaks French? Is are there any do you have a certain favorite like celebration or tradition that like your family does or just something that's like your Yeah, just like culture wise. Culture wise? J: Unfortunately, they like assimilated into America. They left a lot behind. But the stuff that we do have left is like the language and the food. Food is really good. We just have a lot of whenever we have like birthday parties, they would just cook home meals and stuff. My grandmother makes like clothes and stuff from Africa. She would like send it to us. J: Basically just like clothes, food, and then the language but all that other stuff they just left behind. I: Okay– J: –Oh, sorry. I: No, you're good because what are we going to say? J: Because there's, there was no place for the stuff that they used to know in America, you know? Yeah. So they kind of just left that all behind once they came to the United States. I: And what's your favorite food? J: My favorite dish from there is definitely fufu. I: Okay, and what is that like? Like, what is it? J: So it's like this doughy, it's like dough and like flour kind of mixed together to make a very thick, like bready kind of thing. It's like bread, it's like floury. You mix it with like soup or okra or jambalaya, stuff like that. Like soups and stuff and it– I: Okay. And does your mom like make that often or is it just like? J: Yeah, she makes it pretty often. And like our go-to like dinner meal is like rice. I: Okay. Okay. I: Yeah, that sounds really good. Sounds like a really good dish. And you said that like for parties and stuff, like, you guys do a lot of like cooking? J: Yeah. Yeah, we cook a lot. I: That's awesome. Okay. So that's kind of like your favorite dish. And you said like, no, there's really not that much of like tradition-wise, but you said that your grandma used to make like clothing, right? And send it to you guys? J: Yeah, she makes clothes and she sends it to us. [short pause] I: Okay. All right. Sorry. Yeah, like cut out. Okay. And then I guess like we already touched a little bit on your parents, like moving here like when they were younger and have they ever talked about like what the main motive for moving here was? J: America was advertised as a place of opportunity and money, and they both kind of came from impoverished regions in their country so they just kind of wanted more they did that to start the next generation of their family, but in a better place and a more secure, a more financially stable way. I: Okay…so it's, I guess like back then it was more of like the American dream, right? Like moving here for better opportunities. That was what they were hoping for, like, in their new life. And we already covered their journey well. I guess like their journey moving to the United States. Your mom first moved to New York, right? J: Right. I: And then she moved to Chicago? J: Yes. I: And then did your dad like always, just like live in–like did he move to Chicago? And he remained in Chicago? J: So he lived in New Jersey first– I:--He lived okay. J: They met and then they moved to Chicago together. New Jersey and New York are pretty close. Yeah. Okay. And they I: However they like moved at different times, right? Who came to the United States first? Was it your dad? J: Yes. So it was my dad. I: [confirming] Your dad and then your mom. I: And so like how do you think that like I guess like migration has changed you, like shaped you? I know like you weren't the one who migrated, but like your parents, they obviously have like their migration story and you're like living like in the United States, but you still have the culture and like all of that like with you. So how do you think like it has like shaped you, changed you like in a way? J: Okay. They have that background. So I know where they came from and they taught me like how little they had there. Them being here and us being born here is a privilege and we shouldn't take it for granted. I look at things like as I am because they could've just stayed over there [in Africa] and I would've been born I guess there or something like that. J: But I have, I look at things like education. I look at that as like a privilege and something that's very valuable because that's what they taught me. I: Yeah. The super cool that you are to take all of that and put it in the perspective, it's more like the sacrifice that was done and you're given all these opportunities here from that regarding how it has shaped you or changed you. I: Is there anything else like you would want to share? Yeah…just anything? J: Yeah. Just yeah, I went–we go back sometimes. The last time it goes back was when I was like nine or ten and we stayed in the village that my mom grew up in. It was just a very big difference, the culture and the language, and then their values and morals. J: They're so much different than the American values and morals. I would just say that I was raised in an environment where I was raised in an environment where the African morals and traditions stuck to me. J: And then it's kind of being raised like I was in Africa, but I have like a social life in America. J: So there's a bunch of differences and yeah… I: So you think that the morals and the values are just very contrast from like I guess like the way it is in the United States? J: Right. and it was, it was like growing up in two different worlds. Like I would–my parents like taught me everything they know about everything they know, but from like Africa. But then I grew up here, school here, I made friends here. So like I would, it was like like living in both worlds, right? I: Yeah. You got to see like a perspective in both. I: So is there anything specific like within the values and the morals that you think like that you've noticed that's different specifically? J: Definitely, education and money. J: Like in Africa, it was like a privilege to have an education. Like not everyone went to school because they couldn't afford it. Here, like public schools make it–you have to go to school up until age 18; back there, like you didn't have to. It was like if you had the money to, you know. J: So here like here, education is taken as like a burden. J: Sometimes all of the time over there it would be like you struck gold or something like it was like a privilege. I: So it's more like, I guess in a way like taken for granted here whereas there [Africa] it's seen as like you're given that opportunity, it's like a privilege that you can go to school. Okay. J: Yeah. I: I totally understand that. The whole values and morals thing too, because my parents are both Mexican and just like being like raised in the United States, obviously, you see all the differences of like I was basically raised like as if I was like, you know, Mexican or like living like you're in Mexico but then you're like surrounded by like, you know, all your friends. Like they do certain things maybe your parents like wouldn't let you do and things like that. I: Like sometimes they would get kind of like, I'd be like, oh gosh, I can they be like, “Why not? I'm like, because I just can't. Um, yeah. J: No, I totally get that. I: So yeah, it's like literally like living in two worlds, two completely different things. J: Yeah. Okay. I: Thank you so much for sharing all of that. J: No problem. I: Yeah, thank you so much. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jessica (pseudonym) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Ghana Description An account of the resource Interview Summary Jessica’s mother is from Benin and her father is from Ghana. Her parents came to the United States to give Jessica a better opportunity and worked various small jobs to supplement their income. Jessica says that her family is mostly assimilated but still maintains a connection through food, such as fufu, and language, French and Yoruba. Jessica says that she was raised with African values but with an American social life. She says that “it was like growing up in two different worlds.” Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_92rde93c" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_92rde93c/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Jessica (Pseudonym)_Interview Trimmed"></iframe> Community Education Ghana Language Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Joao Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Video City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Bahia, Brazil Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Lawrence, Kansas Intermediate point in journey (1) City/State or Country to which interviewee (or parents/grandparents) traveled before coming to current point of residence Pittsburg, Kansas Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Joao (J) Marta (M) J: With my savings in everything that I got, after I left my company, I had less than $100 in my pocket. That's how I got to the United States. J: And I got the job in Maine, way up north. So I was so that's that's how I got here. And then I say is speaking very, very little English and with no money in my pocket. J: I remember my first job was at a ski resort and the job was to work as a ski lift operator. So it'd be outdoors all the time. And I had to work overtime so I couldn't make more money. J: And there was really hard because I didn't have money to buy the right boots, so I bought like a $20 pair of boots from Walmart. And I remember like it was really cold. It was difficult in the beginning. J: And I remember talking to my supervisor. They're asking for a different job at the ski resort and that I could do anything. J: So they put me to work as a housekeeper. J: And I remember I was the only happy housekeeper at the ski resort [unknwon] always complain about it. I would say no, this is really good. I get to be indoors all the time, so I was very happy about it. J: And so while I was there [in Maine], my university in Brazil had an exchange agreement with Pittsburg State University here in Kansas–Pitt State, it's about two hours from Lawrence. And…but in order to be able to participate in this exchange agreement, I had to pass the TOEFL test and my English skills were very limited. J: So my idea, my plan after I left Brazil was I'm going to work at a ski resort, learn English as much as I can, and then see if after April I can move to Kansas and start school in August…in Kansas. J: This is the idea. I could not go directly to Pitt State because I didn't speak English. J: So my idea is, okay, I'm gonna do these, save as much money as I can, work in Maine and then move to Kansas. J: But I mean, I mean, all the plans were very I mean, I had no idea if things would work out just like a big plan. J: And actually then I worked in Maine and worked overtime. I remember I had two or three different jobs at once and worked weekends and didn't take days off. And I was able I remember like leaving Maine with about $3,000 in my pocket and move into Kansas. J: When I got there to Pitt State, I–I thought my English wasn't good enough to take the TOEFL so I took one last English class. They have this English–Teaching English program at the university that costs like $2,000 for one module, so I did one month. J: But in my case, I had to take to do like two modules and they just had money from one. So I said “Okay, I'm gonna do one and take the TOEFL.” If you're taking the TOEFL, don't need to do the other one. And that's what happened. J: Then I didn't have time to study for the TOEFL and because I had to work also at that time, I had an on-campus job and off-campus job. And I so I've been all like all those lay–low paid labor positions. I’ve been a dishwasher, a housekeeper, I delivered pizza. I made burritos. J: I've had more than 20 different jobs in the US and neither have I remember going to get an appointment for the TOEFL. And they told me and then my plan was to take from one month from that day just to get these [unknown] do some kind of steady, and even though I have very little time because I was working a lot. J: And they told me know, if you want to take the TOEFL and you want to get the results by August to be able to enroll as a PSU student next semester, you need to take it today. J: And I remember going back home getting my checkbook because I had to pay. And that's how I took the TOEFL without… J: I just–I remember just sitting in front of the computer. That's how I took the exam and say, “Okay, whatever happens now.” And so I took it and then I think it was like two weeks later–at that time, like how this process was slower. I think nowadays you'll get the results fastest, faster… J: And I remember, I even asked the Secretary of the International Office at Pitt State to call and make sure that she got to the score numbers right because I was afraid they would misunderstand anything. J: And she called the TOEFL and she told me I had passed but very barely I remember the minimum score was 190. And I got 194, like maybe one or two questions that made the difference and I couldn't believe it. I couldn’t believe that I passed it. And so that's then from there, I was able to enroll in school and business classes and be a full-time student at PSU without having to pay tuition. M: Okay. Let me ask a couple of factual questions here. I'm taking notes as I go. M: How old were you and what age were you when you first came to the US and went to Maine? J: I was 21 or 22. I know that I was at least 21 because I could drink. And I remember that that was one of the cultural differences. That you had to be 21 to drink, to go to a bar and drink; in Brazil I had been doing that since I was 16. M: Wait a minute. So what year was this? J: I think it was 2001–was the first time I got here. 2001. Because I'm 40. Yeah, I was twenty two. 21. 22. M: Okay. Where in Brazil did you come from? J: From the south. Rio Grande du Sol. It's–the hometown is Bagé. M: Okay. J: This is like 30 miles from Uruguay, right on the border. M: Okay. When you went to Pitt State, what program were you enrolled in? Was it a grad program or an undergrad program? J: Undergrad. Undergrad. Business. Because this is something that I–for me, business was a choice because when I lived in Brazil, the easiest way to get a job was pretty much work in business. I wasn't that I was very, very interested in business, ended up doing business later in my life and I even had my own company. But I never really liked to study business and to read a business book to this day for me, it's one of the most boring things in the world but that way it was more like a survival thing than anything else, wasn't that I was really passionate about business. M: Okay. Go ahead. J: So then I became an exchange student at PSU. At that time I didn't have to pay tuition because of the exchange agreement with my Brazilian university. J: And then I got a job on campus, working 20 hours a week. J: And then in my second, second semester. So as I was living in the cheapest place on campus because I didn't, I didn't, I didn't have credit card, I didn't have money from my family, anything. I had to live just by the 20 hours at minimum wage that I worked on campus. J: And then one day I remember we–I learned about the host family program that they had. And so I went to the library to find out about [what] the host family program was and they told me that you had the opportunity to have a local family. They are to take you and on the weekends to places and do stuff like that. J: And I asked them, “Don't you guys have something that you have, you can live with the family?” and be like I, because I thought it would be a good way to learn English, to improve my English. And the lady that organized the program told me “No, but let me know, but let me see if I can find something for you.” J: And then two weeks later, she told me to come work at the at the library at Pitt State, she was a librarian and she told me, “Come, come here and talk to my boss; he's been to Paraguay many times.” J: He was the Dean of learning resources, which includes the library. He was in charge for the library at Pitt State. And he might be interested in taking you as, as his guest in his place but he wants to talk to you first to see if you are not like the regular college student that just wants to party. J: So then I went and I talked to him and he became my second father. To this day. J: And he actually invited my brother. I have a younger brother to come to United States and even paid tuition for my brother–he became..he is family, now–he’s family. And he became one of the most important people in my life. J: And it was funny how things happen like to be. I never imagined that it would be in Kansas and I’ll have like almost like a second father to me. And he helped me a lot, helped my family helped my brother. And to this day we hear my son calls him Grampa Bob because he comes home because he still lives that Pittsburgh. J: And that's the end finishing day. And I was able to extend the exchange agreement from two semesters to the whole thing, I was able to graduate Pitt State, which was excellent for me because I didn't have to be we shouldn't. I was able to finish getting a degree from here from the United States was something that I never imagined when I lived in Brazil. J: Because when that left Brazil, I only had the guarantee that had this three months work, working at the ski resort. Everything from there was just like things that couldn't happen until things turn out much better than I initially thought from Brazil. J: And then from there, there's a long story. Then from there I ended up, I started my MBA, there at the same university after I finished my BA– M: –Even though you hated business? J: Well, it's just convenient at that time. I wasn't really big. I mean, nowadays I'm, I think I'm a good student. I wasn't like that at that time. Like that's for me, school was much more a way to advance my career, to get a diploma. And I wasn't really big in education at that time for me or as much more, get a job, make money. This was important for me at that