2 10 49 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Joohye Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Diana Location The location of the interview Lawrence, Kansas Language of Interview English City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Bogota, Colombia Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Lawrence, Kansas Intermediate point in journey (1) City/State or Country to which interviewee (or parents/grandparents) traveled before coming to current point of residence Lansing, Michigan Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Diana (D) Joohye (J) D: So we lived there from, oh my God, 2008 until 2012. D: Then we went back to Colombia because my husband had a Fulbright. So we needed to went back. So we were in Colombia for five years. And after that, he decided that he wanted to apply to jobs here in the United States. And I was agreed. D: So first we came here to Lawrence, Kansas for one semester because he was a visiting professor. D: We came here in August 2015 until December the same year. At the end of that period, KU offered him a job. So we went back to Colombia for one year to get ready and have papers and everything. D: And we came for good at the beginning of 2017. D: And he start work as a professor here in KU in the Communication [Studies] Department. And six months later I start here in Spanish and Portuguese Department as a lecturer. That was the beginning. J: Could you explain a little bit more in detail about your first experiences when you talked about your first arrived in Michigan? I bet that it was, there are some things that maybe were shocking or maybe some things that are similar. Maybe there's some things that were like “wow.” Could you explain in detail a little bit more? D: Yeah, of course. D: During that time we didn't have kids. So it was a totally different experience. I didn't speak very good English–I'm still working on that–but during that time my English was very…it wasn't enough. So that was difficult for me. D: But I started studying English every day. And that was incredible [and] helpful because I was immersed in the culture. So I had to speak English every day. So my English improved very fast. D: We really like Michigan. We were–we lived like a student, so it was different. [It was a lifestyle] with a small budget and we had a good group of friends. They're from different parts of Latin America. So our experience there was more like a student here, I think so. D: We–we found that Michigan State was a really diversity [sic] campus. It was–there were people from every part of the world. D: So there was something very different for me because I used to live in Bogota, that is a big city. But there are not a lot of people from other countries. So that was different. D: And what else? And before that, I worked a lot in Bogata. I did my masters, so I was always busy. Then in Michigan, I studied English in the mornings and then I was free. So I had a lot of time in my hands and that was totally different from my life before Michigan. D: And I start to do different things, travel a little bit inside this–Michigan and make friends and to craft and that kind of stuff. D: And of course, we need some food. Because Michigan has, we lived in East Lansing, that is next to Lansing. And we found in Lansing some Latin American markets. So we were able to find some Latin American food there. D: And also in Asian markets, we found some Latin American food or at least food that was similar to our foods. So that was great. D: And I had a lot of time to read. That's something that I love. D: That was like at the beginning and we really fell in love with Michigan. It’s a great, great part of this country. J: Would you also say that there was a strong Latin American community in Michigan? Or how would you describe what or was it mostly like being in University you're talking about because they are university students or was there also presence in the community? D: I'm not sure about the community–the Latin American community in Michigan–MSU had–during that time I'm not sure if there is still have that–they have Latin American group with the students and also professor[s] and staff. D: So when we go there, the Latin American group contact us and they gave us like a basket. With some gifts, some stuff that we were going to use and need, like, for example, pots, and also silverware, blankets. That [type] of stuff. D: That was really amazing because we felt welcomed. D: And immediately we start to to get together with them. They had different activities during the year, like a Halloween or Thanksgiving. Some parties to–to people–people be able to talk and meet. D: So that's why we were able to have a good group of friends from Latin America. We were in the same situation. We were students, or actually we also had some professor that became friends and we had a good group there. J: Would you also like to share, you mentioned that your husband received the Fulbright then you guys then you had the opportunity to go back to Colombia. Would you be able to discuss what that was like after some time in Michigan and then back to Colombia again? D: Yeah. It was very difficult. Because when–before we went back to Colombia, my first kid was born. He was born in Michigan when he was maybe two-months old, we went back. D: We had a totally different situation. We were new parents. We were tired. We were lost. And I think it was more difficult to went back to Colombia then to came to Michigan for the first time. D: It was more because when we came here, we knew that it was temporary. It was an adventure. But in Bogota, it was our real life. We were new parents. So it was difficult for my husband and for me; at the beginning, it was more difficult for me. D: But after, I don't know, maybe six months, seven months, I start to accept the situation, to get used [to it]. And my husband started to feel sad, nostalgic. Because also Bogota is a very big, crazy city. The traffic is terrible. It’s like a big city like New York, Chicago, I don't know. Many people. It is crowded. The transportation is crazy. Sometimes could be insecure [unsafe]. D: And Michigan…Lansing is a small town. Everything is easy. You get very fast to every part of the city. D: So that was like a shock. We knew that Bogata was like that. But we weren't aware that we were going to miss that much–the life that we had in Michigan. J: And then when you came back to Lawrence from that from the Fulbright and then to Lawrence. Would you also be able to describe more specifically that transition? D: Again to the first time when we came here as a visiting professor? J: Yes. D: Okay. I came here. We came here when my second child was two months old also. So that was tough for me. I wanted to came because I knew that it was a good opportunity for him [Diana’s husband]. He was absolutely sad about his job in Bogata. He really wanted to be able to research more and here is easier than in Columbia. D: I was–I wanted to support him and since I had maternity leave, because in Columbia you have paid maternity leave, we decided that it was a good time to came here. So we did. But it was very difficult. We live in an apartment that is part of the KU apartment from visiting professors small apartment, but it was enough. D: But I didn't know anyone. I was with a newborn. He cried a lot. My oldest boy didn't know how to speak English. So when he went to the daycare, he was miserable. He cried a lot. I was very sensitive. I think that hormone because of the postpartum. And my–and my husband was working like crazy because he felt that [he] got that one was an opportunity that he need to to take advantage of. D: I was–I was lonely, lost. I didn't know…It was difficult. I took advantage of be with my baby. But at some point, you need to talk with other adults. That was difficult for me. I don't have a good memories about that time. I like it. Lawernce. Because Lawrence is charming, but I didn't know anyone, so I don't know. J: Did you feel like after some time when you became a lecturer for the Spanish and Portuguese Department, you were able to start to feel more of the connections with other adults? D: Yes! Of course, because we were here as a visiting professor for one semester and then we went back to Colombia for one year. So that year was weird because we knew that we were going to came back again. And I knew that my life here, what's going to be different from the life that I had during those four months when we came here for the first time. D: So I was preparing myself and I knew that I was going to have a job and [a] different experience. D: So during the first six months when we came here for good. It was difficult because I miss my family. I wasn't sure about the day. That was the right decision for us, especially because of family and friends. D: But then I start to see that my husband was happy. My oldest kid start to learn English very fast, very easy. And my youngest one, at that point, was one year-and-a-half. So it was easier. And he start to–to–to go to the daycare as well. D: So I had more time for me and then I started to work. And, yes, that changed everything because I like to be active. I love to be with my family, but also I love to have my own life, my projects, my time. D: So it was good. D: That was a very good change of the dynamic for me. J: Would you be able to explain a little bit more when you said, “I like to have my own life.” Like some of them more in detail, like the projects or activities are the ways that we're able to do that? D: I love reading. I like to read and when you have a babies or kids it is very difficult to find the time to do it. Because at the end of the day, you're so tired that you just want to watch TV or I don't know…So for me it was very important. It is very important to have time, not just after they go to sleep. D: Just like I–in the middle of the day when I when I am awake to do certain stuff like a reading or meditate or just go to a coffee shop and work from there, or maybe have lunch with a friend. Or just watch my own shows, not just Paw Patrol and Peppa Pigs. Or a date with my husband or talk like a long time with my mom or one of my friends from Columbia. D: Or workout. I like to walk. I like to walk by myself sometimes with my family, but I prefer by myself. And it's not, not, not like as something very special, but it's important for me not just be a mom or a professor or a wife. It is more like I like to be able to do wherever I want during certain moments of the day or at least of the week. J: And also you start, you had the opportunity to start as a lecturer in the Spanish and Portuguese. Could you explain what it was first like lecturing and maybe preparing materials and teaching new classes of students and things? D: Okay. I had experience teaching at MSU so I was familiar with the college–I don’t know–contexts. Then in Columbia, I was a teacher in the middle school, so that was very different. D: So when–when I started to work here, I have, of course I was scared because I am an immigrant. That moment in the political context was very difficult in this country. This is still difficult, but at the time was when Trump start to be a president. So we were really scared of that. D: Even…I mean we were legal and everything, but still we didn't know how was going to be living here with that contexts, with that political situation. D: So when I started to work and found like a, maybe because I teach Spanish, usually. Students are more like open-mind. If you want to learn another language, it is because I think so, you know or understand that the world is more than the United States. D: So that was, that was a relief, like to see or to able to feel like the students were, like, nice, respectful, welcome people from different backgrounds. And this [KU’s Department of Spanish and Portuguese] Department of course has different people from different countries. So that was good. D: I did–I had to prepare material, but I had during that time a coordinator that he was very, very helpful and he was ready to help me, to explain me, to guide me. So I felt support. After, I don’t know, two months I was more comfortable. D: It was at the beginning, it was easy, I think so. I was a scared of course, but it was easy. And I felt like I was able to be myself as a teacher like my own mark or whatever. Yeah. J: And also you feel like before were there certain things which made it difficult for you? And you said you were able to be yourself when you started to teach. But before were there things that made it more difficult to be yourself or yourself at some times and not others? D: Can you reframe the question? J: That you are able to be myself as a teacher. And I was wondering with the like the students were open-minded and respectful. Were there other factors that allowed you to be more into yourself in your teaching? D: Okay. Yes, I think so. I had a supervisor but he never tried to [im]pose his view. He was very open to hear my ideas. Very respectful with my methods. I felt like I was able to propose different things to decide. We had to follow some–some maybe no activity, some topics. D: But I was able to decide if I wanted to explain certain topic the more deep or not or, like, I was able to read, my students, took decisions and my supervisor was very respectful with that, and I really appreciate that. That's why I felt like I was able to be myself. D: I had to follow certain stuff, but it didn't feel like I was repeating something that other person did. J: Okay. And this is sort of going back to one of the first things you talked about finding certain particular ingredients in some Latin American markets and also as Asian, Asian, some Asian markets. And I was wondering, is food, your primary way of staying connected with the Colombian culture or reminding you of Bogota? J: Or is it also, do you think there's like a linguistic aspect because you also teach Spanish, so the food and the language. J: And are there also other customs that you practice or that you hope that your family will continue? D: Food is important, of course, I am not the one who cooks at home, it is my husband. I don't like to cook. So he tried to cook a Colombian food. And some of the food that he cooks need like a very common ingredients. D: But of course, I need some food that I can find here. So sometimes–my brother lives in Florida–and there is very easy to find food from Columbia. So sometimes he sends a box with some food that I like it. D: When my mom comes, she also brings some treats on some of the stuff that I like it. So…but it's important, but it's not like essential for me. I'm not crazy about food. It's like not something that I think about it the whole time. But we eat a lot of Colombian food. I mean, the–the dish that my husband prepare, usually are Colombian food D: But other other things that connect with my country, obviously the language. We just speak Spanish at home because we really think that it's important that our kids keep their language. Every year is more difficult of course, because they are growing up and they want to talk English the whole time. And we're really, really, what is