time. J: When I started, I did one semester of the MBA. And during the summer, I went to Thailand as an exchange student from PSU. And I am supposed to stay three months in Thailand and then go back to the US. I ended up loving Thailand and I stayed two years there. J: And so I stayed at least two years in Bangkok. I lived briefly in Poland, in Warsaw. And then, and then I went into Chile. J: In Chile, I met my wife and we lived in Chile for five years. And my wife is from the north of Brazil, is from the, from Pará, which if you look at Brazil map is the two extremes. Way up. Now if I'm way down south, we ended up living five years in Chile, and went back to Brazil. J: And so I'm jumping a lot here because I want to explain how I got back. In Chile. I had my own company. I actually made very good money or while working in the company. J: And then I had a family situation also, if then that made me had have to return to Brazil. And then in Brazil I was working in business. And one day, I was invited to give a talk at a local university about my international experience. I should talk about the student knows how I had gone to the United States. J: So in Thailand, I worked as a teacher because that was the easiest way to get a job in Bangkok. Pretty much if you are white, have round eyes and you have a diploma from the United States, you can teach. J: And I was teaching at a university that I was way under-qualified for just because of my physical appearance, I got the job. So I ended up leaving. That's how I got into teaching or just because it was a necessity, that was the only job that I pretty much that could get in Bangkok. J: And then I went, when I went to this local university to give this talk about my international experience, I went back home and told my wife I need to go back to school. That's why I ended up loving teaching in Thailand. And I'm not really happy. J: I don't care that much about the money situation as long as I have enough to pay my bills. J: And then I got back home and told my wife about that: I'm thinking about applying for a master's program in US. And she was very supportive. And she told me, “Yeah, If you think this is the best thing for you.” And she liked the idea of moving here to United States, so I contact… J: In Thailand. I had thought about doing a master's degree and I had contacted Professor Brent Metz, who at that time was working at the Center for Latin American and Caribbean Studies. But I think he was the assistance that assistance of Professor [Elizabeth] Kuznesof at that time or something like that. He was working. And I remember he told me at that time that they could not give me a scholarship because they didn't have enough money, but they would take me as a student in the master's program. And for me that was not a viable solution because I couldn't pay tuition. J: Then. So I got back home like 15 years like more than ten years later after that email that had sent to print maps. And say, oh, maybe I have it still have the contact of the guy from KU. I'm going to email him asking about masters for any opportunities in Kansas, but had no idea if you worked at KU, if what he was doing. I just got his email address, my email account, and I sent Brent in an email. There was in 2000…2016. Yeah. Oh, I see. Around like I am thinking about getting a master's degree, but I felt like maybe in two years from that time I could save money and come to the United States. And I usually around like I really would like to get a master's degree in Latin American Studies. J: And he–I didn't expect he would write me back–and he did like right away and say, oh, actually I am the director because he, Professor [Unknown] was on leave. That's a massive and he he took over as the director for that semester. The center. I'm actually the director at the Center, and I'd love to have you here as a student. Then things got serious from there. And then he told me that he they had only one scholarship at the center. J: That time was I think Joe was the TA at a time. So he tried to get me funding through the Spanish program. As I spoke Spanish. I couldn't teach Portuguese because Portuguese, there isn't a lot of demand for Portuguese classes and they couldn't hire it, a Portuguese instructor. So that's how I got here. They got me a scholarship to teach Spanish for the first year and that's how I got here. J: I had been here just once before because KU use to host a Brazilian carnival. And while I was at Pitt State, I came to visit here, the campus. And I just had this idea, told my wife that place is really beautiful. I remember walking on campus and walking on Mass[achusetts] Street and say, like, I just had this feeling, that place is really cool. I think if we leave there, we're going to like it. But I didn't I mean, I was I came here just to party that weekend. So I didn't have any concrete plans. I just I just had the feeling. I left Lawrence with the feeling that place is really cool, is beautiful, the campus is beautiful and the university is very good. J: And that's all I got here. J: It was in 2000…2016…yeah, 2016. I applied for it in 2015. Got here in 2016. And my wife was pregnant. She was five months? Yeah. Yeah. About five months into the pregnancy when we got here. So we are very concerned about this situation because we didn't know about the hospital situation. I always heard and felt also the experience of having to go to a hospital here and getting these huge bill for something that was very basic. J: I remember when I was at Pitt State, I hurt my arm and I fell off my bike school and I remember getting these $500 bill. So I was like, I don't know what this is going to cost to deliver a baby here, but.. J: So we came here with this very excited but very concerned at the same time with the things turned out to be way better than we expected at the hospital and the health insurance and everything. J: Everything worked out fine. J: And so I did the first, when I got, my idea was to do an interdisciplinary master's program because at that time I wasn't really sure what my discipline was. I just knew it was something in the humanities. J: That's the only thing that I knew. J: But I didn't really know to be history. And so I took classes for a semester, some classes from Portuguese and Spanish department and two classes, a history class with Professor Kuznesof. J: And after that semester for me, it was 100% clear. That's what I want to do: history, that's my field and Professor Kuznesof, of course, became my advisor and I mean, I–I don't have words to thank her for everything that she's done for me here. J: And it's on that and say, okay, so I took the, the end after my first year teaching Spanish. Professor Sontiago was in the transition to leave and you're taking over the department she had before she left? I think she had made arrangements for me to become the TA for the center. J: And I remember that my third semester I would take over Professor [Robert] Schwaller’s class, which was a challenge. J: I've been always open to take up challenges here they say, Oh, well I teach another class, you know this better than anyone and say, Okay, yes. J: I believe in preparation. If you prepare yourself, you can do it. That's the way I saw it: it would be a good challenge. J: And so after of the day, I had the best, the best experience here. J: And then from there it was obvious that I was going to continue my studies. I didn't want to stop at the master's degree. And I applied to the PhD program in history. J: At that point, I know 100% history is my discipline and so I’ve been here [Lawrence, KS] and now it's been five years. My son is four now. J: Now we are in the process of moving to Virginia and we already think about how much you're going to miss Lawrence because if you have had the best years of my life, I'd say I think it's four or five years here, that's been excellent. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Joao Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Brazil to Lawrence, Kansas. Description An account of the resource Joao is from Bahia, Brazil. In Brazil, he took night classes from a local college while working full-time at a company. During this time, Joao also started to take English lessons. He arrived in the U.S. and took business classes at Pittsburg State University in order to advance his career. Joao reflects on his scholarly experience which would not have been the same without support from the University of Kansas’ Center for Latin American and Caribbean Studies. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_anvuakc1" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_anvuakc1/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Joao Interview Trimmed"></iframe> Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2001 Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Brazil Education Identity Lawrence Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Maggie Wilcox Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Joel Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Audio City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Democractic Republic of Congo Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Kirksville, Missouri Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Joel Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from the Democratic Republic of Congo to Kirksville, Missouri. Description An account of the resource Joel lives in Kirksville, Missouri and is from the Democratic Republic of Congo. When asked what his biggest challenge is, Joel answered that it is the language. He also recounts his initial impressions of Kirksville and the racism he encountered. However, he says that he has found several close friends. He currently works at a factory but has dreams of graduating from bible college and sharing his Christain faith with the greater world. Joel hopes that he hopes to see more Congolese individuals attending college. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Kirksville, Missouri Community Democratic Republic of Congo Discrimination Education Kirksville Language Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed José Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data video Language of Interview English, some Spanish Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Kansas City, Kansas Intermediate point in journey (1) City/State or Country to which interviewee (or parents/grandparents) traveled before coming to current point of residence Overland Park, Kansas Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound José (J) Marta (M) J: I do identify as an immigrant. I know there's a lot of things that are attached to that for a lot of people, but for me, it's simply that I came from another place that had already formed me to some extent. J: I left when I was a little over 9.5 years–about 9.5 years old. I was born in Bucaramanga, Colombia, South America. The coffee region in the mountains. I have great memories of place. The house that I spent most of the time with. J: When my mother came up here, she immigrated earlier than my brother and I did. She came up here with my sister. She married an American stationed at Fort Leavenworth. So she came up here looking to settle herself down and put the roots that would then allow for her to bring my brother and I up here. J: There was a long separation. J: We were basically in the care of my grandmother. I recall for a little while there was kind of not an orphanage, but it was like a school, a private school where we lived with the family. I think that was kind of a failed experiment, to be honest. J: My memories of that are kind of murky, but they weren't all that nice. J: But then, most of the time, I do remember being taken care of by my grandmother. And we would visit various aunts. There's four aunts that were part of the family. They were stretched from Armenia to Medellin, Barranquilla, and Bucaramanga. Also, there was the ancestral home, which was Puerto Wilches. But that was kind of like my negotiations. I mean, that was kind of like the background, the place that I identified that I knew spending summers or whatever it would have been visiting other families, always kind of being pulled along by my grandmother. J: And then, like around 8.5. I remember there was about a year-long process. We got a notice. And I I really don't even know exactly where or anything. I have no recollection of it, but we knew we were going to go and visit our mother. J: And which was kind of a strange thing because when you're separated from somebody for that long, you kind of don't really have the grounding of who they really are. I mean, my grandmother was raising my brother and I. J: I had no real sense that there was another person more responsible for that than than my grandmother. And so I remember we were we got a little introduction to the English language. It would not be fair to say that I came totally not knowing some words, but it was at the most rudimentary level that a nine year old might be paying attention to when they think of coming to this country it's just like which is going for a visit. J: It's kind of almost like a lark. J: I don't understand my brother and I understood the seriousness of what was about to happen. Sure. J: We arrived December 29, I remember, five 30 in the evening. I don't know why that sticks with me. There must have been something that I saw or. Somebody said. I know we were my brother and I were sat in a two seats next to each other. We were under the care of the stewardesses, the airplane staff primarily. J: I remember I think it was the captain or one of the mates helping us off the plane and landed on the tarmac back then. And then being taken inside where my mother and my stepfather and my sister at that time, were waiting for us. J: I just recall we really had the sense that we were just going for a visit. We had no clue that we were never coming back. And I think it kind of dawned on us I still don't even know what it meant to me, honestly, to be truthful about it. I don't think I was thinking too much about things. There was just like, things were coming at us in so many different ways. J: I remember we spent some time in Miami. I think we went to the beach, which was kind of interesting is the last place we saw when we left, I started Tajena and then we're in Miami. I do recall getting in the car. My stepfather drove a ’56 Chevy Sedan, I was kind of like a two tone white kind of a powder blue baby blue thing. I've always seen that. Every time I see one of those cars, I get extremely nostalgic. J: But I remember getting in the car and we just drove up from the south up to Kansas City. J: And I think the thing that stands out the most about that trip from me and has impacted me more more I thought about it or reflected on it. I remember we went we were driving up through Mississippi. And this is early 1965, because I think we spent about a week or two in Miami before we drove–headed north towards Kansas City. J: We had stopped by we had driven by town called Jackson. I can remember that so clearly. My stepfather is leaning over and asking me to say the word Jackson. And I'm trying to say it, but, you know, with Spanish, the “J” is a very hard sounds like “hota.” I'm saying Jackson Jackson. And he say no, say soft soft. I just kept going, Oh, I just finally gave up. J: And he stopped, but he then said something that has always been kind of like the formative thing for me and the most instructional thing about where we were headed. He said there will be people in this country who will not like you or judge you by the color of your skin. J: And I didn't I don't think it didn't sink in. J: I had no clue what he was talking about because Well, my brother is very white-presenting. Very caucasian looking. I'm brown, but it didn't seem like anything that was a distinction. It was like a distinction without any meaning towards me. I didn't see it. J: It was at that moment, I realized I had a color. J: A friend of mine, Xánath Caraza wrote a book was a great poem that she had into when she came to this country. She was you know, she says, what color are you? She says, Oh, I can pick any color I want. J: Well, we didn't have that option because we were too young to understand what the hell was going on. J: But I remember not understanding that. We started crying. My brother and I started crying. J: Years later, I understood and I wrote a poem about this. I understood what he was really trying to say because we were driving through the Jackson, Mississippi, the South of the 1960s three months earlier. And I did not know any of this at the time. I discovered this later when I was started reading history. So. There had been Shane Schwarmer Goodman been kidnapped. And there were civil rights workers trying to register people for the vote in the South. And they had been kidnapped and disappeared and then found dead. J: The Klan was involved. J: But I didn't know that. But I think that was what he was trying to tell me. I think he was aware that this would be something that would kind of define some aspect of my life or my brother and I's life or any immigrant’s life. J: Just fast forward or let's go back a minute. My images of America were very much constructed by the realities that were presented to some television screens. And I really never thought about the North. I never thought about North America much. It wasn't in my mentality. J: The only thing I recall are two things. We used to have a television that sat underneath the stairs that went to this alcove was a room above the garage. And the garage had been converted into a roof for my brother and I to live in where we were sleeping. That was our bedroom after my mother had come up. But I remember when you stepped out, there was the stairs that led upstairs, and underneath that little alcove that construction made is where the television was at. J: It was not really something we watched a lot because it was inconsequential. It was, Oh, there it is underneath the steps. It was chairs there, but I remember the show that sticks out to me the most Ponderosa, which translated means bonanza. That was my image of the United States, really, the Ponderosa. J: The other one was even something that had taken place probably about a well, 1963, November 22, 1963. I can recall distinctly, a lot of people from the US will say they know exactly where they were at what Kennedy was shot. J: Well, I know exactly what I was doing. We were my cousins and I were in the backyard shucking peace. There was going to be a family dinner because they were wanting to be many of. And we were shucking peas. J: And there was a lot. J: But it was, you know, kids would make a game out of it. J: But then one of my cousins came out and grabbed the whatever container we were putting the piece into and took them away from us and then got the other piece and just scoped away. She was angry, she was mad, she was crying. We didn't know what was going on being us kids. We just started playing, we just went on and played and played. But soon, you could hear the wail of the women in the room extending out into the backyard. And that was when we were told that the president of the United States had died. J: Yeah. I don't I can't tell you that it meant anything to me at that point. J: But it's an extremely vivid memory that I have of how the US impacted our family down there. I'm sure I could go back and find any reasons why the women were so incensed or surprised, saddened by what had happened up North. But like I said, I had no connection to that beyond that. J: Years later, of course, I became totally enthralled, I think, by the idea of the conspiracy theories that came out about Kennedy's death. It was like a really big education about the political systems and the contradictions in this country. J: But at that point, I was just a kid. I was glad that we didn't have to shut the piece because my cousin took them all and we went out and played until the sadness of the room brought us all back together. I don't recall much after that. But those are the two– M: Can I ask a quick question: So you were not in the US for the assassination of Kennedy? J: I was not. We came up here a year and a month later. But I think. M: Okay. Yeah. J: That was the first instinct that I knew about the presidents of that country something significant. J: So fast forward, we arrive in Kansas City, we drive through the South, and we arrive in right here in Kansas City over in the West Bluffs just off Cesar Chavez Avenida on the West Side. And we lived there for about two years. It's the projects overlooking the stockyards, I can recall. J: I have a vivid memory of what that place looked like because I mean, that was my life for the next two years. But I remember the smell of the stock yards because they were still there. I literally was we could go to the edge of the cliffs and overlooked down the American Royal and we could see it. That was like before they built Kemper Arena. J: So we could see the stuff, we could see what was going on. But that was kind of our introduction. J: I remember distinctly snow, the first disappointment of winter. We used to do this ritual in Christmas in Colombia, where we'd go and get a tree for the Christmas tree. And my cousins and I, we would strip the tree bare then we'd spend all this time gluing these little balls, white foam balls kind to make it look like it had snow. J: So you know, we're getting close to Kansas City. I remember that night we arrived in Kansas City. It was cold and there was snow on the ground. And I remember my stepfather taking us out we kind of like got un familiar with the house it was in the evening. J: And I remember my brother and sister and cry because it wouldn't make a snowman. I mean, that was the only thing I knew about snow. I was like, you make a snowman. It was like, dry powdery snow and all I could get was little pyramids, you know? J: So that was my first disappointment with snow and I've never gotten over it because I can't stand winter. Never will be able to adapt to that. J: But that was really the introduction we came. We were on the West Side. And there was really Outside of the bitterness of the cold, you're young. I can't tell you what I was thinking and other stuff, but I think the transition was kind of smooth in the ways because the West Side of that time, especially the projects we were at, there were a lot of immigrants that were living there that came from South America. I can't remember there was some Ecuadorians, Peruanos, Colombianos that lived in that area. They were. M: I was going to ask why you went there. Like how did you get to Kansas? Because of the immigrants? J: Well, no. Actually, my stepfather was stationed at Fort Leavenworth. He had been in the Air Force. He was an officer So he was stationed at Leavenworth,, which is a college kind of for military. So I think this was the closest place for him. J: And I think Catholic charities, I know it was involved in helping us come up here. And I think that was probably a gateway, the Northeast area, and then the West Side, if you were Latino there were already some families living there when we arrived that had pretty much a similar histories that were immigrants, first generation. J: So I think that's really what it was. J: I do remember I have memories of that playing as a kid. They had swings, we played in the backyard, we played The Beatles was a big thing. I remember that was popular music was a big thing. So we would mimic the songs that we heard. We still couldn't speak English fluently or anything like that. But I can remember one time we're playing and we're using mops literally to mimic guitars and just mouthing the words to “She loves you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.” J: I I'm sure we were horrible. J: But that was kind of the introduction. J: We went into school pretty fairly quickly. I can't recall which cool it was. I think it's not Guardian Angels. There's two parishes down there Sacred Heart, maybe at that time in the West Side. But very quickly, my mother had the sense that she wanted to move from the west side out to the suburbs. And I think that's what she had been working on was saving money so she could buy and they could buy a place, kind of, like, out in the suburbs. So my mother started taking us out of the schools and putting us into different schools. J: I was meeting new friends pretty much all the time. J: I wasn't around the kids that I played with. J: We started going up to Redemptress which was up on 33rd in Broadway. And I remember we used to take the bus, you catch the bus on 35. And it would somehow get us up to where we were going. But then when she moved us to Overland Park, it was 71st and Rigs. The church there would have been Oh, my God. Oh, God. I can't remember the name now. Well, I picture 71st and Metalf, Our Lady of….whatever. J: But so it was 71st and Metcalf so in order to get we started going to school there first before we actually moved there. So we started going to, I think it was Santa Fe Trail, Elementary is where I went. We would take the bus up to 71st Street and then from there, 70 horse Mac walk down to the schools we went to Queen of the Holy Rose. I think that was the church. That was for for some reason, my brother and my sister went to that school, and I went on further down to Santa Fe Trail, Elementary a public school. J: And then within a year, we had moved to that area, so we weren't taking the bus back anymore. It was kind of interesting because years later, I ran into a friend of mine who I knew when we were living in the West Side. And I think this tells you a lot, I think about the way separation works and the way we kind of build narratives around that. J: So when we left the school, I think we went on summer break or something, and then we were gone. We moved. There was, like, no going around and calling all my friends from school or anything like that. He had no accidents. He didn't have, you know, privileges on the phone or anything like that, didn't have cell phone. So I just for a lot of my friends, I just disappeared. He was here, and then when they was gone. J: I ran into this woman, who was a friend of mine back then, who recognized me remembered me by name and approached me and asked me, are you the Jose house that went to the school Redempress and I said, yes, she says, Oh, my God, I thought you were dead. We all thought you were dead. I said: What do you mean? She says, Well, you disappeared. You know, you guys were gone, and the rumor was that you hadn't died. So I imagined that. I mean, it's like this was literally I think when I ran into this woman, I think I was 55. So about 11 years ago. J: So I think that's just to say how the patterns of migration kind of have worked for me. We arrived. Again, we find a familiar that's identifiable. The language is Spanish. The food still has Spanish roots and even food that I recognize from because of the immigrants that lived there with us. There were a lot of people–women that took care of the children who looked out after us and fed us. And so it was not unusual. I mean, the food felt right. J: But the minute we moved to Overland Park, I didn't have that. I didn't have that neighborhood I could walk around to that or the neighbors that would feed us, the food that I was familiar with, and then the language stopped and the music was different–everything culturally boom. I always used the term “Arrested Development” used to be that show that was on because I think that was for me. J: It's like at nine years old, I had a pretty good sense of who I was. I can feel that I could–I kind of had a sense of where I stood in the world. The world that I knew as a nine year old. J: And then we arrived in this country and all of a sudden this movement is different. But there's still a semblance of where I kind of came from. Language was still Spanish. I still spoke it. But the minute we moved to Overland Park, the Spanish even stopped. My mother did not speak us often in Spanish with us made a point. The language started to disappear. Customs…the friendships disappeared. J: I didn't see–I think there was one family that was a very close family with good friends and my mother, so I would see their sons and stuff and their daughters. And over the years, I would stay in contact but never that whole core of the kids that I had played with and grown up with when we first came here. That was one that was developed. J: And then the second was we went to the suburbs. That was a totally different thing that I found new friends. And it was weird because I always felt that's where you start to get this feeling like you were the Other because I remember when we first went to that elementary school, the kids gathering around me. J: Now, it had happened when I went to the school in the West Side. They gathered around my brother and I, they were quizzing us asking us all these questions like, Oh, how do you say this in Spanish, somebody would translate. It was a weird thing. J: But then when we got to Overland Park, I'm by myself. My brother is not around. He's going to another school and these questions are being asked of me and by then, I speak, I understand. So I can translate some things. But sonically, everything is changing. The music is changing; the customs are changing. I don't know anybody. I literally I think–I lost that sense of community where the people next door, they know you so well, you better act right or they're going to tell your mother? I mean, there was that extended family type thing, I get to the suburbs, none of that. J: Hey, it was just an awkwardness, you know: there were not that many kids in the block. We were on the corner house that I recall. So my friends really were the ones that I was making in school. And some of those friends I stayed in contact with all the way through and up to high school. But– M: So were there no–were you the only Latinos when you moved to Overland Park? J: In that area where we were at, it sure felt like that. It totally did. As a matter of fact, I remember my mother had a job. Okay. Which was one of many jobs that she had when she was trying to get to make ends meet. And it was working at a doctor's office. And so sometimes she would drag my brother and I or my sister and make us go with her while she cleaned the night because, you know, there was well we had the community in the West Side that could look after us while my mother was working, we didn't when we moved out to the suburbs. J: We had my mother had friends, but they had to drive to come over. They wasn't like, Oh, go next door. I mean, we never had that kind of thing, or relationship with our neighbors. J: Culturally, most of the friends that we had were the friends that my mother had that could drive to where we were at and there were a lot of new members that actually began to move to the Johnson County. They came I propose, I suppose the migration was these were middle class families in South America. They were not all poor. And they were looking at aspirations to replicate some of that. J: And so they wanted to live where it was safer and that involved a lot of times moving away from community. J: And so the only community that you really had was I was dependent on my mother and her friends, but I was a kid. I was rebellious. My brother and I both were dealing with this idea of not understanding this relationship with mother and son because: that was our grandmother, right? J: And it was interesting because right before the next change took place, my mother–my grandmother came to visit and I was overjoyed, but I was also terrified of my grandmother. She was the disciplinarian par excellence, so she could inspire love and fear equally. But I remember I was old enough to understand that I had disappointed my grandmother tremendously. J: I was not that kid that she could with just one look and make me sit straight. I was now a kid that talked back and I think it broke her heart to see that. She had a miserable time visiting us. She broke her legs. She got stuck here. J: And then I never saw her again. J: And it kind of has impacted me a lot to think of the missed opportunities. But again, I was trying to deal with this authority that I didn't respect because I didn't know it, you know, you don't just walk into somebody's life and say I'm your mother. Boom. And understandably, you know, it led to a lot of problems. J: After my grandmother left, I think my mother realized my brother and I were getting into trouble. And she realized she had to do something. And with the assistance of Catholic charities, again, I remember we were presented with an option. You're going to go to a military school, think Wentworth Academy or something like that was said. J: And my brother and I had just read a book about Father Flanagan's Boys’ Home, we were trying to master our English. We had somebody that was would help us reading and point out, kind of tutor us. And we had read a story about Father Flanagan's Boys Home, and when we were proposed, you know, given the choice. We said, Oh, we want to go to this place. And Catholic Charity helped us get there, and my brother and I were shipped off to Boys Town in Omaha. J: And that was another culture shock because all of a sudden, I had been taken from Colombia, transplanted to a place that kind of mimicked the things we had left except the weather was horribly bad. I could never relate to. But there was community and then we got moved to the suburbs and all of a sudden, no community existed for us. J: Then my brother and I get pulled out and sent to Boys Town. Really the only community we had was our peers, even though there was structure of what do you call it? Was the counselors, there were the teachers. They were the seniors, they were the head of the house where you lived in or the school that you lived in there was these hierarchies. J: We were pretty much living as kids. J: I mean, my peers were the biggest influences on me in terms of the trouble I got into or the trouble I fomented. But I never really had a father figure at all in all of my life. J: What I did have though was great teachers. J: Education became something like really Important to me. I loved reading. I remember my grandmother used to read to me Prince Valiant. I always loved that illustrations in there because it was a beautiful almost like a story a narrative story every chapter. And I was so surprised when I came up here and you actually could see Prince Valiant and English serialized. So that kind of was a nice connection. J: So I had this idea of education as being something that I was not revolted by it. I loved learning. I was very precocious reader, too, and I remember at this point is when one of the biggest influences in my life started to appear, the teachers that I would have. J: I remember Mr. Boston was an English teacher in Boys Town. He had a very strong love for literature, poetry in particular. And I can still remember he was a frail man, frail like just not humongous, you know, I mean, when you were in Boys Town you were always judging yourself physically because, you know, sports was a big defining factor, and you had to defend yourself. J: But he was not that kind of–looked like he could catch you in a fight, you know, it'll be your backup in the fight. But he was very [unknown] I mean, the man, I can always remember him with a book in his had kind of walking around as he's lecturing us and he loved poetry and he introduced me and lost to poetry, and I just I think I fell in love with it. J: So he was a big encouragement for me. J: Particularly as he gave us some writing assignments. J: He loved what I did and we always make it a point to encourage me to do it. And that to me is kind of I remember also there was a school librarian there who, you know, loved the idea that I read. I mean, any kid that reads and goes into a library nowadays, and you've got friends for life. Those librarians, that joy that they have and