the word for that…are really determinate that have to speak Spanish because my mom doesn't speak Spanish. D: My mother-in-law does sorry, English. My mother-in-law doesn't speak English. And also because as a person that learned English when I was an adult, I know how difficult it is. D: I have and I had and I have some students that their parents were from Latin America or something like that and they didn't speak Spanish with them. And now they are learning. They are like, I don't know, understand why my parents never talked to me in Spanish. That is very important. The idioms. The way that we say some stuff. D: My mom comes very, very often. My mother-in-law, too. So that is important for–to keep the contact with our family and our friends. D: And also some traditions. I didn't know. Nothing special but e.g. in December. The seventh of December, in Colombia, that is the day that Christmas starts, like, officially, and you just light on some candles outside your home to celebrate Día de la Virgen [CHECK] Virgin Mary, Virgin Day, something like that. We still do that. It's hard because it's cold here during the day. But we tried to keep doing that. D: And–I don't know–the way that we are trying to to raise our kids. They are kids–they're growing up in a different culture that we did. So we try to to meet so to either know both cultures and that is tough. I mean, I think he's going to be great for them, but sometimes as parents it is hard. J: And are there any other details or examples that you would like to share about your story, your experience before I ask you a final wrap-up question? D: About my traditions? Or about what? J: Just in general about your story so far. D: Okay. Let's see. I don't know. I mean, we have lived here for almost five years. Almost five years. We're happy here. But I think that we never going not to feel as an immigrant. So this is our home now, but you are an immigrant. And I think that we need to make peace with that. Be proud of that. D: We feel, like, privileged because Lawrence in general is a safe open space that welcomes immigrants. But of course, there is always something in the back of your brain that knows that maybe, in some point, maybe there is going to be a person who say something awful in a store, for example when you are talking Spanish with your kids or I don't know. D: For example, when I go to a store and the person is not very polite, I try to think that that person is having a bad day or maybe is that the way that person is? I'm not trying to think immediately that that person is racist because otherwise it's going to be very difficult if you're always are defensive about everything. D: But it's a possibility. And obviously, I'm scared that especially for my kids because they are–they feel like they are Americans but they don't–they don't. And of course sometimes they ask why we don't do certain stuff and my friends do. Why is your pronunciation like that? They try to obviously correct my pronunciation…the whole time. D: Now they understand more that [my accent] is part of me, is part of my English and that it is brave for people who tried to speak another language. And that is totally okay. It's okay to have an accent, wrong pronunciation. D: So we're trying to educate them to see that everyone has the same rights, that they have to be proud of their culture, and that there is no issue to have two different backgrounds. But they realize that it's not easy, but we're trying. J: Actually, you answered my wrap-up question… D: Okay! [laughs]. J: Which the question was: If you had any advice for your children or just like the future generation in general, what would it be? And wow, thank you. D: You're welcome. D: I think that is important–I really like, for example, to read books to my kids from different authors, from different…with different news stories to explain. Maybe fiction, but explain that kind of situation. D: And we try to be very honest with them. These 0s, maybe he's going to, Maybe it is going to happen. You have to be ready. But at the same time, we had been lucky because we have a good group of friends here. We haven't felt anything bad so far. Maybe not very explicit. Maybe some people don't like us, I don't know, but we haven't felt. So yes. D: So my idea is that my kids don't feel bad because they don't have parents who speak perfect English and they accept other cultures. So they–they are in a good elementary school where they have more classmates from different parts of the world. So that is good. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Diana Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Bogota, Colombia to Lawrence, Kansas Description An account of the resource Originally from Colombia, Diana has lived in Lawrence, KS for a number of years. In this interview, she speaks about her experience before moving to Kansas, when she first lived in the welcoming city of Lansing, Michigan. She found Lansing to be “totally different” from Bogota. After staying in Lansing, she went back to Colombia before arriving in Lawrence, Kansas. Diana emphasizes the importance of staying connected to Colombian culture through language. Her message to the younger generation is to respect others. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2010s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_c8osuzon" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_c8osuzon/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Diana Heartland Interview Trimmed"></iframe> Colombia Community Education Language Lawrence Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Diego Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Video City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Mexico Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Lawrence, Kansas Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Diego (D) Marta (M) D: I'm Diego Rivera Rodriguez. Yes. And I am a child of a I guess I'm technically first-generation immigrant. Yeah. So my mom and dad both immigrated here from…my dad technically he was from La Paz, Bolivia, and my mom is from Moscow [?], Mexico. And then they met and I think Mexico City in college. D: And my dad moved to–first to Arizona where he had my older brother. He's older about six years. I'm 19 by the way. Then he had my sister three years later in Stillwater, Oklahoma at OSU. My dad is also a professor of chemistry. He worked throughout those colleges and then they moved to Lawrence, I guess they had me there [in Stillwater] and then moved to Lawrence about a year later, where he worked at KU for a number of years as a professor of chemistry. And my mom was like one of his research assistants, I guess. D: She also did research. She had a–they both got PhDs, which I think is insanely impressive. Just because like being able to..in STEM, too, I mean, maybe that's just not the way my brain works, but they both got that. D: And yeah, so they had me…a little more about them, I guess. They–I think it's just way more competitive. Just way more competitive in general. I think I'm like trying to immigrate here [to the U.S.] your especially…like through school, college. D: Because you have to beat out just way more people to get the same opportunity that the average person here could get. If that makes sense, not saying that it's easy to go to college, It's definitely not because it's very expensive, but I think it's significantly harder trying to get an education in Latin America and Mexico. And the fact that they—once I got that, they were offered positions in the United States, I think also just speaks volumes. D: I have a lot of respect for just the work ethic in general. D: So they had me. I pretty much lived in Lawrence all my life. I grew up here and around the age of five, my mother died of cancer. So I didn't really get to know her very well. Like in-person. Everything everything I learned about her came later. So it was really just me and my siblings and my dad for a while…growing up. And it must have been around the age of seven or eight or when I was eight, I think when I was eight. So like three years later my dad remarried. And he married a super nice lady, my step-mom, Huili Yao. D: And I guess–I'm sorry, I'm just rambling about my story, but yeah–I guess it's like the first time I noticed things were…[reacting to Zoom chat comments] Oh, I’m completely fine. No worries. Notice things where like maybe a little different than like other people's experiences was definitely after my mom died, not having a mother figure. And also just like my dad was extremely busy with work and having to take care of three kids. D: So it left a lot of time for me to try to figure stuff out on my own. Like same with like all my siblings. We kinda had to figure a lot of [expletive] out on our own. Luckily, we did have this lovely lady who came to kinda take care of us when I was like genuinely too young to take care of myself. Her name name is Debbie. She's also from Panama. D: So I guess I had growing up, I had a lot of like Latino, Latinx, just like figures and at least older people. But also like at school there is absolutely… D: [Responding to Zoom chat question] Oh, no. My step-mom is Chinese. She's from Beijing. So that is that was that was a big difference too. But also I think that…I'll get into that later. D: She…I had those kind of figures growing up, but also at the same time. There was no one else in my grade–at my school at least–who was Latin or Hispanic or anything like that…And when there was it was about like fourth or fifth grade and his name is Sebastian. I remember it was a pair of twins named Sam and Sebastian. D: And they were like the first kind of my people, I guess I meant, which I think is like a big thing that I've kind of like realized now is that just like when you don't have people who like you can I like racially identify with, it kinda–definitely makes your own you question your own identity a lot. As I had something, I struggled with a lot. D: You know, obviously, I'm not white. I'm very much brown, but a lot of times I feel like just either because of my interests or, you know, I just—I felt out of place like not a real Mexican. D: [Reacting to Zoom chat comments] Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's actually interesting. That's what I thought too, but he–he's got his own things, I guess. Yeah. D: And the thing is I would I would go back to Mexico during the summers to visit my family there, on my mom's side. And why was there? I'd get really good Spanish again. Because when you're not speaking it, then, you know, kinda gets rusty. But when I would go there and get really good Spanish, and I'd start feeling like kind of more, especially as a kid when I was like eight, seven–around that age. I felt very in place there, if that makes sense. Like I would hang out with the kids on the street and they were just everyone was super nice. D: I remember we'd always just like, you know, like just play in the street like rollerblade or like they're just like all the kids in this little neighborhood where my aunt lives. D: But as I would go there later, I'm like around the age of 12, 13 and then later, like 14, 15, I started to notice that there was definitely, I mean, maybe it was just me being self-conscious, but being there, it's like my Spanish definitely has a bit of an American accent, probably, I bet, or like more. I know. D: And then also just like I would get told a lot that I like, I didn't look like stereotypically Mexican, which is I think it's I mean, I don't f***ing know, people are just weird. But they like it always like to either think I was like Indian or Native American or something like that. D: So I mean, it all just kind of fueled into this like really weird dynamic where I didn't know my racial identity, I didn't know. I just felt like a like a weird fraud. Like I'm not actually Latino. And then like everyone around me is white. And I think, I think a lot of people of color go through this where they have, they, “they want to be white phase.” Which is just sad, I think. And I'm glad I'm over that. I'm glad it didn't last, but I talked to my sister about that. She had it too. D: It's just like–It's a feeling because you don't necessarily belong. And the woman you do belong, but it feels like you don't, you're not like a “real” Latino or “real” Mexican. So it's like you don't want to necessarily like, just completely embrace that side of your culture. D: And then the other side is, you know, where you live and it's like, obviously you don't fit in there. Just like on the surface, like appearance wise…I'm luckily, I never never, I was so blissfully ignorant for the first 13, 14 years, I thought, like people in Lawrence didn't have racial racist tendencies–weren't racist at all. D: But that's just me being stupid as like I literally have people in middle-school just call me like a beaner I'm like, You can't. I mean, like then I was like, Oh, ha ha, he's joking, but obviously that's not that's just stupid f***ing kids. They would–they would always make jokes about something and then I would make jokes about them. Back. I mean, then again, it's not quite the same when it's not racially charged. D: But that's, I mean, that's just growing up in the Midwest and growing up ignorant. D: Then I think I've really started to like, realize that like, oh, people actually care about skin color. I mean, obviously I had known this stuff, but just because I had so many [sic] stuff I've seen on the media and it's like when you don't experience it, when you don't think you're experiencing it firsthand. It's really hard to kind of accept that you–don't you. I mean, like in my head, I didn't want to didn't want to think that like the majority of people who have interacted with, like, may have prejudice against me because of my race. D: And it's a bit different. I think a lot of Latina, Latino people , Latinx people are, or, sorry, a lot of Hispanic people necessarily. And some of the Latino are like white passing, white passing in quotations. I hate that term just because it's like, I don't know. It feels like it's like enforcing some white superiority thing, but I'm obviously not that. D: So when I started to realize, I think when I started really realize, okay, s*** is f***ed up is when my parents moved to Louisiana when I was 16. And I went with them. And immediately, like immediately I noticed, like all of people's prejudice, all of people's like just like inherent racism. D: I don't know if it was ingrained…I mean, it's obviously it was like in my school, which was also way different because it was majority like POC [People of Color] people, BIPOC [Black, Indigenous, People of Color] people. I immediately noticed, like, a, like a, huge, huge difference. And just like everywhere in the city, I would get moved to Baton Rouge, which obviously has a lot of problems, are still has a lot of problems with like police brutality. D: There's just so many, um, yeah. And so like that was going on while I moved there. They're like, I think what had just happened when I moved there was one of the gangs there had just, like, retaliated to the cops and then killed like six of them [the cops]. D: And so it