what they do is just contagious to me. J: So that was where my education really started. I had access to a place where literally nothing was off limits to me. I would go into library shelves and find books. I probably should not have found that I didn't even understand. But in time, they became kind of a refuge. J: So school had it things, there were issues at Boys town. But I remember I did have an aspiration that I wanted to go to Notre Dame. J: My mother grandmother was very religious, Catholic. She had wanted a kid in her African family to be a priest. We had some family members from other lines of the family that were in the Church. So they always had the sense that I was not. I think I was for a moment, and then I grew up. J: But I always was intrigued by the idea of faith in a way, you know, this was a Catholic school. I mean, even though they were very respectful of all the religious traditions. We had Chapel, and you could have any service. It was a non-denominational service, and then there was the Catholic mass that we would go to most of us. J: But I really love that idea that you could have different faiths and they were I don't ever remember proselytizing that said, “Oh, you're Catholic, you know, those people who go to the service, “got to be careful that. J: There was never any kind of understanding. J: There was just this very you know, respectful way of what people have faith and it was never an issue. And I think that's one of the best things that I ever got out of boys stone is that I was never going to judge anybody by their faith or either think that mine was superior or think that theirs was lesser. It was just a matter of I'm going to say convenience, but it's just a matter of custom and culture. J: And I think for me, I excelled in that school, but I wanted to go to Notre Dame. That was one of the things that somehow the Irish [unknown] was a big legend. So and I played sports. So I wanted to go to Notre Dame. J: There was an opportunity that I had my last year I was in Boys Town to go to a summer camp at Notre Dame. And my teachers had encouraged me so my studies to do and apply and I applied and I got accepted. J: And I don't even remember what the thing was going to be. I was going to be there for the summer. J: And so I was so overjoyed. J: I told my My counselor told me to go tell Monsignor blah blah blah, because Monsignor was involved in all the extracurricular activities, and he informed me right then and there, he says, “You can't go.” I said, “Why not?” I couldn't understand. He said, “Well, we had some students that went last year, and they misrepresented themselves. They left a bad reputation, a bad image for the school. So we've decided to suspend the program in exchange for right now.” J: And I was mad. J: Because, you know, you kind of developed the sense of right and wrong. And that seemed to me very wrong to hold something that somebody else had done against me and not even give me the right or the chance to prove that that was an anomaly. That was not me. That was not my character. J: And I was told–I argued. I mean, I think not like screaming argument. I think I tried to use reason because I was being taught reason. But when they said, no, I just was disappointed. J: And I remember I got a chance to come back home that summer to visit family. We would get like leave. And I was not particularly missing my family, but I was missing some friends that I had made connections with when I was going to the elementary school and they started going progressing. And I ran into them and I was angry anyways for what had happened, and I insisted that I wanted to come back home. J: The saddest thing about that is that my brother and I who had been inseparable since we were in Colombia, we got separated because my brother didn't want to come back here. He wanted to stay in Boys Town and I was wanting to come back here. J: So I did and my brother and I went separate ways, probably the biggest tragedy in my life, I think. J: But that kind of led to all these other troubles [chuckles]. J: High school was fun and tough. I mean, I got into a lot of trouble list to say, but I think that's really the foundational story for me is this idea that when you migrate, it never really stops. There's always these kinds of places where you begin to feel like you're getting your footing and always something else must happen, and then something else must happen. And each time you just feel this untethered sense. J: And I remember hearing the expression neither from here nor there. Because from there, you're not accepted because you've left, you've kind of disappeared. You don't even speak the language the right way anymore. And then from here, it's a tenuous thing. This is where you stand. But you know that often you have more questions because the promise of something is not the actual thing that is. J: And for me, that was political–the politics of the time and the era. The end of the 60s were very formative for me. I could see it on television and the [coughs and wipes nose] the excuse me, the assassinations, the Civil Rights. J: And that's where I began to connect things, reading about the struggling of civil rights movements and seeing Mississippi and then remembering that thing about Jackson and my father. That was my first introduction. To revelations to me. J: And a lot of them were questioning. I mean, that led to a lot of questions about what the system is like, what this society is because it promises so much. J: And you know we had to study a little bit of citizenship because we were going to become US citizens, swear the oath. And that's where the kind of dichotomies begin to present themselves. J: So like I remember they canceled the draft. And it was like ’72, I think, when I was presented with this idea that you had to go register. Not necessarily that you were going to be drafted by that point, Vietnam was kind of winding down and the idea of actively recruiting and getting more people in there drafting that was just like American people just weren't going for that anymore. J: But I remember you still have to go register and a lot of my friends weren't registering, and I thought, you know, I was indoctrinated by you, I had to go and swear an oath of allegiance to this country literally to become a citizen and study about the laws and the history. J: So I did that and then the first task that is we have to register. I wouldn't registered. I just thought, well, that's your duty. That's what you do, you know? J: Even having questions about the systems and seeing how things were not working or had to be fought for. J: I just didn't, you know, I just sore. I just swore I would so I wouldn't register and my friends didn't and it didn't mean anything, really, you know. But I thought it was like, my first real understanding of the rights and duties of citizenship to nation fealty. J: And I think in some ways, I passed and failed the test [laughs again]. I signed up, but I think there was a part of me that was questioning whether it was even right to do, but I had just made it sworn so I did it. J: And then I got into trouble in high school. And I got expulsed. My–My inquisitiveness though was always there. I always read. You know, I figured out you can always get a great education. But there was something that bothered me in our family. I think most of us went to school. It was not I think it was in our blood. I mean, you went to higher learning. You studied. There was nothing fearful about that and I loved learning. J: And so here I am working and doing these jobs. But I'm not going to school anymore. J: And then I think the most significant thing that happened in my life happened one summer. I started taking classes at Johnson County Community College, and I was working and I was at Oak Park Mall, if I remember. And a lady called out my name and I turned around. It was Mrs. Brown, she was my high school counselor at Shawnee Mission North. She she had always taken an interest in me. She would see me on the whole. J: She would just stop me and ask me what was going on even though she knew what was going on with me. She always showed care and I would always follow up. And she stopped me and she said, “What are you doing now?” And I told her, “Well, I've started going back to school. I'm taking classes at JuCo” And she said, “You know, you only needed one credit to graduate. You could have graduated your junior year.” I was in the college prep program, but I was getting in trouble. I wasn't paying attention. J: And she said, “You could have graduated.” And she asked me what class I was taking, what classes I was taking and at that time, I wanted to be a political science majors. I was taking some government classes. I was taking US National government in history. And she stopped right there, says, “The minute you get done with that class and you get your grade, you send it to me because that's the credit you need to graduate. And if you send it to me, I'll make sure that you get your diploma” J: And I was shocked, honestly. I was totally shocked but I didn't understand why I was so grateful that she said this and realized and kind of, I get a second chance to get my diploma. J: And I do remember that it meant something because when I got kicked out of high school, I wrote a letter to the vice principal at that time. I can't remember the guy's name. It was a two, three page-letter handwritten thing condemning their actions and calling out this idea of, you know, separating us instead of trying to deal with the issues, you know, kind of this Oh, you’re hippies, all this stuff you're discussing blah, blah, blah. I was trying to say I still believed in school spirit and all that, I still follow the football team, I played football stupid stuff. J: But that she remembered me: that she remembered exactly what I needed to, what I needed to graduate astounds me to this day that somebody could care that much, and that I could be so indifferent to it and not realize it affected affects me all the time. J: People who have done random acts of kindness of interest. J: To me, I think the biggest inspirations I have. People have given me so much. I think in Mrs. Brown's Honor, I give back. That's really my only spiritual thing, I think when it comes to the nature of being engaged or involved. J: It's because people in my life have taken opportunities and interestingly enough, they've been librarians and teachers. Those are my heroes. But anyways, when she told me that I finished that semester, got my grades, I sent them to her, and I sent me a letter. I got a letter a few months later that said I got my diploma, but I never opened I think–I still–I know I have it somewhere. J: I've tried to say things, but I just decided I was never going to open the official letter that said that I got my diploma. J: The good thing was that it wasn't needed for me to enroll in college at that time. So it worked out great for me. J: But I think that's really it in terms of I think by this point I'm in my 20s. I take a summer job because I'm really tired of taking out student loans. The job that I get takes me to a law firm where I stayed at for 15 years. J: I don't regret any of it. J: Some would say probably wasted my time. I should have been doing art all a long. That was what I went to school for. J: But at a certain point after 15 years, I just thought that's not really what I want to do. I'm not going to be a lawyer. I'm not a lawyer. I have no interested in that not interested in it at all. But I was drawing and I was writing, and I just said, you know, I'm done I took my retirement that I had built up my 401(k) cashed it in, paid off the lived off the remainder for about three years until I could feel that whatever was coming I was prepared for and that was the career in the arts in some way or other. J: I started working in community, which was just a natural thing I'd already done some of that. J: So that was it. J: That's my formative journey now. J: It's been going through so many different iterations of, you know…I can say I did the corporate thing, not for me. I can say I had the troubled life, not for me. I can say I've lived in different places: that's good. Very rounded experience. J: I made a hell of a lot of mistakes and I've got a lot of opportunities. So I think that's the best part I can say. M: Thank you so much for sharing that. That's a really incredible story. I'm really struck by the emphasis you put on the educators who took an interest in you even long after the fact. And I've gotten that from a couple of interviews from a few interviews, do people who say, the teachers or the librarians or, you know, I had a made such a difference. J: Yeah…a librarian, I may turn on–I mean, really feel my love of poetry because I was reading I can't remember exactly what book, but she noticed it and she says, Oh, have you ever read this? She turned me on to the Cano Monte Cristo, which led to The Three Musketeers. I've read all of the works of Alexandre Dumas. Sure. J: And then she introduced me to Homer, before I even took it in class, I had read the lid and the artist then she told me about the Aeneid. These were all books that I could get there in the public system, right? And they were they weren't like easy readers. These were good books. I did not know many of the words I was reading, but you know what the stories came through. J: And yeah, for me, they were formative in so many ways. J: And then I think this whole spirit of what a library means, right? Is a repository. Knowledge is available to you: just come in, give them a card, they give you the book. Yeah, you'll forget it. They're already forgiving. Hey, just pay a fine, and you can have more books, even while you're paying the fine. J: Very egalitarian. J: It never demands much of me. J: Libraries were the best gift I think that you could have. J: Especially like I've gone to South America and other countries. I've been in some schools where they have little libraries, and they are so bereft of material. And to know the abundance that a library has here, like,-- M: Ummm….I wonder if….I have a couple of follow up questions related to my own interests. And one is, I'm really struck by the fact that you said when you're an immigrant, you never really stop. M: And one of the ideas I've kind of been playing around with is, you know, as you know, I'm really interested in issues of place and how we make places our own. But I'm also interested in if the route metaphorical and literal becomes its own kind of place, like if you're always traveling the route. And I wonder what you think about that? J: Oh, I think it's totally appropriate. It's a good description. I think of the feelings I have is because the root is always looking for a place to sink to establish so it gets the nourishment that it was, but when it's constantly being uprooted, then it realizes what the perfect soils are, right? J: So to me, I mean, I am, I hate the word because it's so tied to one place, American. J: But I am American in the truest sense of America. J: I mean, I know it from its tip to its farest boundary because I still haven't gone to Alaska. But I know it from a long progression and I see most of the states in this country and eventually we'll visit most of the states in the countries in South America. J: But I've always felt–I'll give you the best example. But the first time I went to South America, I had a chance to go to Chile. And we're coming–I'm on a plane. I don't know, you know, the way planes the routes are, I had to take the plane from San Francisco, go to Canada, take Air Canada back or Air France, actually, down to Peru, then down to Argentina. I was going to visit Uncle in Argentina, but I remember–no in Chile when first time I went there–before I visited my uncle. I went to Chile in ’88. And I remember it was earlier than that. J: But I do remember. The one thing I do remember is I'm looking out the window. We're coming out over the ocean and we hit the Peruvian Coast. And immediately, I had this incredible feeling. I mean, I can't even describe it, but it's like all of a sudden, I felt this vibration, like I was where I was supposed to be. J: I totally–As I looked at these houses that lined along the beach because you're coming off the ocean. And you see the structures, and you see the houses and the inner courtyard, and then you see the back and then the other house that's usually for the staff or the help that is there. J: I recognized the house that grew immediately. I, Oh, my God that reminds me of the house in Colombia, that reminds me of my aunt's house. And the minute I felt that I felt this incredible surge of emotion. J: I could I could tell my blood pressure was just increasing, my heart was beating fast. I'm sweating. And in my head, I'm hearing and seeing. I'm hearing music. I'm seeing colors and I'm tasting food I've not eaten. Since the West Side, literally. J: There was just this rush of incredible sensory overload and that just like a crime. And I made sure nobody could see me. I was like hugging that window. J: And because I think I understood at that point I was coming home, you know what I mean? Even though I was not going to Colombia, I was culturally in a home that I had never left. And that feeling, you know, it's weird. J: I have felt that feeling when I've been in rural areas in other countries that are not the main cities. I was in Crete one time and we were driving around the mountains going from village to village. And I remember just having this sense of the topography of the people, the things that happened in rural areas immediately I recognize among I'm just feeling these incredible sensory experiences, and I've always felt those. J: I felt them here [in the U.S.]. J: First time I went to Oregon and Washington State, being in rural communities, feeling kind of like, it's just a different vibe, you know, culturally, too, right? But I think I'm being more perceptive or reactive to those differences that exist between an urban and a rural things kind of where the roots belong. J: But yeah, no, I totally believe that the roots are very much tangible things. They're always looking to plant. I mean, if we look at a plant, taking from its natural environment. If the roots are still there, they're going to look for a place to land. J: And so yeah, I think that's the journey of an immigrant. I have always felt like my roots are malleable. They can they can find nourishment wherever they can land. J: And I think that's the gift of being an immigrant. J: But it's also the vein because you realize you do live multicultures, and sometimes that's kind of a schizophrenic way to live [chuckles]. M: I sometimes wonder if, you know, and I guess it depends on particular immigrant experiences, but it seems like sometimes immigrants just live en route. Like they're always en route [laughs]. J: Yeah. Like coming and going and trying to find a place to sink in? M: Yeah. Yeah. This kind of relates or the memory that you described of flying over Peru relates to my second question, which is, I don't know how many Colombians there are in Kansas City, but I imagine that there are other–that you're outnumbered, as I am as a Cuban by other Latino groups. J: Yeah. M: Did you find like–Can you talk about that a little bit? Was it hard to make community with Latinos from other countries or Did you feel that there was really something in common? J: It's a difficult question only in the sense that it just brings up a dichotomy. J: So I remember we were all lumped as being Mexican. So it was, you're Mexican. You're Mexican. We're Mexican. And I remember I remember distinctly one point, getting so fricking mad I yelled at offend and said, “I am not f***ing Mexican; I am Colombian.” J: And it really bothered me that I was so angry about the way I put it out. And I thought to myself, I've been so far removed from Colombia, it probably happened in my early 20s, and I said the way with which I said it or kind of put aside this notion would be Mexican. J: I thought why was that so angry? Is it so bad to be Mexican and I realized that there was kind of a racial component to my reaction. J: My mother used to, you know, bless her heart, but she did have this kind of superiority that she looked down on other people. I mean, Mexicans, you know, middle class up just, you know, have to acknowledge that. J: But yeah, I felt a very distinct–you know, I had to have a separation that people understood. Especially when there weren't the town of Mex–Colombians that I knew, but I was always constantly around mexicanos. I was living close to the West Side. J: I worked on the West Side after a while. I've had a lot of interactions on the west side. So yeah, my community kind of in Mexican. And we started painting murals, we went down to Mexico and painted murals. J: And the interesting thing and they don't talk about much, but I had a DNA test. And to kind of filter these things out. Only to find out that I'm 10% Mexican [long chuckle]. You know, 60% of someone indigenous Latin American, Colombian, Peruvian and 10% Mexican. I'm going, how the hell that, you know. J: I remember when we were painting murals, a friend of mine down there because we went down there three times. He said, you're an honorary Mexican. I can now say, Well, you know, by DNA. I guess I am. J: But that's kind of like the joke is on me. J: You know what I mean? Kind of. This notion that you can separate distinctly by what's national as opposed to what's cultural. J: And so no, It's been a long process, and I know a lot of immigrants that deal with that, you know, they very much want to honor where they came from. And sometimes it sounds like you're being dismissive of the others, you know, you within your own. J: And I've seen it too with like how African Americans sometimes can look down on very black Africans, Africans, you know. J: But I've also seen it too within my own community, you know, the darker you are, depending on, you know, then there's the same trajectories, the same misconceptions. M: So yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. This was such a rich interview. You're such a fascinating person and I just love all the forms of art and community work that you've done. M: I have never been to Columbia, but I'm going to Bogotá in June. J: Be prepared. It's enchanting as hell, but it's depressing as not. J: I mean, I had not been back. I think I told you I went earlier this year was the first time I've been back since I left. And everything felt exactly the same way it was and everything felt exactly like different than what it was. M: [nods in agreement]. J: You know, this country. But yeah, it's beautiful, but the poverty and the corruption, they're just there. You should see it but it's a beautiful country. M: It's painful to go back to Cuba, too, for some of those reasons. J: Yeah. Yeah. M: Anyway, this was just such a pleasure. Thank you so much for agreeing to both my interviews. J: No problem. Thank you. M: I will send you the links when you're up on the website so that you can take a look. J: All right. Well, thank you so much. M: Thanks, José. Have a great holiday. J: You too. M: Bye bye. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource José Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Colombia to Kansas City, Kansas Description An account of the resource José Faus is a celebrated Latino poet, writer, and muralist originally from Bucaramanga, Colombia. In this interview, he shares what it means to be an immigrant, his various interactions with several Latino and non-Latino communities, and stories about some of the wonderful educators and librarians who supported and encouraged him as a person and artist/creative. Lastly, he also speaks about what it means to make a place your own. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_xtzm7fal" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_xtzm7fal/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland_José TRIMMED"></iframe> Colombia Discrimination Education Identity Kansas City Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Josef Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Michocan, Mexico to Wichita, Kansas Description An account of the resource Josef was born in Michoacán, Mexico to a Mexican father and a mother with Spanish and indigenous heritage. He was married in St. John, Kansas. He worked on the railroad through sweltering summers and freezing winters. Josef received two degrees from Wichita State University and went on to become an educator and principal in the Wichita area. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Aron Muci Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource middle of the 1900s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Wichita, Kansas Community Education Mexico Wichita Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Aron Muci Language of Interview English Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Josef Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data audio Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Josef Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Mexico to Wichita, KS Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Early 1900s, 1930s-50s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_rmoyqzsg" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_rmoyqzsg/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Josef TRIMMED"></iframe> Description An account of the resource Josef’s father was from Michoacán, Mexico and his mother, of Mexican heritage, was from Lyons, Kansas. Josef, a Korean War veteran, remembers the importance of education and became an educator and principal in Wichita, KS. In this oral history, you can listen to him speak about his humble origins from the railroad tracks to the office. Community Education Identity Mexico Wichita Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lourdes Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from El Salvador to Lawrence, Kansas. Description An account of the resource Lourdes is a filmmaker based in New York. She is bilingual due to her mother’s efforts to teach Lourdes as well as her younger brother and sister Spanish. She reflects on being Latina in Kansas and how several individuals have had difficulties pronouncing her name. She found learning about the American interventions in countries like El Salvador to be shocking. When asked about what the older Latino generation should know, she says that there should be less secrecy and that it is important to share stories in order to preserve histories. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Marta Caminero-Santangelo Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Mother immigrated in the late 1990s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Community Education El Salvador Identity Language Lawrence Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Joohye Oh Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Luis Format Video, audio only, text only Video City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Santiago de Veraguas, Panama Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Lawrence, Kansas Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Luis (L) Joohye (J) L: My name is Luis Sanchez. I'm a Panamanian student from Panama, Santiago de Veraguas, Panama. L: I came to the United States for the first time ever. That was 15 years old. I was in high school in Panama and they won a scholarship to–for an Intensive English Program in Northwest Missouri State University, which I stayed for two months. L: That's pretty much of a bubble when I went over there in the sense that everything was provided, you know, like very like our interaction was…not manipulated. That's a strong word, was controlled or when did we go out? We went out. L: I was 15 years old. So I guess it's understandable. L: Then I went back to Panama with a pretty clear sort of impression of what life in an academic environment looked like. L: For the next years of my life, up until I was 22, I stayed in Panama when finished my finish high school. And I got my undergraduate degree from the University of Panama. And then when I finished that, I was working in a call center and I got this opportunity to come to Emporia State University, in Emporia, Kansas to be a GTA, a graduate teaching assistant for the composition department, for the English department, sorry, in the compensation program. L: So I decided to go ahead and do that. It was pretty rough. That opportunity was a great opportunity and I am pretty grateful and, you know, like all the things that I experienced or valuable, however, it was very difficult to go through it financially speaking. L: Emotionally speaking, it was a little bit of a roller coaster, but I was already in that–already, that kinda person in that point in my life in which I was very open to changes. L: I guess I was raised with this mentality of just take whatever opportunity you can No. Just kidding. But yeah. I was raised with that mentality was like take whatever opportunity you can–carpe diem. Abroad, study abroad. I'll just go for it. That's why I went, but I wasn't really thinking everything that it meant. L: It meant living on a minimum wage salary because that's what they paid me at that time. In here in Kansas, it was like $7.25 an hour and 20 hours max. So what was making? I was very, very tight budget. L: But I did that for two years until I graduated The English with an English MA. Ironically, all the classes that I took over there [at Emporia State] were related to Latin America. Well, most of them, not all of them. Of course, you have to take your rhetoric classes during history of English classes and all that. L: Because up until that point, I thought that I just really wanted to do English literature. I want it. I liked literature, I like reading books. I liked the discipline and I wanted to know more. And English gave me that sort of leeway, that door that I could begin doing that. I said I can do that over there and just getting my degree, but by the end of my master's program and I'm Boys State University, I had all these classes that had to do with Spanish Literature. In a way, I mean, look, look, look. I was looking at them through the lens of this English studies or English literature sort of thing, so to speak. L: So, you know, I had a very good mentor. Her name was Rachel Espalding at Emporia State shia helped me a lot. She got it in yellow and she gave me a lot of advice on what to do and not to do. And I remember her saying that after I was done with my masters, she was like, “Hey, if you don't know what you wanna do, why don't you stay here and you teach Spanish for a year? And then we'll see what happens after that.” L: And the idea of teaching Spanish at that point was a little bit like weird for me because I had been studying English over time. And teaching my own language wasn't something that I had like seriously considered or had done before in my life. L: So I went ahead and thought about it and decided, you know what, I'm gonna do it and I have a lot of momentum, so to speak, in my life right now. And I'm gonna go with it and see where it takes me. L: So I taught Spanish for a whole year after I [graduated?] with my MA in Emporia State. And then in order to be able to do that, because I was an international student, I enrolled in a class that has something sort of like related to teaching. And that was TESOL, which was teaching is teaching digital English as a second language. The problem was that the TESOL program at ESU as a completely online. As an international student, that's not something that's allowed. You have to take face-to-face classes. One thing one way that we did to go about it was that I was also enrolled in this program for IDT, instructional design and technology. That was face-to-face. I was getting a certificate and IDT taken face-to-face classes on that while I was taking all the online classes for the TESOL program while I was teaching Spanish simultaneously. L: So I was doing that. I did that for a year. L: The problem was that just teaching Spanish just wasn't doing the trick for me. I was still missing the literature reviews, reading the novels, analyzing them, or reading nonfiction. L: And I love doing that. L: And I was like, I'm a little bit not doing what I wanted to do. L: So I was like maybe I can start applying for a PhD programs. And this is when again, my mentor told me is like the best way I think I could start it you can do since the market right now for jobs after you graduate is pretty tight is to try to diversify and use that Spanish background that you have. So you can be in the position you want. And she said, I think a masters or a PhD in Spanish literature would really do the trick for you because since you are interested in, in literature is you're just switching the language, but you're still basically going to be doing the same. And you can focus in on those papers that you've written for us in the last years that were in Central America, Central American literature in the Boom. And it's part of, it's part of it all. L: And I was like, sure, that sounds like a good idea. L: So I applied okay, use It's very important to department Spanish and Portuguese PhD program that year. And it was a little bit it was a bit weird because I ended up being accepted into their masters program instead of their PhD. L: So I was upset, but in hindsight, it was it was for the best. It was necessary. That's how we needed to happen. I just I just needed to trust what was going on in that moment. L: But in the moment I was upset. I remember that was like No, and I was planned blah, blah, blah. But anyway, I entered KU’s department of Spanish and Portuguese masters program in 2019. Oh, actually, sorry. Fall 2018. If I'm not wrong, I could be wrong about that one. L: Then I started doing my masters there. I really liked it. I think I was in a place where I was doing what I want it. I studied very hard. I made friends there and got to know the professors and it was great. L: And it was a lot better than, you know, financially than than I was when I was an ESU because the feeling that was the most recurring for me was of this being pinned to the wall. Sort of like a sort of like a like a rag doll or something like that where you are like leaning against the wall and then there's little pins that don't let you move and there's like little things that you can do. And that's how I felt a lot of times when I was at ESU. L: Not really because the people there, because I met wonderful people there. But it was mostly because of the situation. I was making. I wasn't making enough money because as an international student, I couldn't work outside campus. There were very limited options I had; my parents couldn't send me much money or any money at all because they just don't make them. What do you want to compare two here. Compared to here. L: And so I was, there were many times in which I seriously considered going back to Panama. And I was, I was lucky and fortunate enough that I met people that were willing to help me and that went outside of their way to help me do that thing, do this thing. L: So I cannot say that I did that just by myself. I had a lot of people helping me. L: There were a lot of times in which if somebody hadn't intervened, I wouldn't have been able to do it. L: So my experience is not like, Oh, I just went and did this thing, everybody else can do it. That's that I feel like such a fake to say that because not–that would be assuming that everyone's going to have my same luck. L: You need both things: You need your luck and your preparation. L: Both things to be able to do it. And that is I think the most of your current feeling that I had, at least during my time in Emporia, I came to KU and that decreased a lot, I would say. But I was still feeling pin for different reasons. L: I think mostly because just here, I feel like this country is a lot different than Panama in terms