was like straight up a war in the city where I'm just like show up and people are hanging up. Your blue bluer lights are red lights to support either side. D: Just like okay, this is something that's just crazy, but obviously something way different than I had experienced in the Midwest. D: In the Midwest, I feel like most of the stuff that comes out is like passive aggressiveness. Passive aggressive racism, if that makes sense. Microaggressions, that type of thing. D: But I moved there and I realized, oh, I'm getting followed. I'm they followed when I go into stores. You know, people are just like blatantly being like sketched out [colloquial: made uncomfortable] about me because I'm walking around the city or especially in white happy places. D: Like talking to people at school, I would hear they're like their experiences and I'm just like, Oh, okay, make sense. So I kinda have that experience and that definitely changes like my outlook on things. D: And I come back to Lawrence and am I allowed to say, I think I'm allowed to say this. Yeah, I'm going to say unexperienced with the police, which was really f***ed up. D: [Response to Zoom chat comment] Okay. Cool. Yeah. D: So I came back and it was right before I can't right before I was in college and it was the summer and me and my friends were–we were smoking weed, Cool. We're smoking weed on the [Kansas] River and, you know, it was like my friends’ last day. Okay. Come on. We were like, I don't think like I mean, like obviously. D: [Response to Zoom chat comments] Fair enough. Fair enough. D: We were doing it and we, like, went downtown afterwards. We were just spending the day with my friend right before he left. And he was like good and we get out. And this was like four hours later, so [I] was not high and I was driving–we were like, Let's go drive over to my friend's house to say goodbye to my other friend or whatever. I was in the passenger seat. And it was like seven of us. D: So it was me and my white friend who was driving the car. And then there are other people who are in the other car. And he just threw weed under the seat. I mean, obviously not a good idea. And by the way, it wasn't wasn't my weed. And he threw the weed under the seat and he starts—starts driving over there and we're just driving and we get pulled over. We don't know why we got pulled over. D: We just got pulled over. It wasn't like breaking any laws. We asked him [the male police officer] and he's like, You guys have a tagline or something. And I was like, Okay, cool. And he's asking his questions like, you guys drink tonight. I'm in the passenger seat. By the way. D: First, he he knocks on the door or on the window. Rolled down the window. My friend rolls down the window. He sees both of us. Then just walks around to the side I'm on and asked me to roll down the window. And so I rolled down the window and he's just like, “Can I get you guys’ IDs? Do you know why I pulled you over?” and I'm like, “Why is he talking to me?” I'm in the passenger seat belt. But it's like no what's going on? And he was just like you guys had a tag light, has been drinking at all tonight and he hadn't. So we're like “No.” And he's like “You’ve been smoking?” And we're like, No, not right now. Obviously, we're not going to say that we were and he was like, “Okay, I smell it.” And we're like okay. D: Like he's got to search the car. He searches the car and he finds it. And obviously, we have–we have like things [agreed, planned responses]for this, for situations like this where it's like don't Just like don't claim it. Like just don't say it's either of ours. Just just what it'd be like. I don't know if it's like someone left it in there, like a friend when we dropped off. So that's what we say, right. I'm also not my car, just in the backseat. D: And we both say that he questions and I get a ticket for possession. Even though like we both said that it wasn't ours and my friend. And you get a ticket for possession. You got let off with a warning. I got to hit–a ticket with possession. D: And he found a little bag…that was a bag that had had the weed in it. And so he also gave me a ticket for paraphernalia. In Douglas County, the charge for having possession is a dollar–so it's it's easy; for having paraphernalia, which I guess you can kind of a bag as paraphernalia. It's like a $300 ticket. D: So that happened to me. And I kinda realized, I'm not a statistic. What the f***, you know, like actually like what the f***, I don't know. It just seems extremely like why? Like why just me? If it's not my if we bust said, it's not like it's weird. Okay. Whatever. D: So I go to the–I go show up to the [unknown] court and I paid the ticket and I want–I want to go into diversion because I don't want this to be on my record. So diversion is where you complete a second, like you pretty much complete some stuff and then they take it off your record. And you pay a lot of f***ing money because that's what the system is like. D: So I…at this point, this happened right before I went to college. literally a couple of days after I turned 18. And so I am going into college with this [charge/incident] and I'm like, okay, this is I show up to court and they're like, okay, apply for diversion. Do all these like prereq steps: which is get a drug evaluation and take a class or something, or the drug evaluation will tell you what you need to complete in order to complete your diversion. D: I had lots of friends. Lots of friends, mostly white. But who have gotten pulled over for DUIs, having like felony amounts of weed. By the way, we have a couple of grams, like, so it wasn't really a lot. Like Sure. Yeah, sure, straight up [unknown]. Like literally like just like so much worse. Like, I think I don't know. I think driving other than getting a DUI for being like blackout drunk is like, that's ridiculous. D: But they took drug evaluations, which is where a therapist will, a drug therapist, will interview you and ask about your usage of whatever you got in trouble for, right? Then they'll recommend either a super light punishment or I guess it's not called punishment, I guess it's called rehabilitation, or something worse. D: Now, my friend who got the DUI and my friend got a felony, or had a felony amount of weed and his car, they both got it, both got one ten-hour class that they had to do. And by the way, the drug, the drug evaluation cost about a 100 bucks. I'm paying this for this all on my own because I don't want to ask my dad for money because I know he would be very disappointed. And I…I don't know, I just don't wanna do that. So I'm trying to pay for this on my own. D: And I do this–this drug evaluation. And I'm like, I cannot get prescribed more things because everything that they will make you do cost a s*** ton of money. And so they asked me about my drug use. And I–you know, I tell the truth, but also in a way that makes it seem very not, like, bad if that makes sense. Like, I don't use it that often. And like I told her the story that happened, it wasn't my weed. D: So it takes about a week and then she sends a report, which gives me a report… D: Also, am I going too off track? I feel like I did. This is just I feel like this is just an experience that like.. M: No, there's no way to go too off track on the story you want to tell. D: Okay, cool. Yeah. And so I get this evaluation back. And pretty much in her evaluation, she just called me a liar. She just was like he's lying. I'm going to prescribe him drug therapy, which I had to pay for, which is $100 per session, eight hours of drug therapy. So $800. And then a class. And I was like, this is ridiculous. This is. Ridiculous. Like okay. I don't I don't understand what–like why–why–why you're doing this? To me. I don't know. It just felt like I was very much getting picked on. D: Which when I found out later that, hey, there's a little statistic that Latino people get incarcerated way more for minor drug offenses. I was like makes sense, checks out. D: So I don't know that–I thought was like after I moved back to [Lawrence] and I thought point I realized people are racist. I think it really sucks. I mean, obviously it's not getting before it before that and Louisiana, but I was like really like my whole like innocent perspective where maybe you give them the benefit of the doubt. No, it's it's a f***ed-up world and people will do anything. I mean, people would just want to I just want to f*** you up. D: And so I completed all that. Where luckily my drug…it’s funny because my drug therapist who was also Latino…we went into a couple of sessions and he was like, you don't have a problem, do you? And I was like, yeah, no, I don't. And he was like, Oh, okay. Well, then I guess we can cut some of these sessions because like you're passing the drug tests, you're not like we're talking about your use and it doesn't seem problematic. And I was like, Okay, cool. D: This is like straight up rehab. Like you're saying Me too. Like the DCCCA [ Douglas County Citizens Committee on Alcoholism, Inc.] center where people are like, I mean, like I get rehab for like, I don't know if you're addicted to heroin or cocaine or is like the like, weed? Are they really sending me to rehab for smoking weed? Okay. I guess if that's what you think. I mean, I don't know. And then that ended. D: Now I'm going to talk—I guess I'll talk about my experience. I'm starting to like everything that I feel like has happened to me because of being a Latino. So I'm a theater major, theater and film major. And right now. So there's right now there's not a lot of like people and like on, like big media for BIPOC. But they're trying to change that. But that also means that they're tokenizing to a huge degree. D: So like my experience in the [Theatre and Dance] department has been very much just me being a token which feels really bad. But also I was like, maybe I'm at KU. I…I'm just like I'm still getting stuff done and like my professors who are nice are telling me I'm talented. And so it didn't feel that bad. And then my professors who was like a mentor was like “You should get an agent and see what work you can get out in the K..and out in like KC” [Kansas City]. And so I was like, Yeah, I'll do that. D: So I apply. And they interviewed me. And they don't really care about a lot of like my resume stuff which is understandable and they don't really ask him questions. They–they seem to just be very…The woman who was interviewing me was like we don't have anyone your flavor. I bet you can understand what that means and can immediately clear that in the department.. D: I am–I'm just gonna get tokenized for a long time, which just makes it very hard to kind of makes you feel a little bit of impostor syndrome, a little bit of just like my getting things because brown, but obviously, I mean, I am I am literally n But then I, you know, and then you have to deal with the other things about background. I don't know. It's just weird. I'm just really, really fucking weird. D: Yeah. And so that's been my experience at school [the University of Kansas]. Oh, I guess I also–I don't know. I've I've definitely been treated by figures of authority. I don't know if I have to get into another story. But it's pretty much just like I know at this point that like even in high school, like I've been treated by figures of authority like way s***ier because of the color of my skin, which is just a**. D: And it's like, I think especially being in the Midwest where there's not a big community here. It's like I'm getting treated—treated like shit by one side of the community and I'm getting not accepted by the other side of the community. So it's just, I mean, treated by s*** by white people not getting accepted by the other side of the community. So–it's just like–being an immigrant in here, like in the Midwest., sucks. D: I mean, I think it definitely makes people, I think it makes you feel a lot more alone. And like a racial identity sort of way. D: I'm trying to think of like…other…. Yeah, I don't think I need to get into some other stories for just like authority figures treating me. I feel like there's the point is already across. M: You totally can if you want. D: Okay. Yeah. M: You could give one that sticks out to you or something. Don't have to give them all if you don't want, but I've got the time. D: Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I'll just go like a quick rundown on this one. High school, I was pretty well-liked about, like with all my teachers, I wasn't a bad student. I was a little loud, but like my teachers never seemed to have a problem with it. They just, you know, they would joke around with me. D: And one day of spring break, my…I was with my friends and we were playing that one game where you type a sentence on [sic] a story and then the person comes up with the next sentence. And they were just passing my laptop around. And it was logged into my school email. There's a sentence in there that was like “I had a gun.” And it was logged into–on like Google Docs…and the story made no coherent sense. Like it didn't make any sense. But I guess it got flagged because there's the word “gun.” D: And the next day at school or like right after spring break, I show up at school. And the SRO, the school resource officer, the school cop, the one that also by the way, dropped her gun and let it go off in school. But whatever…terrible, terrible person, by the way, she comes into class. And then this other lady who I know one of the administrators really seen them. D: They're like Diego, Can you come with me? And my friends are like, Oh, he's in trouble..[That’s them being] that stupid. And I'm just like, Well, what did I do? I got to know what the f*** I did. Genuinely. I'm like, I didn't do anything, so I don't think I'm in trouble at this point. And I'm just walking. I'd walk out with my backpack and just as soon as we get out the door. D: They pat me down there like any weapons on you? And I'm like, well, it's like now I take my bag and they search it and they are like, okay, we have no weapons on you. They take me…they take me down to the office area, whatever, where they're like the SRO is straight up trying to like…she's interrogating me. And I'm just like, I was just like What do you know why we brought you in? I was like, I gotta be honest, I have no idea what happened. D: And at this point I'm like something's up [going on] because I'm like, they want to ask me if I had a weapon. They pull up the Google Doc and I go, Oh, oh, this is just like a huge misunderstanding. Like this isn't like…that doesn't make any sense. So you can look at it like this just doesn't make sense. Like I obviously this isn't true. You can ask my friends and they’ll vouch [for me]. And they're like, Yeah. Okay. So they just I mean, they don't say that. They like kind of make me feel like s***. Like I'm like I'm not going to shoot up the school. I'm not going to shoot up the f***ing school. D: They take my phone, my laptop, and all my belongings, and then interrogate all my friends. And like pretty much say s***like, by the way, my friend group and high-school was probably like–it was like eight people and half of them were bipolar. So like they said to like those guys, like my brown friends, just like you guys would be the type of kids to pull the s***. D: And I was like, first of all, I didn't know this lady. Well, I knew her as, like, the SRO, but I didn't know or like, I never had met her and we were like, what like who who does she think? She goes like, first of all, no or not? Liked by our teachers. And they realized that I'm telling the truth. And they're like, Okay, you are telling the truth. But the lady was like, we're still going to suspend you. And I was like, why I didn't do anything. D: And so that technically they couldn't really sus…like what can what can they see? What rule did I break? And so that labeled it as misuse of technology. Okay, cool. What my, like, my teacher, I might upset by this. And my teachers, like one of them is like, I'm gonna get you an attorney like you can f***ing sue them. Like this is f***ed up. And it was but I was just, like, tired. I don't know. I ended up not following through with an attorney and just kinda took the suspension for literally no reason. There was no reason for me to spend it. D: But yeah. So just like that's that's the other experience I had with authority figures feel like kinda just–kinda just sucks. M: I told Val [Diego’s older sister] after I interviewed her. But this obviously as a Free State [high school in Lawrence, Kansas] mom, this is horrifying and shocking to me like, this is my kid's school. How is this happening at my kid's school? Yeah. What I told Val is, give me some names. I will track them down. D: So funny because this is the same SRO officer who dropped her van and let it go off in school. M: Oh my God… D: Like first of all, do you need a gun? I mean, whatever, I guess. Yeah. Bring your gun into a high school. It's good. Whatever you think you need to do. I don't know. It's just just so much bulls***. And yeah, I think it's like those those experiences kind of shaped like a bit of anger and resentment towards just like authority figures in general. But also kinda made me realize that dislike, ignorance I had that giving people benefit of the doubt, which is not true. And…stuff. D: Yeah. I guess that's I think that's about all. I didn't really talk much about like my home life, but life is very much it's hard to separate what was going on because it was just like a lot is going on at the time and what was caused by anything. D: But I think also like growing up without a mother figure, it definitely was a hard thing because I think it's ingrained into..into a bit of like masculine. I'm masculine…toxic masculinity. It's also, I think it's slightly in Latino culture, which is something, anything else I had to realize. D: Even like my experience with, I guess this is probably the last thing I'll talk about my experience with, being queer. Bisexual. But I just had a terrible not like a terrible experience. My dad is very open-minded guy, but just like definitely came out not the way I wanted to. I got kinda got outed. But I think like I can tell if it's just because it's old or it's probably a mix of both and toxic masculinity. D: They'll just make, make comments about when I do things slightly more feminine or queer. And definitely it just makes me feel sometimes like just not not good. I guess. I don't know. I think yeah, I think I think that's it. D: And I was also talking to because it's funny is I have another one. I get another queer friend who is also he's Latino. And he kind of says the same thing, like it's like at least on Latino side because it's white, but like there's definitely like some kind of toxic masculine leftover that I think might just be specific to…obviously not just like toxic masculinity is just the Latino men are fathers, but like it's a different type of I feel like there's a word for it. I can't remember though. I don't know. Like a word in… M: Machismo? D: Yeah. Yeah. But that is–that is probably about all I feel like I just… M: How about being queer at Free State? D: Oh, I was not on out. I pretty much the situation was I was very much just questioning for a long time. But I didn't know I was I was experimenting like kind of like a little bit like my senior year of high school. And then as I kind of like stop being so much experimenting and started being like, Oh, okay, this makes more sense. Now, I got out in not the best way. D: [Responding to Zoom chat comment] Yeah. I know. It's–it's okay. I'm over it now. D: But then that kind of for a long time made me feel not like not secure and letting other people know my sexuality. So even now I come across as more of a straight or masculine, I guess. I think that is probably a product of that situation. D: Although, like, I feel like I've been unlearning a lot of those habits recently, just being around more and queer people. So yeah. D: I think my experience was like within Free State really didn't exist because I just–I just ran much kept it a secret. Or like the people who knew were like the people who I was doing stuff with. And I told him I was like, I don't want to come out. Yeah. That makes sense. D: But yeah, that is then like my experience, I guess. Yeah. And it's been my experience. Intermediate point in journey (1) City/State or Country to which interviewee (or parents/grandparents) traveled before coming to current point of residence Arkansas Intermediate point in journey (2) City/State or Country to which interviewee (or parents/grandparents) traveled before coming to current point of residence Stillwater, Oklahoma Intermediate point in journey (3) City/State or Country to which interviewee (or parents/grandparents) traveled before coming to current point of residence Baton Rouge, Louisiana Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Diego Subject The topic of the resource Oral History from Bolivia and Mexico to Lawrence, KS. Description An account of the resource Diego grew up in Lawrence, KS. His father is from Bolivia and his mother is from Mexico. In this interview, Diego reflects on the lack of various Latino role models in his life (especially in school), his sexuality, and navigating his Latino identity. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant La Paz, Bolivia and Mexico. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <br /><iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_6qnf0at8" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_6qnf0at8/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Diego Trimmed"></iframe> Bolivia Culture Differences Discrimination Education Identity Language Lawrence Mexico Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Fernanda Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Video City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Aguascalientes, Mexico and Chiapas, Mexico Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Lawrence, Kansas Transcript Fernanda (F) Marta (M) F: I can go ahead and start. F: This is my story as being the first-generation in Kansas and being the first-generation of kids born in the United States in my family starts with my mom. And I know my mom's side of the story a lot better than I do my dad, but I do want to share both. F: My mom is from Aguascalientes, Mexico, and she is from a neighborhood called Loma Bonita. This was–it's funny to having gone back with my mom and Mexico because the city has expanded a lot. So that used to be the border of the city, which is now a huge metropolitan area that has extended far beyond this neighborhood. F: But at the time that's where she lived and that was central to her story because that was one of the poor neighborhoods in that time of the city. And she grew up there, That's the house they had always lived in. They had built on top of it. F: And my grandpa is a very ingenious guy and just builds and makes whatever he's incredibly smart. Even though he only had nine months of formal education where he learned to read and write. Beyond that, he is completely self-taught. F: And so she was born in that house. And it was five siblings, my grandparents. And she had a lot of ambition. She wanted to go to college, she wanted to have a career in finance, but her family was very poor. F: So when she finished high school, she really didn't have the opportunity to go to college. And I think she was 17 around this time. And seeing that there was no really opportunity for growth for her, she decided to move to the US and this is something that happened pretty spontaneously. F: She says that one of her uncles have come back to visit in Mexico. And she was like, I wanna go with you, take me with you in a matter of a week or two, she was able to get a visa, which was really, really lucky at that time, but she had falsified all her documents, got a visa, and left with one of her cousins to come to the US with that uncle. F: And they ended up in Wichita, Kansas. And she stayed here for a couple of months. And then or it moves maybe a couple of months to a year. F: And then her family had this doesn't really know what caused this or anything, but her aunts lied to her, saying that my grandma was having serious health complications when she wasn't. But my aunts kind of made her rush back to Mexico. So she went back, realized that there was nothing wrong and people just wanted her to come back. As she was obviously very angry about that and immediately tried to come back again, got her visa within a matter of two weeks, which super, super lucky–ended up coming back to the United States and then she'd stayed there, stayed here ever since. F: She was still only 17 or 18 at that time, she got a job, started renting. Eventually, my grandpa came over. They both helped save money to get the rest of the family over and they were all still pretty young. I think my youngest uncle was 14 or 15 and started going into high school in Wichita. F: Then she married my dad. And my dad is from Chiapas, Mexico. And he, similar to my mom, was fleeing poverty and violence in that part of the country. F: So I think his family slowly started to migrate north–living in separate cities until they came to visit one of their uncles in Wichita and just never left after that. F: So that's also an interesting story to me because he [Fernanda’s father] still has not gone back to Mexico since he came maybe 25, 30 years ago. And he has always regretted not having the chance to say goodbye to anyone because it was unplanned. I don't know if his parents had planned it and didn't tell the rest of his family or what had happened, but the kids didn't know that they were moving. They were just going to visit an uncle and they never went back to Mexico. F: But then they [Fernanda’s parents] got married. They met at a Taco Bell, which I've always thought was funny. Working at Taco Bell. F: And then they had me, my brother and my sister and I, the first child, grandchild, cousin, that whole entire side of the family and my dad's side as well. I've only been the oldest and the one to start everything or try everything first. F: And so my whole beginning of my life, my mom and dad have worked so hard to build absolutely everything. I think that the first house that we ever lived in, my mom and dad paid $6,000 for. And then my dad added new bedrooms, new bathrooms, new living rooms, and that's where I lived for most of my life and I loved that house and we just sold it two years ago, which made me really sad. F: But that was–it was a really, really good childhood. We lived in that house and it felt very isolated in–not in a bad way, but in a very comforting way. Because I grew up just almost exclusively Mexican. Because it was just us interacting with my family. We didn't really have a lot of relationships outside of the family. It felt very isolated and safe in that sense. F: Then I went to St. Margaret Mary, which is a private Catholic school. But it's about, it's maybe 70% Mexican, 20% Vietnamese, and the rest is white. So we also grew up very, very interesting. I just felt like home, I just felt very safe. And everyone is really proud of their cultural identity. And everyone speaks Spanish in that school because it's mostly an immigrant community. F: So I feel very privileged to have been able to grow up in that space because I talked to people, a lot of people that I met at KU and they don't have similar stories of where they had to go to school with students that didn't identify or that they didn't identify with. And it is messed up their–their just sense of identity and they had identity crises as young children, which I had never, I never experienced because I was in a room full of other kids that were speaking Spanish and whose moms gossiped after school. F: And it was just a very, very Mexican childhood. F: And I think that's also really interesting for me now because I don't know that I have so much. Because I grew up around just my family and all of these other kids at school that were also first-generation or second-generation immigrants. I somewhat grew up left out of Mexican-American culture, how it has developed in the United States. F: Like I feel more Mexican than I feel Mexican-American, if that makes sense or they're very different. I'm Mexican but I was born in the US, which makes me Mexican-American. But I have them in separate categories. Like sometimes I'm American and sometimes the other times I'm Mexican, but internally, I always feel Mexican. I don't feel that that has developed to where I just go about my day with both of them combined. F: So that that has been interesting, but yes, that was my experience. It was a K through eight school, so elementary school, middle school. We always grew up there. It was a really small school. It was–my graduating class was 13 students. So as a family, it was very, very safe. F: And everyone was just the same. Everyone was the same socioeconomic status. Everyone lived in the same neighborhoods. It was just a great, great environment to grow up in. F: And then I went to Kapaun (Kapaun Mt. Carmel High School), which is the Catholic private high school. And it was completely different from my experience in middle-school because it was an incredibly wealthy school. As soon as people turn 16, they get their brand new Jeep. And even though we wear uniforms, everyone has the newest shoes, the newest jewelry, the newest, everything that gets a very, very, very wealthy school. F: So that was a shocker going into it I think. F: I had people from my middle school that also went to that school. I still–I still felt comfort and I still felt safe. And I–I did a great job adapting to that kind of culture because it was very, very different. F: The first two years were great. I had–I was just having fun. Everyone was nice. And I think I was blissfully unaware of how different each–each of us were. And I think that's a good thing. Right. F: But–but then I think it was my junior year. It was either junior or senior year. I think it was–I don't remember if I graduated in 2018. I can't remember when Trump got elected. Maybe it was 2016. F: But Trump got elected and it's a very conservative school as well. And everyone is very Catholic. And everyone was a “build-a-wall” kind of person like all of the cool, rich kids thought Trump was amazing and