of health care. Obviously, that is one of the things that worried me the most and one of the reasons for why every time my mom asked me, “Are you planning to stay and get a job over there?” I always answers like, “I don't know if it's” because I don't yeah, it's great and it makes a lot more money than I would probably ever make in Panama. L: But I don't I'm afraid that one day I will have an accident and then I'll, you know, financially screwed forever because fricking health, health care is just not good enough. L: One of the things that really worries me is how fragile. The whole thing is. How I'm just basically going on the momentum of things just hopping from one opportunity to the next one. And then the moment that something goes wrong, there's very little contingency that that can happen. I can say that now I have built a little bit more of a pillow for it. If anything ever happens. L: That's like in the great scheme of things, it's not much. L: And I can't imagine why, like newer generations of students or people that are just beginning to do this are going through because it's only going to refer. L: Here. I wasn't part of the story I was telling was that I was at KU. Do my master's. I finished it. I finished my masters in Chapter two years of completing it, and then I applied to do the PhD program here so I can continue working on what I wanted to work. L: And here's what I am. And my third semester of my PhD program, it's been a little bit over six years. And in the United States, I left San Diego to work in and poorest state. L: That is more or less made journey the United States has been in a lot of decision-making, having to be super flexible, not letting stress completely overwhelm you because that's not as a survival strategies like just letting stress just numbs your mind and you can't just think clear. L: And that's something that I had to I had to deal with but, but deal with, but stress was still there nonetheless. L: I can talk about this very particular time. Just very good example of one time I was super stressed when I was in Emporia. I had to leave my apartment because my roommate and I were having a lot of disagreements and I had to live it and I didn't have enough money for a deposit for a new apartment. L: And I can only afford an apartment that was under $300 a month. That's as much as they could afford on my paycheck on that considering all the discounts they did and all the fees that I had to pay the university. L: So for whatever reason. Somebody let me stay in their apartment for like two-three months. But even after that, I was also going trying to say the least, this extra little room there, but for whatever reason, I ended up finding this apartment that was under $300. And it was like a very small studio apartment. And asked what I was going to decide that this is where I'm going to live for the semester. L: However, I had everything set up until they said that the deposit was twice the amount of rent and you'd have to pay this this and this. And I just simply didn't have that kind of money. It was like $500. And I remember one of my friends said she asked “What's up? What's the matter? What what's happening?” And I said “I'm seriously considering just not finished my masters here and just go back to Panama with the little money I have. Buy a plane ticket, and just go back to Panama tomorrow night. And that's because I cannot afford an apartment.” L: It's kinda like playing checkmate and that is just playing chess and there's just no more moves, like absolutely no more moves. And then she said, “I'll write you a check, you'll pay me back whenever you have it.” And she let me borrow $500. Now I was like thank you very much. I didn't have any words. I was like, okay, this is, this is one thing that's happening. L: And I really appreciate it. Appreciate it in unfortunately, that person and I are not really talking anymore other than other things that have nothing to do with it. L: But I really appreciated her her gesture and she helped me and that's that's a big part of the reason for why I'm still here today. Because I found people in the way that we're willing to help another person. L: And then that's one example of one time that I just felt like super, super like I don't I don't think this is going to work out and not because it has nothing to do with my will to work. L: It wasn't because I was being lazy, wasn't because I wasn't being focused enough or it wasn't because I wasn't working hard enough–it was entirely and absolutely because the rules of the game, how everything was set up, there were just no more moves, so it's no more possible options for me to be able to stay in the United States in that, in that fashion. L: So that's one thing that happened where I felt like this was just not meant for me to happen. I was just lucky that somebody helped and stepped in. L: And then I lived in that apartment for I think it was a little bit over a year, year-and-a-half. L: The reason for why I ended up leaving, because the landlord did not respect the rules of my contract. And they tried to kick me out a month before. L: Yeah. L: They tried to kick me out amongst a whole month before my apartment under the claim that they said that they didn't have a payment for my rent, which I had receipts and everything. L: So they proceeded to throw all my stuff away out of the apartment and keep them in this little room, but they threw a lot of it away. And when I protested and I said, “Here's the receipt” and it's like, okay, we were in the wrong and I was like, “Okay, now I want you to pay back for the match rates and those stuff.” And they basically said, we're not going to pay for something old. Something–appear as if it was new, since it was old, they didn't want to pay it at all. L: And I had I had to go to the Emporia small claims court. I had to talk to a lot of people. It was very stressful, but it was one of those times where I just felt like the world wanted to just mess mess me over, screw me over essentially. L: After like three months of talking to them and going to small claims court, I got some money back and some replacement. L: It wasn't really much compared to really the damages, but I didn't know what I was doing. L: I had never sued anyone because that's basically what I ended up doing. I didn't know how much money to ask or anything. L: But it was [exhales] it was very stressful and a horrible situation that I don't wish on anybody. L: Yeah, That is a good example as though when I felt like there's not very many options for me. There's not very many things I can do to just keep moving forward, you know. L: So yeah. L: And then luckily after that…After after that happened with my landlord and the awful experience of essentially being wrongfully–it's called wrongful eviction, wrongfully evicted. I lived with my with my girlfriend for a month. L: And then I will put a month. I think it was a little bit over that until they completely moved over to Lawrence because I started my program at the Department of Spanish and Portuguese. L: So that's basically two examples that I can give when the times where things it was the darkest hour, I guess, where I honestly didn't know what I was gonna do and then know what I was going to live. Didn't know what the heck was going to happen. If I didn't, I was like, Oh my gosh, if I didn't know these people, there wasn't somebody that I that I can say, “Hey, can I stay over at your–at your house for the night?” L: What would have happened? L: You know, and–and I know I'm sure that people would say it's the Lord's or some religious explanation. I myself, I'm not a very religious person. L: But I can say that it's, it's pretty messed up that you want to excuse, that you would try to excuse a system from its failures by saying like, Oh, this is some, how we're supposed to happen. L: So I found a lot of people in my life that would tell me, try to tell me that and it would particularly annoyed me to hear that “no, this is not how it's supposed to happen.” This happened because the lack of consideration for for for people that don't make that much money. L: I don't know…There's been many instances in which I feel like there are institutions, there are situations, at least here in the United States and this part, part of Kansas that literally prey on the poor. L: They judge one people to be poor and those are the ones that people like the most vulnerable. L: And like like my fricking landlord that they thought I wasn't going to do anything because I was an international student. As I'm not gonna pay your things new because they were old. L: That's that's expecting me to just be like, okay, you know, humble down and back down. And I was like No, no, no. L: So that was my first, That was my first year as an important and I'm just saying the bad things to make some sort of statement. L: But at the same time, I also met a lot of great people, people that were willing to work at. Again, people that helped me, people that consider that I was in a very vulnerable situation in my life. And that's mostly what I am grateful. I am grateful that I may make awesome connections. J: And I don't just study them because of what they did for me. But because I was able to learn a lot from them. L: So yeah. L: I don't know if there's anything else that you would like me to do. J: I really appreciate your specific examples. And yes, that's exactly what we're looking for in the way he told her story was absolutely perfect. J: And also, I'm curious, would you be willing to share some more positive, brighter, specific examples from your life in contrast to the ones you share? L: Well, as I said, the fact that somebody let me say that when when I needed the most, it was something that I thought was like, I don't think that many people back in Panama would do this for me. L: But I can tell you one quick, that sort of set set the mood for everything that was to come. L: The first night that I arrived in Kansas City and MCI on the airport, there was a pandemic. There's a Panamanian teacher, professor at ESU, that it was the one who helped me with everything and set everything up. He was my point of contact and everything right. L: I was supposed to stay the night with in his sleep on his couch for the night and then he was going to help me find an apartment and a blah blah blah and for whatever reason that didn't happen as planned. L: He I think he would he got to basically doing things that he got that night, but he was just picking up his phone. And I was very worried. I didn't know what I was going to sleep. I didn't know a single soul in this part [of Kansas]. L: It was three in the morning. It was cold and it was dark. And I didn't recognize. Because it's my first day in the United States after, you know, ever since I was 15, as I said before, that that was very I was very worried. L: But anyway, so I was about to stay the night at a hotel. That's what it was going to do. I was like, Okay, he's not picking up. It's almost three in the morning. And I need to sleep; I've been traveling all day. L: And tomorrow. I mean, saying they actually mean in the morning, I need to be somewhere for the orientation. It was like I had to be there at nine in the morning, so I was just going to sleep for a few hours and then pack up my stuff. L: And I was I was looking for hotels and I was looking for a place. And then somebody came to me, somebody from Emporia from the, I think it was like local church members that would volunteer to help or greet international students. And he was helping me call the hotels or the more like the cheapest possible option. L: And then I remember he said he said, “I want you to hang up that phone. And just would you mind sleeping in my couch?” And I was like, “Yeah, that would really help me. That would really help me because all I need us to sleep for a few hours, getting my stuff and then go to the introduction.” L: And then that's why what I did. I slept in his couch and I was very grateful that he did that. And then I spent the rest of the day–the rest of the day. Next morning, I guess, walking around campus with suitcase on my hand, going to the workshops with my suitcases and my hands and trying to get a hold of the professor that was supposed to help me. L: And until the very end of the day, it was like at 7 P.M. when he finally answered and it was like, Dude, where have you been? L: I remember I remember that. I remember that his kindness that his name was Karen foresight. His kindness not only set the tone for what was to come, like, how my ears, we're going to be like, yeah, this is gonna be harsh and you're going to need people to help you. L: It was like you also have to be more flexible and be ready. Be ready that sometimes things have just not going to go the way you think they're gonna go. L: That was, that was like, uh, you could, you could think of it as like a negative moment, but you can also think of it as a positive in the sense that as a stranger that just helped me out and as the reason for why it's a big part of part of the reasons for why I'm here. L: Because somebody came and helped me. L: Another good thing is that I can call, I can, I can mention at the top of my head is the-the professors. The professors that I met at ESU. They were great. They were passionate about what they did. They lamented the fact that the university wasn’t paying me enough. They lamented the fact that I wasn't such a tough situation and they just tried to help me. L: I don't think that I would have become as passionate and interested in. I feel that I'm doing right now in getting at PhD, if I hadn't met the professors that I met in Emporia and the professors that are made here at KU, they served us as a model. L: And and I just I don't know. I think that before I came to the United States, I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life or what I wanted it to look like. L: And I've been able to sort of like mold my thinking. Not just really like who I am, but like my, my thinking how, how do I want to approach life? L: I like the fact that now I can be like, What do I want my life to look like in five years? Why do I want my life to look like in a few months? Do I want to be in a situation that looks like this? L: That has been just invaluable. And that is the most positive thing that I have from this journey. L: It's been this experience that has helped me grow and it has helped me become a different person that I don't think my parents or my sisters or any of my relatives would recognize, you know, I don't think I'm the same person that left the airport at that so much time ago. L: Yeah. L: Does that answer the question? J: Yes, it does. J: And you did touch on this end. I was wondering if you mentioned having it was important to you that you grew up with with sort of like an open-mind or like that mentality, you know, like let's take these chances. And also you stressed how it was really important to be flexible in a lot of your situations. J: Is there anything else you'd like to add on for just general advice or wisdom reflecting back on your journey or everything you've learned? L: Well–I'm not entirely sure that I would call that open mind. I mean, yeah, it sounds like it and I can see why it is, but it's more like… L: Okay, okay, how about this? L: It is very common, I think, the idea that the idea here in the United States that if you live with your parents, that turns–tends to not have a very positive connotation. It tends to be more like, oh, you're a loser type of thing, right? L: And that's usually because your parents or parents here, generationally speaking, they tend to have a lot more money than their children, right? That's fair. L: Not all the cases. This a generalization obviously. I'm just talking in big, big ideas. And obviously there are things that are there like that you need to consider like race, ethnicity, and all these cases. L: But I'm just making a generalization here. To make a point. L: However, I feel like in Hispanic countries, especially in Panama, the idea is not so much to leave your parents. Like this sociality of success is not so much to leave your parents–it is more to get a job so you can help sustain the family. L: And even if you still live with them, the sign is it's okay to live–to live with your parents. What's not okay is to live off your parents. L: And so when I say like, oh, I was raised with this idea to go get it to go live the country with the idea of trying to improve, try to get the best education you can. L: So you can make money to help the family to get out of this sort of like generational–I don’t want to call it poverty–but because I didn't really live in extreme poverty, I lived, I didn't, I wasn't rich–my family was middle-class, but I wasn't. L: I cannot compare myself to a lot of my friends that were poor. L: So that's what I mean when I say this: Go, go do it. L: It's, it's more like go make some money, go get educated because this is going to, this is going to be only good for your family, you know? L: But there's a lot of things about it that are not open mind, you know? It's a traditional mentality in essence. And that's not open mind: It's just “do this so you can help your family.” L: You can help your mom. L: I remember that when I came here my thought and it still is though it hasn't changed as much, but it was more predominant. And everything I did was I'm gonna go to the United States, is I’m going to get a degree, come back to Panama and get a job. And then I'm going to buy my mom everything she wants. L: I remember that was–that was my thought. I want to buy my mother everything she wants because she does a lot of things that we've always wanted to do and I'm going to take her on trips. L: We’re going to buy her…and be her awesome son and all that. But that's not necessarily open-mind. That is, I want to stress that out. L: That is not necessarily to have an open mind because there's a lot of biases. There's a lot of things that come around with it. L: Like for instance, let me think if I can think of an example of [pause]... L: I, I think that the idea that education by itself, like getting a degree by itself, will get you out of poverty. It's not necessarily true. You know, there's, there's things that you need to get. You need different skills. You need to know people. You need to make friends with everyone, not just with the people that agree with you. L: I think with the–with the years and with experience and with meeting all these people, I became more open-minded. L: And that is something that I can, I can say. L: But it wasn't necessarily just because I wanted to go get it. L: I think it was just something that was passed along as a survival strategy from maybe people that have been a lot. I mean, disadvantaged. So does that make sense? They have been in rougher situations than I have and it can, it has been a survival strategy. L: And then again, that is not necessarily because of an open-mind. L: That's just because you need to be adaptable. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Luis Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Panama to Lawrence, Kansas Description An account of the resource Luis came to Kansas from Santiago de Veraguas, Panama. Due to limited opportunities in Panama, he arrived in Kansas to pursue a Masters degree at Emporia State University. However, things were not always so positive: when he first arrived at the Kansas City International airport, the individual that promised to pick him up never showed up. Despite the challenges, he persevered through numerous obstacles and ultimately decided to pursue a Ph.D. at the University of Kansas. Today, he continues his research and studies while teaching students Spanish. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Language A language of the resource English Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_ukm3i0i4" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_ukm3i0i4/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Luis"></iframe> Community Education Identity Language Lawrence Pananma Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Joohye Oh Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Maria Format Video, audio only, text only Video City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Mexico Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Wichita, Kansas Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Maria Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Wichita, Kansas Description An account of the resource Maria is a detective within the Domestic Violence/ Sex Crimes unit of the Wichita Police Department. She came to the United States as a young child and attended elementary through college within Kansas. In this interview, Maria reflects on her identity as a first generation individual and someone of Hispanic heritage. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Parents immigrated in the late 1900s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Wichita, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_mgos7f4q" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_mgos7f4q/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Maria"></iframe> Community Education Identity Language Mexico Wichita Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Martha Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Video City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Durango, Mexico Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Dodge City, Kansas Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Martha (M) Marta (C) M: [My father] was–had already been in the States for a year. M: My aunts and my uncles had moved to Wichita. They had a pretty decent beef packing plant and job and so they felt they could help him out. So he did come illegally to the US just because we didn't have a future. I mean, he didn't have a future in Mexico. He just can find work. He'd go and sometimes he'd come back right away because he didn't have he didn't have work. So he finally just told my mom I can't do this. You don't need to provide. And so he ended up coming, but he did send for us a year later. M: And he had paid somebody to bring us over. Obviously. He passed around a lot and made sure he talked to families that he had crossed over. She was really nervous about for children and his wife, putting a trust and somebody to bring his family. So he ended up getting somebody he thought he could trust it cross us over. And so that's kinda what we did. M: My my mom left everything as it was in our little home. It was just a one bedroom one room for everything home. And so we just had the clothes we had on our bags. That's all we traveled with. And there are four men, four children, my mom and a 16-year-old girl. And the guy bringing this over, that crossed. M: And so we ended up, like I said, in Wichita and get the taste of my new life right away. I felt like I fell in love with everything about which taught that it was a beautiful place. And most importantly, we were–we were with my dad M: And so school–we came in closer Labor Day and school started. I absolutely fell in love with school. M: My teacher, I think had everything and anything to do with my success at the start of my new life in school here in the US. She took a very special interest in me and my family. She ended up pretty much adopting all of us. She was a single. She was single. She was a nun for 30 years, then ended up in public education. And she was strict. Obviously, she was a nun before, but she was definitely–not was but is definitely the reason why I am in education now. M: She made me fall in love with education. She taught us all the hidden rules of this country and all the new things that I was exposed to that I know nobody else would have taken the time to. M: She exposed us to our first library visit–public library visit. She showed us exactly what to do so that my mom could then take us. And we didn't live so far away from there that–it wasn't so hidden. I mean, it wasn't so far that my mom was unable to learn the ropes of okay. This is what you do in a public library. This is how you check books out, you know, but she [the former nun] taught us that. M: She also exposed me to your family. It isn't just cut your hair. You actually go to a hairdresser. She took me–she probably saw my hair. Have wondered who I'm probably going to give this girl a haircut or whatever, or somebody gave her a haircut. So she exposed me to that. M: She exposed–exposed us to this to movie theaters. She took me to my first play ever–was Sleeping Beauty. My first time to a restaurant, Dairy Queen,..My first dictionary that I ever had. M: My dad's friend on the weekends used to play guitar for us and he saw that I showed interest in their guitar. And she he gave me his guitar because he was leaving and my teacher took it so that somebody could fix it and get it ready for me because she thought that it was necessary for me to have something that was of value and she didn't have to do those things. M: But so there's other things that she did teach me, hidden rules about how to act in public and what Hispanic children do that might not be so prevalent and unlike the American culture. And so she was Hispanic herself, but she'd been here forever. So she really took interests in our family and just teaching us different things so that we were successful in the US. M: So she was part of my life until we moved to Dodge City. M: And just back then, you didn't have text messages or, you know. Phones, that cell phones. So we slowly started losing the connection. But I wish that I would have done more to let her know how wonderful she was. M: So yeah, we just we came to Dodge City after five years in Wichita–the reason being was that the beef packing plant, my dad work that they asked him to transfer to Dodge [City] because they were closing there is and since he had not missed one day of work in five years, they told him that, we know you're not legally here, but you're a good employee and we will hire you on the spot in Dodge City and we’ll even pay you $500 cash in your first month's rent. M: So my dad took the offer. He didn't bring us right away because we have school. So he waited until we finished school, which was only about a month and a half. He was in Dodge City in April. M: And so we moved to Dodge, which was a huge shock. It was a big difference from the area where I was going to school in Wichita which was the north side, which was predominantly Hispanic and African-American. M: When I moved to Dodge I had a huge exposure to people that were not like me, which was mainly white people. M: And so I had to, I felt like I had to re-learn a lot about the American culture that–not the American culture I was used to seeing, but a whole different being. M: There was nobody in school that looked like me as far as teachers are role models. There were some kids, were Hispanic, but none of them like–I longed to see somebody that was also born in Mexico like I was, and I didn't see that. M: So there's a lot of things that I did to not cause attention, which now I'm like, I wish somebody would have guided me. M: For example, like in my social studies classroom, are Tea Tree use to recognize those that were doing very well in her class, she would have you stand and give you a ranking like Martha Reeves had a 97, has a 97% in the class. Well, I noticed that it was me and a few other kids that were very, I guess, the well-known, rich kids. And she said, you know, if the top ones will end up coming to my house for a party and I have a pool and I'm like, Okay, Number one, I don't know how to swim; two, my parents would never buy me a bathing suit; and, three, I don't I don't even know how to get there. M: So I purposefully went down in some [of the] assignments because I didn't want to be called like she did. And so just I guess this dumb stuff that you as a kid or really kind of analyzing in your head. And I just shut myself from the top of the class to not have so much attention drawn upon me. M: But of course, you know, my parents were immigrants, so my dad didn’t finish second grade, my mom didn't finish fourth-grade. M: So there's a lot of navigating that I had to do for them because I was the oldest. And so there are a lot of things that I did for the family since I was very young. M: I do remember as early as third grade, maybe even possibly second, where I would go in and take care of paying the bills. I had my little envelopes and would go in and do the transactions myself. Obviously, somebody would drive me there. My dad would drive me or an uncle, but I would do–I would get down and get those done. I would go pay the rent. M: So the exposure to that was just that was a common thing that I had to do. Translating papers at vino would come in, I would have to do that. Then it got a little bigger to–opening a checking account and making sure that I balanced the checkbook and buying our first car, negotiating about that. M: And then I–when I was 13, we bought my dad actually found an abandoned home that somebody was selling it very cheap, like $3 thousand, which is unheard of, but my dad was just looking for a way to not pay rent. And obviously with six kids at the time, he just wasn't able to provide a lot of for us. M: So this house, my dad just said, hey, there's this house. I need you to find out what we could do to purchase it. I didn't–I had no clue how somebody had mentioned that downtown and dodge, there is somebody that could help and they pinpointed where the business was. So it was like a county title place. M: So I went and I'm sure they were shocked to see a 13-year-old kid saying, Hey, well, we want to buy a house and this is what's going on. Can you help me? And so yeah, the lady walked us through the entire thing. Obviously, it took about a month to go through all the paperwork and things, but I felt pretty proud that I was able to negotiate those things that pretty much adults do, but I had to do it because my parents counted on me to do it. M: Just everything. I was a first for a lot, so my siblings kinda had a count on me and we were in charge of our own education because my parents just trusted us that we would do the right thing. Did all of us follow that, possibly not all of us, but I feel as the oldest I had a responsibility. M: And so when I didn't understand that I was not legal here until I knew that we were illegal, but I didn't know the extent of how it was going to affect me until I started high school. M: I didn't know what I was gonna do past high school, but I knew that high school–that just getting my diploma was not going to be the end. I just–I had bigger dreams, I guess. I didn't know how he's gonna get there. I didn't even know what college was about. M: But I remember that they did like a Hispanic day at K-State and they selected some Hispanic kids from the high-school to go. And I was one of them. And it just gave me a whole different perspective about life after high school, but I still didn't not know two things: I didn't know how to get there; and I didn't know what you did there. M: But I couldn't ask anybody because of my [indistinguishable] people know. M: So a few close friends at the bike. So how did you fill out your application for college? And they're like, No, my parents did. So I'm like, Oh man, who's going to help me? M: So I remember there was a meeting for parents for financial aid and I told my parents about it and they're like, Well, you know, go ahead and go and see what they tell you. What are we going to do? We don't understand anything. You have been pretty much doing everything on your own. So just go Listen. M: So I went by myself. No parents know students were there–it was just for parents. So I didn't give anybody eye contact. I just went with my notebook. And I just listened and took notes and kind of stumbled my way through community college, which was here and Dodge because I really didn't know what else to do. And at the time I felt like marketing was probably going to be something that I would get into just because everybody told me you're bilingual, you should go into business, etc. M: So kind of listening to some people, but I was the first to graduate from high school in both sides of my family. Nobody had ever done that. Which was a big accomplishment to them because, you know, I mean, I think I had a few aunts who graduated sixth grade and that's it, Like nobody else. M: And I was the oldest on my mom's side of the family, which were the ones that were here in the US. Mostly my dad's, we're still in Mexico. M: So most of the time in Mexico, even today, sixth grade is basically if you don't go after that, but unless you have money. M: So I kinda had a little secret. Actually, it was a big secret when I graduated, I knew that I was pregnant. And that was a big, huge burden that I carried for a little bit because they were so excited about me getting my diploma and just doing something with my life. And then I have this hidden thing that I was carrying a child and only two people knew. M: I knew and my now husband at the time, he was my boyfriend, we knew that we were going to be parents. We had seeked help. Both of us decided to go to what was called Birthright, I believe, and for advice. M: And so they were very, very good to us and just kinda helping us try to figure things out and navigate this humongous thing that we were encountering. M: But long story short, I just kept pushing forward. I took 21 credit hours when I was pregnant and I got straight A's and I just kept going after that. I mean, not as strongly as, you know, when I didn't have a child, but I just kept pushing forward and got my associates and then obviously then my bachelor's degree. M: By that time, I had my second child when I was teaching already. And then I decided to get my master's degree and they–through K-State–hey had a specific cohort. M: They were doing academies, and so I was part of a leadership group for five years through case date, I went every summer. And so a lot of the negotiation and trying to figure out this cohort and academy to come to Dodge. M: And we finally made it a reality. We were the first academy ever offered in Dodge City to get a master's degree, which I feel like I led that somewhat because I was so desperate to get something here based on just higher education. M: But long story short, I've been co-liaison, which means that I help teach some of those classes here. M: This is, I believe, our fourth or fifth Academy where I take part and I collaborate with the professors and they let me teach some parts of it. M: And now I'm working on my doctorate. I started about a year-and-a-half ago. I still have a long way to go, but I feel like everything is possible and people say like, I have why do you do that like is unnecessary for you too, to get your doctorate and I'm like, you know, I've always been I always feel like you can do anything you put your mind to and I'm not doing it for anything, but just because I feel like that's what I want to do. M: Next summer. I'll have my–I'll be eligible for my license to be a superintendent. Do I want to be a superintendent? Not right now I don't. But I always feel like it's not about luck that you get things. It's about being prepared. M: So who knows, you know, five years from now if something would come up, I just want to be prepared. M: So I feel like through both of my parents, my dad being such a hard worker, he worked the beef packing plant for 37 years. He got tons of awards for not missing work for being just very, very true to his job and just being a hard worker and a person that people counted on. He taught us a lot in that aspect. M: Yeah. My mom, she was a silent, silent parent for a lot of times because she didn't drive, she didn't speak English, but she still made it to all of our conferences. She still was the one that was the connection to the school. And she's seeking a lot of help at times from teachers, from counselors, whatever. When