still do. F: It's the funniest thing to be in the wealthy East side of Wichita and everyone like adores Trump. It's the weirdest thing. But everyone was huge Trump people and administration supported him because he was also anti-abortion or pro-choice–no, pro-life. F: So not only did he have the endorsement of the students who were–isn't racist and classist. They also had the support of administration because of the Catholic values supposedly. F: And so that was really tough because students started talking about it–started saying, oh, go back to your country like pack your bags, where are your suitcases? And it started being–I mean, Trump essentially made it okay to be racist and discriminate against people openly and made it cool at my school, which was really interesting, like those were the cool people. F: And so that was a weird moment because even though no one had no one ever directed it to my face or directed it to me. I mean, I still took personal offense to it because that's my entire family. And even some of my friends and like is this what you actually think about me and think about everyone that I came from? F: And it's such a personal value. The right to immigrate. And it's made up my whole childhood–and people–I started to almost see the real side of people and what people actually thought of me and how they saw me and valued me. F: So that was the first time that I openly–like my bubble burst and I started to see, how discrimination was hugely, hugely affected every thing I think I was so young and I even had an amazing childhood and a supportive network and parents and people that were unapologetically themselves that I didn't realize that the that we were on the outside, that we were outsiders for most of people that we were around. F: So it was an interesting time in high school. F: And it's also been interesting because there's a lot of different experiences in my family, especially within my three siblings, which is really almost funny to compare because we are three different shades of brown. I'm in the middle, I'm the middle shade. My brother is a lot darker, black hair, big, curly black hair. And my sister is very fair-skinned and very tall and skinny and dainty. F: And just when we were all related, we all look similar, but just on these physical traits–we've all had vastly different experiences. Our high-school and just in different parts of Wichita even growing up, I remember my brother was always the one that got picked on the most and he was always the one where the things about his skin color came up the most. And people openly offended him in high school, just because he was big and tall and browner than us three. F: And this goes for my whole entire family. I have a lot of family that–I have two little cousins that somehow my brown haired and brown eyed uncle and aunt have made these two fair skin, blond, blue, white girls. F: And whenever we go visit people, even in Mexico or anywhere else, they would get so much praise for being so beautiful and so smart and so just so amazing. F: And you can tell it's just because of these physical attributes. So that’s been something that's been really interesting to me and always I've always compared, especially in high school, because my brother, sister and I have always gone to the same high school with the same people, the same families. It's just a generational thing. F: But yeah, my brother is the one that's always gotten the most hate. I'm always very protective of him. Now he defends himself, but yep. So that was high school. F: And then I went to KU. And I remember in admissions and just taking the tours of the schools and the school and reading about this school, there was this huge emphasis on diversity. F: And by this point I'm just so over high school like I want it to be around new people. I was tired of being with all these closed-minded, wealthy, privileged people. And I was excited to get to KU. I know there's a lot of Wichita people that go there, but unlike the campus is big enough, there will be so many new people like I will find my place and it will be away from Kapaun. F: Then I got to KU and it was the same thing. F: It was–I did not see any of the diversity that they have mentioned and admissions pamphlets. I guess it was more diverse than Kapaun but it was–I was in STEM for my first two years. F: There was not a single Hispanic, other Hispanic person, maybe one or two in lecture halls of two to 300 people. Especially as the levels advance. F: So I was in all these spaces. Where still I was not seeing any diversity. F: I didn't feel at home. F: And that was really surprising to me and I was really disappointing to me. When I got to KU and I was staying in the dorms. And it was GSP, which is right next to Corbin, which is where the Greek life people stayed. And then I was standing next to that dorm. And I don't think I met another Hispanic person on my floor. F: And I guess I was used to it at that point. I was just really looking forward to it at KU. F: And then and then I joined CLACS (Center for Latin American and Caribbean Studies) and that was awesome because I found so much support. F: Yeah, I joined CLACs my–or I started taking Kachiquel my second semester, freshman year. F: And that was really cool. Because it was just a whole other–it was just very different people like people that were so passionate about. I would consider it like a very niche thing to be passionate about Latin American indigenous languages. F: And finding these people was a huge game changer for me because they were so passionate. F: And I think growing up. If I allowed myself to be passionate [shaky voice, watery eyes]. F: But there weren't that many options. F: So like [silence…] F: And I guess kinda what I mean by that is like, since I'm the first one in my family to have the opportunity and the privilege to go to school, pursue a career. All of these things. F: I put a lot of pressure on myself [sniffling]. F: And I didn't allow myself to explore very much because I had to be successful in whatever I did. And that's something that's been really hard for me right now because I'm going through med school applications, and especially not getting in last year. F: I just feel like I'm letting my family down [crying], which is not true because they're all incredibly supportive, but we just grew up very poor and [...] that was something that I had always wanted to take my family out of. F: And I don't need to anymore. Like my mom is very successful now. F: We are not in that situation anymore, but I think growing up and seeing that all around me, it was just a personal mission that I was going to make my family better. F: I was going to be the one that–I always looked forward to being 21 because that's when I could apply for or sponsor my parents for citizenship. F: They now got remarried. F: My parents got divorced and my mom got remarried when I was like 15 or 16. So she was able to apply for citizenship a lot earlier. And I remember being so happy for her, but so sad that I couldn't be the one that did that for her. Because I've always just been very protective of my family. F: I remember my mom…English is her second language. I mean, it's mine too, but it's different when you learn in kindergarten than when you learn at 20 years old. So she's always struggled a little bit and been self-conscious about her accent and not really knowing a lot of American pop culture and that being hard to make friends. F: But I still do this and I try not to do it anymore. But whenever she is talking to someone, I will say I'm really close to her and just listen to everything she's saying so that I can help–not correct her–-but like help people understand what she's trying to say, even though she's totally competent now and incredibly smart and she doesn't need my help, but it's something I always grew up doing and I'm very, very protective of my family. F: Right now. I just feel this–these applications are giving me so much anxiety and it's been hard to even talk to my mom because I just wanted to make her proud and I want to be successful. I feel like I'm failing even though I'm not, but a little bit. F: But back to CLACS. CLACS was a really awesome space because it kinda took me back to to who I was almost oh, yes, CLACS is the Center for Latin American Studies, Latin American and Caribbean Studies at the University of Kansas. And I think this whole time, I had never really thought about it. F: I never really questioned what my identity as being Mexican was. I had never because I just looked it. At this point. I mean, throughout middle school and the beginning of high school, I had not gone to Mexico because my mom was undocumented during that time. So I didn't really know what it was like to be Mexican in Mexico. F: So all I do is how is like to be Mexican in the US and I had never really question that. F: Then I got to KU and started taking classes with the Center for Latin American Studies. And it made me really intrigued because it's all of these things on my heritage, the culture, the history, dynamics between Latin America and indigenous peoples and the land. And so many things that hadn't ever thought of. F: And it really made me feel like I had a lot to learn about myself, not only about the area and the space, but just about myself. And then I did–I was able to go to Mexico. And this made me even more curious to learn about that history and social problems in Latin America and how they carry over to the United States. F: And this whole time I've been very interested in health care. So I started reflecting on my experiences in health care with my family, which included translating for my family members at doctor's appointments and trying to help navigate health care and insurance and just this being part of my life. F: But I started to realize it–this part of a huge immigrant communities’ lives and it shouldn't be this hard to receive health care. And there should be more doctors that speak Spanish and there should be more doctors that understand these kinds of problems. And there's not. F: So I kept my studies, research has always been intertwined with health and how all of these issues affect health. And I studied abroad in Guatemala, which was a huge, huge, huge, huge, huge formational experience for me. F: That was the summer after my freshman year, which I'm glad it happened so early because it opened up a lot of doors for me and gave me a lot of curiosity. F: And it made me realize the complexity of my identity and being Mexican in the US and then American in Mexico. And then in Guatemala, being part of non-indigenous community when I was with indigenous people the whole time and the complexities of that. It was just very interesting. F: And I remember there was another, there was an anthropologist, sociologist in that study abroad group. We all actually hate him because he was the worst. F: But he asked me like, Oh, what are you identify as? And I was like, oh, like Mexican and font me for like 30 minutes about why I identified as Mexican and not Mexican American. F: And I had honestly been the first time I had ever. thought about–I had never really just giving it that much thought because it's just I don't know my family. We just call it like–we're just Mexican and I had never thought about the dynamics of that and how that changes based on place. F: But these were all conversations that I had on my study abroad and is huge, huge, huge formational [sic] experience. And I was roommates with a PhD student at the time. She think she just I don't know exactly how it works, but she just defended her thesis, slipping–that makes her a Dr. now. But she was 33 and I was 19 as she was getting her PhD in the Latin American Studies department at UT Austin. F: And she just taught me a lot about what it's like to be a Latin American woman in academia. She even gave me a lot of the vocabulary of just a lot of the things that I was feeling. So that–she has been a really important person in my life. F: And yeah, I–I pursued Latin American Studies for the rest of my academic undergraduate career. And I loved it so much. I loved the people in my class is so different from the STEM people. It just gave me a lot more dimension and knowledge ability of what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to be as a doctor. F: Now, I guess we're at current time. Now I'm kinda seeing all the cousins, everyone that was born here, we're all very, very close. We all grew up in the same neighborhood. It's been really fun to see. Everyone grew up and even all of my aunts, my uncles, parents, grandparents, everyone has–it feels like I've grown up with them because we all started at zero when I was born. And then everyone's slowly become successful and happy. F: Makes me really proud to see my grandparents–I think two years ago, maybe a year ago–they were able to get their citizenship through my mom. They have been saving [money] their whole lives and my mom calls it, everyone's still has a poverty mindset where everything is save, save, save. No one feels, like, totally secure or safe. F: So made me really happy to see my grandparents finally be able to retire and get all the social security that they've been paying for this whole time. F: They moved back to Mexico. I guess they're kinda like seasonally living here and there. But they built the cutest little cabin. This it's called [indistinguishable]. It's an Aguascalientes. And it's like this mountain range because it seems too small to be a mountain, but too big to be a hill. But it just looks like a dead person laying on their back because you can see the outline. F: So they have–my grandpa has had land there for ever. And he was finally able to build a little cabin and they're just so happy and cute living up there. F: And then my mom is doing great, she's very happy. F: She's kinda–she has done one job that has led her to another job that has led her to another job setting. Now she's having a little bit of, uh, prices. She never got to follow her passion because she just had a road that was kinda carved out for her. And now she's doing this job, which is great, but she a little bit hates. So I hope that she is able to find a job that she loves soon. F: My siblings are all now going to college. My cousins are all now going to college and following their pursuits. F: And there's also new generations that are immigrating to the United States. F: I have two little cousins that just moved. And it's been really interesting seeing their experiences and seeing them start their families and almost seeing them start where everyone else in my family started just starting over and it's really hard, but at least know–I know that they have us that we're a support system. We've figured it out and we're going to help other people. F: But yeah, that's kind of a combination of me and my family's–a little bit of my family's immigration story. F: There's so many things that randomly come up that no one has. I've talked to my mom about this before, but about her story specifically. But no one else in my–I haven't talked to other people in my family and it's just funny how little things will come up every now and then. F: Like my grandpa the other day randomly, I think one of the cousins was complaining about how the food at her school was terrible and that's why she didn't eat. F: And my grandpa made a comment. He was like, I tried to eat sawdust one time because I was moving with his brother and they were traveling by train, tried to get across the border and they were starved and they try to eat sawdust but it wouldn’t–he's like but I wouldn't go down. So we ended up just turning ourselves into immigration officers. F: Because it's all these little stories that will come up every once in a while that are just crazy to hear people's experiences. F: And even one of my family members that recently had to cross the border–it was just terrible. It was just horrible. And I can't believe it's still happening. F: But, you know, I do–I do have a lot of hope for them. And yeah. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Fernanda Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Mexico to Wichita, Kansas. Description An account of the resource Fernanda grew up in Wichita, Kansas. Her mother is from Aguascalientes, Mexico and her father is from Chiapas, Mexico. Fernanda attended a Catholic school with a majority Latino/Hispanic and Vietnamese student body. In this interview, she talks about growing up in a community that she could relate to as well as her third year of high school which she identifies as her turning point for understanding her identity. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Mexico Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1990s Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_g0fis4kp" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_g0fis4kp/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Clip of Fernanda"></iframe> <iframe width="100%" height="800" src="https://uploads.knightlab.com/storymapjs/cd7565c4fe1257583797c055d04a37d0/routes-to-the-heartland/index.html" frameborder="0"></iframe> Discrimination Education Identity Lawrence Mexico Social and Family Networks Wichita Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gabriela Language of Interview English and some Spanish Format Video, audio only, text only video Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Overland Park, Kansas Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Gabriela (G) Marta (M) G: I just happened to see a post from Angela Cervantes about how she had a group of women that used to meet and write stories. And she said that she wanted to start it up. I answered her and I said, hey, I'm Latina; I'm a writer. Can we start up something? When do you meet? And I forget what the name of the group group– M:--Las fuerzas G: And it was her and myself, and José, and Maria. They all knew each other. I was an outsider. And then of course, we added Miguel. I mean, we had I think a group of about 30 by the time we were done. You know, it did morph into something else, into a group that was just Spanish speakers. G: But it definitely speaks to what you were saying, how there's a sense of no Latinos in the Midwest and maybe it was maybe it was 32 years ago, I moved to Overland Park and yes, I did feel I was the only Latino within a 20 mile radius, and I probably was. G: But anyway, that was a dream of ours, to get our voices, to get our faces out in the public. We did it strongly for about ten years. I say we had maybe 30 readings a year. We were very busy. We did file to be a nonprofit. We've done everything from libraries to, we've been to the AWP several times, which was very impressive– M: And it’s back again? Yeah. Three or four times in March, I believe. G: So, I haven't done it since I've been a teacher. That part of my life, it's like maybe I should do something with my thesis. I'm working on writing again. But yes, there was a need and we found each other by chance. We were more than just an organization, we were a family, we still keep in contact with each other. G: I believe that in a time of need that if somebody called us up, we would all gather and again, maybe not have it as, as strong as we used to. But I think for me personally, it's the reason I'm teaching in middle school. I realized that I really did well with the younger generation. G: We did a couple of workshops with the migrant youth at KU where they host them over the summer and teach them leadership skills and all that. And we did two or three of those. I felt strongly that those children needed to see somebody like me as their educator. I wanted to make a difference. I think that's basically what everyone else in the group wanted. G: A lot of us have gone on and done some wonderful things like Zanath Caraza, she's out of what ten, 12 books published now, the first time she ever read in public, was it one of our readings? So she was definitely very much part of the organization also. But anyway, so that's what I have to say. G: What questions do you have before I follow up? M: So let me ask some follow up. Where do you teach now? G: I teach in Topeka School District. M: Oh, wow. G: I teach at Landon Middle School. I'm a seventh and eighth grade dual language teacher. M: Wow, wow. G: The vast majority of my children are Latinos. They come from Scott, dual language, which is a bilingual program. Dual language program, yes. That's what I do. Again, I'm serving the community and the kids are like my children. I'm invited to all the quinceñera parties or whatever because they like seeing someone like me in the classroom. M: Yeah. Do you do you see your teaching as a way of changing or I don't know, making tea more a home for Latinos like do you see the fact that you're teaching there as in some way changing the place? I knew very little bit about Topeka because I don't live in Topeka, but there is already a community there, a very [lots of emphasis] strong community, especially within the community of dual language parents, that advocates for the program, they're advocates for their children, they're advocates for their education. G: It only takes me a simple statements like “te habla con tu mamá, or “hablar con su mamá” , okay, no, no, no, Ms. Lemons. When Ms. Lemons calls means, she's already giving you 50 chances. The community is there, G: It’s a northeastern part of Topeka and not all good, but that's where my children come from. Even the children that are not native speakers, that are not Latino are part of the group. It's part of the family. M: Yeah. Okay. Let me [unknown] the Zoom lens. I guess I have two questions and I'm going to backstory this by talking to you about something I was talking about with José Faus, okay? Because as you know, he's in addition to being a writer, he's a muralist. And he did that gorgeous fantastic mural in Argentine that's well known. M: Now as I think about how we make a place our Latinos like, it's really obvious to me how murals can help to make a place their own right. Like you're painting the history of your community on a wall. Or, I don't know, Mexican restaurants or Mexican stores, things like that. M: I wonder how writing fits into that. Like can writing make a place? And the follow up question, is teaching a form of advocacy or activism in your case? [laughs]. G: Absolutely. In my, my peer that the other dual language teacher that does the lower grades, the sixth and seventh, She, for example, doesn't like to do a lot of story writing, she doesn't like to do poetry and novels that she does more of the grammar and all that. Definitely. G: As a matter of fact, I try to extend my children's learning by introducing authors that normally they would traditionally would not be taught. I teach them like for example, Gabriela Garcia Marquez. We'll also read the poet. I'm drawing a blank…Peruvian poet. There's Octavio, I'm drawing a blank– M: It’s okay. It will come to you later. G: It'll come to me. Yeah. But anyway, I definitely introduce some of the Latin American authors to them so that they know that people of brown color have beautiful voices and what beautiful language the Spanish language is. G: But yes, I think another thing that I became aware, fully aware of the need of me being in a school with dual language kids was we do a lot of story writing. And for example, I have them write semi-biographies, autobiographies of themselves, and I learned a lot about what their neighborhood is, the violence, the drugs, the issues with immigration. They will tell me the truth in their papers. G: I'm a culturally responsive teacher, where everything I teach somehow try to relate to their own personal lives. I think it makes a difference because my children do their work– M: Yeah. G: You know, and not only that, if you're excited about writing poetry or about just writing in general, they're going to be excited about it. M: Yeah. G: So, yes. I think that it's important to do this for the kids, offer an extension of their traditional teaching, because I think it gives them a voice, most definitely. I believe that these children have their own opinions, they have their own beliefs. And I think it's important for them to, important for me to mentor them so that they can write what their personal values are. What makes them strong in their community as a son and a daughter. G: Because when we have parent-teacher conferences, it's always about respect. You have to respect your t– [the parents ask]: “Is my son or daughter respecting you, Ms. Lemmons? If not, give me a call.” G: Sometimes when people come to the United States as immigrants, they say after the second generation that you lose the language, some of the culture. But my children are not like that. Sometimes when we have days that we're just doing easy work, relaxing on a Friday. What kind of music do they want to play when I play Spotify? They want corridos, they want reggaeton, they want Fernandez. G: Definitely, they advocate for themselves and their culture. I think that they need to see more people like me in the classroom. But I hope I answered your questions, but– M: You did, you answered the second one very well. And I'm going to get back to it in a second. What about the first one? Does writing have a role in making place? G: Absolutely. M: How? G: I will give you an example. I teach House on Mango Street by Sandra Ciseneros. It was one of the first books I ever read, that Latino brown person. And it was in college. I didn't know that Latinos wrote until I got to college. And this is being from South Texas actually. She was one of my college professors at the University of New Mexico, and I'm part of the Macondo, which is something she founded. G: And I tell them that this is big in House on Mango Street, it is definitely about a sense of place, a sense of, a sense of belonging. I have several projects that relate to the sense of being, the importance of knowing who you are and where you came from. I haven't, for example, to do a diagram of their house, what does their house look like? And then I say, okay, well, what about the five senses? What do you smell? Do you smell? What is that soap? It’s fabuloso? They're always fabuloso. What do you taste? Tamales, pinto beans or whatever. What is your world? G: And then I say, okay, pick one of the places in your house, or even outside the house that speaks to you the most. Go into that place and tell me what you see, what you hear, what you taste, tell me your story. And they love that project. I come out with some fabulous stories, Not all happy, like I'm eating food or whatever, I'm celebrating La Navidad or whatever. Some of these stories are deep and they're not all pretty. M: Yeah, yeah. G: I think writing definitely has a place in making my children feel that they have a voice, that somebody understands them and their voice is important. Yeah. Somebody is listening to them. This is who I am and where am I going to go to? Wherever you go to family is always your roots–your raíces. M: So that's beautiful. That was a great example. Thank you so much for that example. That was a wonderful example. G: I am trying to get back into writing. I've just been so busy. When I went to the transition to teaching program, I literally like took six college hours each semester, and then I taught full time, got thrown into it. Into yeah, I've been slowly trying to get back to my writing, but I think that's where my corazón is. M: Yeah. Yeah. G: There's another thing I want to share other than the center, so is the House on Mango Street. We have a section where we talk about cultures, about people that come from other countries, immigrants in our text and I developed a lesson plan, it's a process, number one, I ask the children in Del work. Basically, if you were to if you were to tell name me, the person in your family who knows everything about the family, you know, I forget the jargon, Who would it be? G: ´Then I ask . Okay. Oh, whatever. Mom and dad. And then I say, okay. So who are you from? That's the second question. What do you know about where you're from, whether what country or whatever, whatever your last name. Then I say, okay, you found your expert on the family, the historian or whatever. M: Right. G: Okay. Write me five questions that you want to know about you and your family or about yourself. Okay? So they do that. Then the fourth part is I say, okay, we get all the kids together in groups and I say we're going to do jot thoughts. Okay. Again, including the five that you had given me the previous day. Jot down as much as you can. Things you want to know. Where do we come from? Do we have anybody who served prison? What's your favorite food? G: Well, what do you want to ask these people? If you had in front of you, why would you ask them? So I come up with a list of about 100 questions that the kids come up with on their own, not me. Yeah. And they have to pick ten of them and they have to interview this person and it's phenomenal. M: That sounds like a fantastic exercise. G: I mean, they, they have to do a Google Slide presentation, they have to present to the class and like last year I found out that half of my children came from Durango [Mexico]. M: Oh, wow. Wow, that's fascinating. G: It a joke. It was a joke after a while. And I said, you know what, You know what it is? It's like there's somebody in Durango says, hey, you know, “Tengo una tía en Durango y te puede dar chamba:” you know, why don't you move to Topeka? I said, yeah, that's how community starts. Yeah. But anyway, that's a project too, where they get to learn about themselves and some other history. Anyway, I've got l– G: I have something to tell you. Definitely have something to talk about. Yes. Be cause. My birth father, who died recently, was actually very much involved in the Farm Workers Union. Uh huh. It was actually one of Sid Chavez bodyguard. And I was adopted out of the family, but my siblings all worked in the fields in Santa Maria, California. And my mother was actually a civil case where the United Farm Workers sued the growers because she got really sick from the pesticides. M: Oh my God. G: And my brother, my brothers, remember I still have two of them alive, three of them. Remember Cesar Chavez staying over at their house. They knew whenever Cesar Chavez came over that we would be sleeping in the garage. And they talk about how the women used to come over to the house in Santa Maria and do the flags and stuff. G: So would you be interested in something like that? M: I would love to hear that. Okay. G: That would be my brother even told me one time how they would do the hats to wear the fields. M: Oh my gosh, I am to hear, I feel really bad. G: My father passed a couple of months ago, my birth father, and he personally knew who is the woman, the right hand of Cesar Chavez? …Dolores Huerta. They were friends. They were friends. And I always wanted to put them in contact with each other. M: So thank you so much Gabriela. We'll be back in touch anytime, any time I'll send you the stuff on the ficciones. G: Yes, yes, yes. I'm on board with that. M: Awesome, thanks, Gabriela. G: All right. Adíos. M: Bye bye. G: Bye bye. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gabriela Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Southern Texas to Topeka, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_as2ny51q" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_as2ny51q/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland_Gabriela Trimmed"></iframe> Description An account of the resource Gabriela has Spanish and Mexican heritage and grew up in Southern Texas. Currently, she serves her community as a middle school teacher at a dual language (English and Spanish) school in Topeka, Kansas. In this oral history, you can listen to Gabriela’s approach to teaching as well as her family’s connections to prominent Latino activists such as Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta. Community Education Identity Texas Topeka Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gibette Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Video City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Dominican Republic Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Gibette (G) G: It's a little strange or a little complicated. My family is Dominican from the Dominican Republic. That is my mom and my dad and their mom and their dad and my uncles and everybody is from the Dominican Republic. G: But my mom's sister married a Puerto Rican man at some point in her life. So she used her connections with this Puerto Rican man to get residency for all of her siblings. This was back when it was relatively easy to do that. In the 70s or something or 80s. G: And so my mom had a green card, US Green Card while they were still living in the Dominican Republic. So my parents decided to move to Puerto Rico. And they still hadn't moved to Puerto Rico when I was born. But because they knew they were going to move to Puerto Rico, my mom had to…while she was pregnant, she had to go to Puerto Rico to stay with my sister who lived there for the last month of her pregnancy. And that's where I was born. I was born in Mayaguez, Puerto Rico. I never lived there; not once. G: I spent maybe the first month of my life there. And then I went to visit my friends for my cousin's wedding for like three days. G: So technically, I am from my Mayaguez, Puerto Rico, but I have never been there for very long. So it's kind of weirdly identity confusing. G: Anyways. So then my mom had me and she went back to the Dominican Republic because that's where they lived still. And I lived there for the first six or seven months of my life. G: When I was a really tiny baby in the Dominican Republic, my mom says that somebody held me who was infected with an amoeba or something happened. Anyway, point is that I got so sick with an amoeba that I almost died as an infant. And then my mom had to go. She says she had to sneak into her neighbor's yard to steal milk from his goat so that she could feed me goat milk. And somehow that saved my life. G: So that's pretty much my first and only experience in the Dominican Republic before I got better and then survived and we all moved to Puerto Rico. G: So..Then, now we're in Puerto Rico. My family lived in Arecibo, which is in the northwest of the country, like right up at the coast. And I lived there until I was nine. G: I guess I'm Puerto Rican, but in the Puerto Rico, we were known as the Dominican family. So we were already outsiders from the very beginning. They’re the Dominicans in Puerto Rico. G: But then when we went to visit the Dominican Republic, we were like the little Puerto Rican cousins and we had weird accents and we didn't belong there either. G: So yeah, I've never really not from the very beginning of my life, have I been in a place where I'm allowed to belong? So, yeah, that was Puerto Rico. G: As you may be aware, Puerto Ricans are proportionally lighter skinned than Dominicans. There is a little bit of racism directed at Dominicans there. So it was kind of tough growing up there and having all that directed at you. G: So I don't have hugely amazing memories of Puerto Rico in that sense, because I didn't really feel very welcomed there. But it is part of my identity in a lot of ways. G: For instance, one time I was–Recently Lin-Manuel Miranda wrote a song for the Hurricane Maria relief. And the song was everybody–He got a bunch of artists together and they were singing place names, like city names, from Puerto Rico. G: And that was the story–the song. And it's very beautiful. G: And I downloaded it because when you paid for it, you got to give money to Puerto Rico. And it was weird like hearing all the place names. It really brought something out at me like, Oh yes, this is, this is familiar, this is part of my story. G: And also he put a sound in the song, which is this tiny little frog called a coquí, which only lives in Puerto Rico. It's the only place in the world where it lives. And it makes this little sound like “doo-doop, doo-doop” [high-pitched, two beats]: it's kind of a cute little whistle sound. And it only happens in Puerto Rico. So he put the sound in the song. G: When I heard the song, I was like, “Oh my gosh, is the sound of my childhood. I know the sound. It's so familiar.” G: For all of my life. I've thought of myself as a Puerto Rican person, but I'm sorry, as a Dominican person and then people tell me, Oh, but you're born in Puerto Rico? You’re Puerto Rican. And then I get mad. But now in my old age, I think to myself like, Oh, there is a part of me that is Puerto Rican in some way. So yeah, that was growing up when I was very little. G: And then when I was nine, my parents were doing pretty well financially. My dad was the general manager of Encyclopedia Britannica in Puerto Rico. And this was in 1997. And already the Encyclopedia is, we're starting to get, what's the word threatened by the Internet? G: Because like one, not the internet. Like they started making encyclopedias available on CD ROM, which were a lot less profitable. So already like things were starting to take a downturn. So my dad saw the writing on the wall and he was like, Oh, we can't stay here, even though we were doing really well there. It wasn't gonna be sustainable for a much longer. G: So he decided to move us all to the US. As general manager–he was overseeing all of the Puerto Rican branches–so he had to travel a lot throughout Europe and throughout the United States. So he saw a lot of different places as he traveled. And the place he liked the most was Colorado for some reason. G: I think part of it is he didn't want to be among too many Dominicans. I guess. You want it to be like immersed in whiteness perhaps. Because he emphatically did not want to move to Florida, which is where other Caribbean people go, or to New York, where it's where all the Dominicans go. G: So we ended up in Colorado, which was super random. There are no Dominicans and in Colorado, maybe like five, and most of that is my family. G: Yeah. It was really strange because I don't know if other Latin American parents are like this with their kids. But at least with my parents, they never really brought us into their decision-making as children. We just went along for the ride. G: So one morning my sister told me we're moving to the United States in two weeks. And I was like, You lie, like that can't be happening. Surely there will be some sort of warning or some kind of preparation. G: But it turned out that, yeah, we were moving to the US and two which was insane. It was the most horrible thing ever. I had all my friends and everything [in the Dominican Republic]. Yeah. G: I remember that morning when she told me she was like How old was she? She was 12. She was at that age where everything is really melodramatic. So she's looking out at the sunset and she's like, “This is one of our few last sunsets in Puerto Rico”. She said something like that and I thought she was a goddess because she was my older sister. And I was like, yeah, Our last sunset. It was a very sort of pseudo philosophical moment. G: But yeah, so, yeah, with very little warning, we move to the United States. To Denver, Colorado. We arrived at the beginning of October in 1997. And back in those days before global warming, October was a really cold month in Colorado. G: So yeah, when we arrived it was pretty cold. I don't know if it was like cold-cold, but it was definitely cold. The coldest I had ever been in my entire life because Puerto Rico is tropical, Dominican Republic is tropical. I had never ever been cold. And also, we came in with little windbreakers because you can't find jackets in Puerto Rico. G: So we arrive by the time we get our bags and everything, it's like two in the morning. So he stepped out of DIA; it's two in the morning. It's freezing cold. We are not prepared for the cold. I literally thought this was death. It had to be death. There's no way in a living person could exist like this. So yeah. G: It was the craziest experience. G: Yeah, We got our little rental car and we did not know anyone in Colorado, I think in retrospect. Well, I am certain My father is insane because why why would you move to a place? You didn't know a single person. G: But yeah, we got our little rental car and we set out into the world. And for me and my sisters, we were kids. It was exciting. It was kinda fun like doing this whole new thing with no–with no plan and no safety net. But now in retrospect, I just–I can’t imagine how terrifying that must have been for my parents. G: Like I have immigrated to a new country now as an adult. And this is me with no kids and a whole lot of preparation. And even then it's terrifying, so I can't imagine what it must have felt like for them. G: So yeah, that evening we set out. We were exhausted because the flight had taken ages. Then we–we [laughing softly] needed to find a place to sleep. So we're driving along. We don't know anything about where Anywhere is. G: We end up at a strip of motels along a street called Coalfax. And one of them is called Family Motel. So we're like, yeah, that's the place for us. We are a family and we need a motel. So my dad got us a room and it was a huge king bed. And we all sort of laid down on the bed without even taking your clothes off because we were so exhausted and we slept there for the night. G: Many years now, many years later, quite soon after we came to find out that that strip of motels is quite predictably a very seedy street with motels. That street, Colfax is where the “ladies of the evening” go to do their business. G: So yeah, it was a bad choice in retrospect. But at the time it seemed like a good idea. G: I don't know why it was called Family Motel–maybe to make it seem a little more respectable what they were doing. But yeah, so we ended up–I think that's a testament to how ill-prepared my parents were to live life in the United States. G: Yeah. But when my dad had come here, he knew that there was a certain school district called the Cherry Creek School District, which was the best school district in Denver. He wanted to get us an apartment in that area. So the next day we set out and looked around at apartments and found an apartment. G: And obviously we didn't have any like, food or things to cook with. Yet. On that first day, my dad was like, oh, after we get the apartment and after we figure everything out, we're gonna go to a restaurant and we're so excited. They were like, Oh, we're gonna pick a restaurant. And we found this restaurant called Souper Salad, which was a buffet. And we're like, Oh buffet, this should be delicious. G: Now we step in and it's actually a buffet of like cold American salads, like macaroni salad and potato salad and spaghetti salad. Everything was cold. Then there was soup. And it was just the most disgusting thing ever. G: We had never had salads like that. We were just traumatized at how growth everything was, and it was a buffet. So it was like, oh, yeah, you can have as much as you want except we didn't want any of it. G: It was so traumatizing to be thrown into Midwestern cooking at the deep end. G: So yeah, it was a very weird day. G: But then we ended up with a–with a apartment and then we…The school was down the street from our apartment, so it was well-chosen. G: My dad spoke a fair amount of English because he had studied it in school and he was a real smarty pants, so he was pretty good at it. But my mom spoke no English and we girls spoke the amount of English that you learn in school. So they sort of muddled through getting us enrolled in school and everything. G: Then…Let's see. Oh, yeah. I remember our apartment was on the corner of Iliff and Peoria and they made us memorize that “I Iliff and Peoria. Iliff and Peoria.” Just in case we ever got lost. We were–we were supposed to tell people, “Oh, I live on Iliff and Peoria.” Yeah. G: We were right down the street from the school and the school had this really big sign with–it had the temperature on it every day. So my dad did this thing where he would step outside and he'd like feel the air for a second and then he thought “ummmm it's 65 degrees today” and we didn't know how he knew. And then much later we found out that he could see the sign that had the temperature on it. So yeah, he tricked us. Any who… G: Yeah, my dad would teach us English in the evenings when we came home from school, he would get his little whiteboard and Teach us like conversational phrases. I still remember he taught us the phrase, by the way, as a way to change the topic. Oh, by the way, I think that's the only phrase that I remember specifically from what he taught us. Yeah. G: I don't quite remember how we learned English. We just learned how it is with kids. G: But I do remember, oh my gosh, this was so exciting. So when I arrived, I was in the fifth grade and I was in a regular fifth grade classroom. Everyone was like sort of weirdly fascinated with me for the first couple of days. And then they got bored of me. I couldn't talk to anyone. I couldn't speak English. G: But sometimes I would go to the ESL classroom, which was amazing. It had a whole wall of books. It was just so many books all in one place. I was obsessed with it immediately. So when I would go to the ESL classroom, I found all of the books that were in Spanish. I read them all. And then I read them all again. And then I ran out of books and Spanish. So I was forced to read the books in English because what else am I gonna do? I started