she found that there were difficulties raising teenagers, which, you know, how that goes. And then she had so many of us right in a row. M: So but I feel like my family had a lot of success in Kansas because not just my parents, but also our community. We had in Wichita, Hoover kids. M: We had so many people helping us, whether it's from church or the recreation in the city, people, the police. I mean, we had, so, I have so many stories of how wonderful the community was to us. And I felt like that was a big turning point. M: For example, we were brand new newcomers to the country, and it was Christmas time. I believe I was in third grade at the time, but the police came. It was Christmas day and a police officer, his car was out there and he knocked and we were all in shock. Of course, my parents had with the kids because we just tried to stay completely out of their radar. M: And I opened the door because I was the one that spoke English and he just asked if this was the Reece residence and I said yes, and he said, Well, I have something for you guys, I have gifts. So I told my siblings, of course everybody went running except for my parents are still behind, but somebody must have asked us at that time what we wanted for Christmas and they actually got us some really nice gifts. So when the officer was leaving my little sister at the time, she said I want to be a police officer just like them. M: And she actually is–she's a detective for the Wichita Police Department and she never deviated from that path. And I felt like even though she was young, that was a humongous turning point for her to know that people do things and people from the community did embrace who we were. M: And I don't know, there are so many amazing stories about people that touched our lives, but I feel like six kids. All of us have some type of degree. Obviously, right now, I'm the high school principal at Dodge City high school. And my first year I've been in administration for a long time, but first-time are at the high-school level and I have a sister that does professional development for security along the coast of Florida, and then my brothers an electrician, my sister, like I stated, she's a detective for the police department in Wichita and then I have my next sister. She is second to the youngest, and she has her own salon here in Dodge City and she's very successful salon. I think this is gonna be her 15th year as a salon owner. And then my youngest sister, she is a broker. She has her own real estate company, ReMax. M: And so I feel like as immigrant children, truly our whole entire lives, we have lived in Kansas. Kansas has been a blessing to us. We didn't understand the degree of what happens when you become an immigrant when you leave your own country. But I feel like the gifts that were given to us, we really took advantage and in a blessing way, not, not in a bad way. M: But I do remember coming back to Dodge City after we were legalized because we were–we were able to be legalized through the amnesty act that Ronald Reagan signed in 1986. We were coming back from Wichita after they told us that we were residents and we were driving home, making so many plans with our lives because we now have the ticket to be able to live without fear of being deported, enabled to go to school, meaning college, being able to do the things that American people do, except the voting piece at that time. M: But, um, it was a trip that I will never forget because we just felt like we had so much power to do so many great things. And my dad, he just had this big smile because he just kept–he kept here. And all of us talk about all the things that we're going to do and it's just an amazing, amazing experience. M: But when people–when you did the pledge of allegiance or you do you any opening of any sporting event or whatever it may be. I really feel the words that we have to say when we do the pledge or when we sing. Because it's–it's very significant for me. M: I don't forget where I come from. I think it's important to know and to always remember and always pay tribute to where you come from. But–but also know where your home is. And we feel that Kansas is our home. It's been our home. M: I'm 51 now, so I've never left Kansas and never plan to leave Kansas. It is just part of who we are. It's because of people in this state, but that's basically just–my story in a nutshell. I mean, if I can go in detail into some other aspects, but I feel like that's basically just a brief summary of what we've encountered in as an immigrant family in Kansas. C: So that's an amazing story. Thank you so much for sharing your story. It's really, really powerful on so many levels. C: I wrote down some questions is I was going along. You do not need to answer them if you don't want to. But these are just some things that occurred to me. C: You mentioned when you got to Dodge City that maybe there were some Latinas are some HispaniC, but there was no one who looked, who you thought was like you from your situation. C: Did that change later? Were there more? M: Yes. So the beef packing plant in that time was called Excel, now called Cargill, but that's when these jobs opened up. So within the 10-year timespan that we were here, the minority majority flipped. C: Wow. M: It was significant. But at the time when we got here, it was–everybody knew everybody. I mean, you still to some degree do but not really because it's grown. I meant everybody knows everybody within the Hispanic community, like you knew. M: Oh, so you live on because everybody lived in the same area. The church was the hub of the–Catholic Church was the hub of that area. M: So we would go to church, 150 people or whatever. It was. Not a lot. We just felt the closeness, but then it just started getting too full. And then it turned to various masses and then that was too–not enough. So then they moved it to the Parish center. And then from the Parish center. Then they–they made this humongous church that wasn't even close to our neighborhood anymore they seated now a thousand people, So just kinda just yeah, it just progressed. C: So. When did that sense of like, as you were growing up, did that change your or did that affect in any way your sense of your relation to Dodge City? C: Or I guess it was this was was this this was Wichita? M: Dodge City by then. Yeah. No. It was a blessing in disguise that we ended up in Dodge. Later on, we realized through our family that was done in Wichita that the area where we grew up, it became big. It really truly began to be infested with gangs. And it was all the kids. We knew the area that very same block that we lived in. M: We have an uncle that lives there and we lived next door and then a lot of neighborhood kids were around there. We were the not–we weren't the troublemakers, but we were the louder kids. We were the ones that were always outside. And there is a family who–their children went to a Catholic school and they hardly ever got to play with us. Well, they were the main guys in the gang now and we were floored–we were like, what would have happened to us? Who would've stayed? Because– C: Oh, my God… M: Literally was infested. Yeah. C: And do you have any sense of the source of the gangs or where did that come from? M: I think that when you, when you grow up literally truly living two cultures, you began a huge almost like a separation because you go home and you live a specific life that your friends have no clue about. And so if there's a, there's a piece missing, you tend to go to the side where you are getting what you want, your craving. M: And so I feel like my parents saw that a lot of the people that were working at the meat, beef packing plants or where the job was dominating. So for example, a lot of my friends at that time, their parents both worked at the plant, which one worked at night and one worked during the day. M: So they didn't see one of the parents or they didn't see both parents. So my mom and dad made a commitment that my mom would not work. Even though there were six kids. Just because my dad's like, we need stability in the home and he busted it for many years, but we knew we went to bed at a certain time. My mom made sure that she did her part as a mother to make sure we had food to eat. We were clean. We–all those things that mothers that work still do but it's just it was a different time back then you know. M: So I feel like there was–me and I'm not saying that some of my siblings didn't want to turn that direction. Obviously, your teenagers and you're looking for rebellious things, but it thank goodness that it didn't stick. C: Are you still close to the entire family? M: Yes, we are extremely close. M: My dad once said just recently, he said, If one of you is in pain, the rest of you hurt, which is true. M: We are very, very, very close family. I love my siblings or my friends, but you know, that's we hang out with each other and we're such a big family that we can do that. And to some degree, my dad raised us where the home is just for the families. So we really didn't have friends that came over and friends that were part of our lives, but we were not–we didn't go to their homes a lot. They came to ours. And it was just kinda like that even though we were had we had a 400 square foot home for six kids, mom and dad, but we still have friends stay the night. We still had we still had kids at crave to be in our house. M: And I look at things differently. You know, we had a friend who was white. She had an underground pool at her house. She lived–she lived with us like she was always at our house and we're like, you have your own room. But she–she was the only child. And so when she came over and my mom my mom and dad acted like she was their kid. So she just really gravitated towards our family. M: And so I understand now, but back then I'm like, I didn't get it. Yeah, it was quite a few of our friends, like my best friend, her dad was an alcoholic and she spent her time with us. My parents understood. My dad and my mom paid extra attention to her because she needed it–she need that love. That's the family I don't know. C: Yes, it's the family connections and ties. The luxuries that. C: My daughter, when she was growing up, had a friend who I don't know this for a fact, but I strongly suspect that the friends family was undocumented and the friend was not ever allowed to sleep at our house. And so we that's how we were there. But the friend was not allowed to sleep. M: It's very common in the Hispanic community. I really don't understand why, but that was a big bright and that's why we only went over before– C: If you–if you're in a potentially insecure position, you don't want to send your kid to another place? Very scary. M: Yeah. I remember we were at Shelton park in Wichita and something happened. I don't know if a little girl got ran over or something happened, but the police–it was just packed with police while we were at the park is my dad always took us in the afternoons and we played basketball or we did something, but I remember the police just try coming out from everywhere. M: My dad grabbed us and we ran the opposite way, took the long way home and left the truck there. We didn't go pick up the truck till late at night because we wanted to stay under the radar as much as possible. C: Yeah. So here are some other questions I wrote down. You didn't say much about whether you remembered coming over? M: Yes, I do. I–I mean, I remember my mom and dad talking at night and my mom was crying because my dad's like, hey, yeah, we gotta go. I have to go. There's no other option and she's like, you know, how many men leave and then just leave their women and find somebody else over there and they thought that the children were asleep, but I heard everything. M: It was hard because my dad is very like–we have the same love language. So it's a lot of hugs, a lot of “I love yous” a lot of physical touch like we just–he just loves that way and we did too, So we missed that. We missed him a lot. M: And my mom said that I did go through depression because it was just hard–it was hard for me as a wife. But the kids suffered. So when he asked for us to–when he got all the arrangements for us to come. I mean, I do remember traveling on the bus, getting to the border, Juárez. M: It was a whole different world because Juárez is crazy. I mean–I this the first time I saw first transvestite and we just stared at mom's like, you guys can't stare, you know, we just we're here. We're going to stay at a hotel to hear what we have to do. M: So a guy that night, he kinda told us what was going to happen. The next morning, we met up at a park, and that's when we met all the people that we're gonna go with us. C: You said you were the oldest. How many were there? M: There's four of us. Four of us, four men. And then my mom, a 16-year-old and the coyote. M: So when we got to the actual river, they had some deal that said, you know, if you–if we honk twice, you know, getting the water, if they gave us the clues. So the men already headed arrange for they're going to take each of us, each guide to each kids [sic], which I honestly think it was just like a God thing because how did four men end up with four kids. I don't know. M: But so anyway, we were–I remember one of them had me and he was just going through the water and I turned back and I saw my mom and the water was up to here–to her [Martha points to her neck] and she was walking with the 16-year-old and we just started screaming. M: I started screaming first. Siblings are screaming bloody murder because we were going to lose my mom, you know, and so the guys are really nice there. He was reassuring me. He was as soon as I put you down, I'm gonna go get your mom. M: And I look now and I'm like, you know, here are for men with four little ones in the back for a big long trip like we didn't know them but it turned out there turned out to be good people, you know, it's just we're all on a mission for the same thing, but but yeah, it was a very long trip. M: And I just remember we couldn't get down. But we did go up, pull up. What's–what's now Sonic, but I didn't know what it was at the time. And just you push a button, somebody comes in rollerskates with your food. I like, you know, like–like the hamburger had red stuff like this is gross but we still try to do. M: But even now, when I tell, sometimes I tell my–my kids, my students that stories and I say even now, I have to, I have to take a whiff of the bag of Sonic because it takes me back to that day. You know what? M: The other day I had a really, really, really hard day at work. It was a Friday, August 27th. Because it [was] terrifically time-consuming and a hard day of my new job because we had threats and social media got–it was chaos in here. M: And at the end of the day, my husband, he's like–don't cook. Like let's, you know, let's just go get some food somewhere. I'm like, I do not want anybody to see me. I don't want to be out in public because it ended up being such a horrible thing. And it's [Dodge City] a small community. M: So he's just let's just go to Sonic. You know, and I–we sat in the parking lot and The smell took me back like, you know what? Look where you are now. Like don't I don't know. It just it's a constant reminder to me just because it's the smell just takes me back to that little girl. M: And I, and I'm blessed and I shouldn't be complaining about a difficult day like you learn from it, move on and do things differently. M: But yeah, it just there's little things that always reminds me of honestly like if you don't progress in this country is because you don't want to. It's there, It's there for you to do something with your life in so many different things are offered to you that you can–you can accomplish whatever you want to accomplish. C: That's so powerful and I'm so–I'm so impressed that you tell your students that story. C: Do you think your students identify? M: I do because our schools is 80% Hispanic and I'm very passionate about recruiting teachers. M: So we have a teacher cadet class in high school. And before I came here, this is my eighth year that I come talk to the kids. It's my former teacher. I've only had two amazing teachers was my second grade teacher and my high-school teacher, Mr. Maple, who's still here. M: So I give a speech to his class and so he asked me this year to come in. You're here now, so just come come early. And so I went a few weeks ago to talk to them and I do want them to know my story because it's very similar to their stories. M: So I want them to understand that you can accomplish no matter what obstacles are in front of you, you still have to push forward. M: I remember being pregnant and showing up to college and here's all these young girls and guys partying it up. And but I felt no shame, honestly, I just needed to do what I needed to do. M: Even now, like my doctorate, I feel like there's so many people that are extremely brilliant in my class. But you know what, I'm going to push through it because it's what I want and it's gonna take me three or four times the longer than some of them because I have to work at it, you know, and so… Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Martha Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Durango, Mexico to Dodge City Description An account of the resource Martha is from Durango, Mexico and is currently the principal of Dodge City High School. In this interview, she talks about her positive experience in school, the closeness of her family, and the importance of connecting to your community. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Durango, Mexico Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1978 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_j5jzjvf7" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_j5jzjvf7/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Martha Trimmed"></iframe> Crossing the Border Culture Differences Education Identity Social and Family Networks