reading all the books in English just because I had to. And that's really how I just started learning because I was forced to read books in English. So that was my ESL classroom. G: And I remember one day, me and my little sister were both in elementary school, she was in the third grade and my ESL teacher took me aside. And she was like, Oh, I need to talk to you about your sister. She likes to–she likes to “exa-juh-rar”. And I was like “exa-jih-rar?” and she's like Yeah, yeah, yeah. “exagerar”. And I'm like, What are you saying? So she pointed to the word in the dictionary and I was like, Oh, she [my sister] “exagera”. Oh, I get it. So yeah, there was a bit of a language barrier there. But yeah, we learned pretty soon. And then let's see what happened after. G: So then my dad started a business in the Dominican Republic because he really wanted to have done really well in business before he wanted to strike big again. He never succeeded. But any who–because he was doing businesses and the Dominican Republic a year after living in Colorado, he decided to move us to Florida so that he could travel more easily. G: And once again, they gave us no warning about this. So tell me why on a Friday afternoon–on a Friday morning, I get to school. And my all my students…all my teachers are like, “, I'm so sorry that you're moving and I'm like, I'm not moving” and they're like, “Well, your mom came and gave us your textbook. She said that you're moving.” And I was like, no, that's not happening. Give me my textbook, I need my books. So all day long, I was getting my textbooks back from my teachers. Then when I get to the car at the end of the day, my mom's like, why do you have those textbooks? I returned them and I was like, Why? She said we're moving today. I'm like what?...Anyway, it was a crazy time. G: We moved to Florida for a year and then my dad's business failed. And then we move back to Colorado where our hearts belongs because we had really come to fall in love with it in that time. So yeah, that's where I grew up in Colorado. G: What's funny is, by the time I came back from Florida, I had read so many books that I was like, insanely good at English in a very short amount of time. So when they tested me to place me in a class back in Colorado, they–the placement was advanced English and they were like, No, surely that can't be; she learned English two years ago. G: They put me in remedial English for no reason. G: I had to take remedial English in seventh grade for no reason just because they thought I couldn't speak English. G: It was quite unfair. G: Then. Yeah. That's pretty much it. Oh, and then grew up and all this stuff. G: So I did my undergrad in Washington State, which is in the Pacific Northwest, it is quite different from the Midwest. G: Quite different in ways that I was not prepared for. G: People are very friendly, very kind, but very not friendly. Like they're nice to you, but then they don't like reach out, they're not warm. Yeah. G: And then I did my master's in Michigan, which is very Midwest. G: I've lived most of my life in the US, in the Midwest. And then when I went to do my doctorate, I applied to a lot of different places and I got accepted to the University of Kansas. G: I was really excited about going–getting to a doctorate. But people in Colorado are not super kind about Kansas because of state rivalries, I guess. So I would tell people like, “Hey, I'm going to get a doctorate” and they're like,”Oh, that's amazing. Where?” [I was like] “in Kansas.” Then they were like “Oh…” G: But actually I'm so glad I ended up at the University of Kansas. It was so amazing. My first summer that I lived there, I got a fellowship for applied humanities to do some local history research at the Lawrence Public Library. G: So I did a ton of research into the early history of Kansas and Lawrence. And it was fascinating. It's such a really–it is such a cool history. G: Just, you know, all the Civil War conflicts and all of the founders and everything. So doing that history project really helped me feel like this town is kind of like it reflects who I am a little bit. This sort of like a place that was–that didn't belong, where it belongs. And that everyone was kind of attacking and saying that you shouldn't be here. But they were like, You know what, we're gonna be here anyway. And they were kind of like bookish and nerdy and they didn't know what they were getting into. I felt like, yeah, that's that tracks. That's pretty much what I mean, what I'm about. G: So yeah, I lived in Kansas for five years and I'm really, really good in it, at least in Lawrence. It was a really beautiful place. G: And now I moved to South Korea because I wanted to. G: It's only now that I'm immigrating as an adult that I realized, wow, that must have been so hard for my parents to do. G: Like immigrating is no joke. It's like everything that used to define you as an adult and a human no longer exists. And you're like, oh my, like, who am I? What is my role in society? What is my value to society? G: And one thing that my parents really, really made us do was–what's the word–mix with American society and learn really good English and just really not necessarily assimilate because they were always very proud of our Dominican culture. But, you know, mingle, mingle with Americans. G: And they always kinda low-key made fun of people who stayed in Spanish communities and never learned English. They were like, Oh, that's so so-and-so. G: But now that I'm living in Korea, like it is terrifying being in a country where they don't speak your language and you have to do like legal things and official things in a language that you don't understand. G: Like, I don't know what I'm getting myself into. I could be signing away my life without knowing it. Of course, I need this translated. G: So now I super understand why people stay in those communities and why people need these resources because yes, yes, they need them. G: Alright, so one thing that was difficult when we moved to the US was that, like I said, we were Dominicans in Colorado. And in Colorado, they only Latin–Latinx people are Mexicans Really, or Central American people, mostly Mexican people. G: So it is true what they say that it's hard for Latinx people to build a sense of solidarity right away. When we arrived to [sic] the US, we were Dominican among Mexicans. We did not belong together. They were different. So it was really hard to get a sense of community with the Latinx people who are there. G: For instance, there was a Mexican church, but my dad, sorry Hispanic church, but my dad never wanted us to go there because oh, they're Mexican. G: So yeah, it was strange to find a community of people, especially because we look the way we look like Dominicans look like they're mixed with black and white. So in school people would ask me, “Oh, you're mixed.” And I'm like, “Oh, well, yes-no. I'm kind of mixed, but I'm Dominican, I'm Hispanic.” And they're like, “Oh, you don't look Mexican.” And I'm like, “I'm not Mexican, it's a different thing.” G: So it's really, really hard to define myself for a long time. G: People would ask me like, “Where are you from?” And I would want to say the Dominican Republic. But first of all, that takes forever to say; second, many people thought I was saying the Banana Republic, which is a store and not a country. And also yeah, it just people weren’t understanding what it was that I'm saying. G: So a lot of times I just said Puerto Rico because it was easier and people knew what it was. So many times I'd be like, yeah, I'm Puerto Rican or I'm from Puerto Rico. G: So for a long time I sort of alternated back and forth like I'm Dominican or for Rican and a no. And also like, I had just moved from Puerto Rico. G: So it did feel like then many, many years passed and we kept going back to the Dominican Republic and visiting family and everything. So my connection with the Dominican Republic was maintained, whereas my connection with Puerto Rico was kind of lost. G: So I started consistently calling myself Dominican. And I remember one time somebody was like, “Oh yeah, I know someone from the Dominican Republic or maybe Nicaragua. One of the two.” And I'm like, “Yeah, it's not the same thing at all, but okay; thank you for trying.” G: Yeah. It was strange to find an identity. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gibette Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from the Dominican Republic to Lawrence, Kansas. Description An account of the resource Gibette’s family is from the Dominican Republic but moved to Puerto Rico just before she was born. She remembers feeling different from the other Puerto Rican children because of her cultural background and skin color. She moved to Colorado, Florida, and then back to Colorado again because of her father’s job. She came to Lawrence to study for her PhD. Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_8bahxqut" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_8bahxqut/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Gibette Trimmed"></iframe> Colorado Community Dominican Republic Education Florida Identity Lawrence Puerto Rico Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gina Format Video, audio only, text only Audio City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Guerrero, Mexico Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Lawrence, Kansas Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gina Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Guerrero, Mexico to Lawrence, Kansas Description An account of the resource Gina is an indigenous woman from a rural town in Guerrero, Mexico. She speaks of her childhood which was when she realized that her family’s resources were very limited. Gina arrived in Lawrence, Kansas with hopes of continuing her education but found herself with a younger daughter to care for. She says that she has chosen to stay in Lawrence with her family because it protects her in a way other cities in other states would not. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Lawrence, Kansas Identity Language Lawrence Mexico Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Greg Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Audio City (Region, State) and Country of Origin for 2nd and 3rd generation, this is the place of family's origin Ghana Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Garden City, Kansas Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Marta (M) Greg (G) G: It was about August 2014 that I was asked by my authority I mean, to church. To church. G: I was asked by my authority to come to the United States of America to study for my master's degree. And actually that was the first time I was traveling outside my country. I come from Ghana in the west part of Africa. G: So 2014, some day in August. I was first say I came to Ohio to steady for two years. And it was quite an interesting experience for me because there were so many things that I wasn't used to , hich having come here I got to learn. G: My first experience of being here was that United States is, I already know, is the greatest country admirably on the planet, on this Earth. So when I came here, my view of USA was really true. G: And so I began my studies after having spent about only two weeks. And the first time I went to the school, I was a bit–a little bit surprised because I was the only black guy in the midst of this…White Americans and the language was really very tough for me to understand the lecturers because we have quite a different accent. G: I learned English back in Ghana. [In] Ghana English is a second language, so I have my own local dialects. G: That the first culture shock for me was, you know, the accent. I couldn't really understand what the lecturers so I tell it I had to because I need that to do the course. But about three weeks time, I began to really understand them well. And they could also understand me. G: So that story. The first culture shock was about the accent, which was difficult for me to hear. And I believe they also find it difficult to hear me. G: And another experience…I have another experience was about the weather because we're going to the winter, which I've never seen snow my life early–only in television. G: So first morning, the guy I used to live with, he really knew where I was coming from. And so he.somewhere in November that I had my first snow after waking up from sleeping in the morning, I opened my window and I saw this. So let's say I had to go into it, how it is. Okay. G: Then after that I experience, it took me three years to finish the course back in Ohio. G: And my authority again asked me to come to Kansas to continue with my church ministry. G: And coming from Ohio to Kansas was also quite a different experience. With time, I got used to the Kansas weather it's like the wind was one of the things that caught my attention, especially driving on the road and meeting the semi. The car will shake like [unknown] and I said, Wow, time. G: I also got used to the Kansas whether the wind, yeah. G: And having been here for about six years now, there are so many things I have learned from the people I have worked with. Their hospitality, generosity, how they care about people, how they are able to support one way or the other. My ministry. And also the way some people meet you on the street or the park and they smile. They don't know you but they will smile and say “hi”. G: It was quite a nice experience for me, you know? G: Yeah. I've been in Kansas I think about four years now. And I've lived here pretty well. G: Another challenge for me now is about the food. You know, I had to learn how to eat American food, Mexican food..And where I am, it is really hard to get to an African market except to, maybe we're just grabbing from here to wait. 4 hours drive [and I] cannot be going there often. G: So I have to manage with what I have here. So I enjoy some of the food, some others too, you know, you have to. But occasionally, I tried to cook and prepare my own meal where I come from, our favorite meal is fufu. G: We eat fufu, we eat rice, we eat fish. And there are so many local dishes that I cannot get here. G: Also, I miss church because we have, as an African, we have–we have our, our way of our own way of worship, music, dancing, same game. So here everything is like solemn, seems to be solemn. G: But there, there are so much music dancing and when people are in check the pour their hearts out. The bands are cultural dance and that kind of thing. G: So sometimes I miss the music. G: And also other times too, I miss talking to the family. We have a standard and nuclear family. Your aunties, your grand–your uncles. Yeah, grandpas–we are so closely knit. So sometimes also, I miss my mom and my dad, but I tried to go home once every year just to see them and come back. Yeah. G: So I like–I like living here; I've learned so much, so many great things: how to be efficient in my ministry and wanting that we Africans, we lack is about our time. You know, we don't, we don't really, we are not punctual in so many aspects. G: But here, another surprise was when church begins, let's say four [it starts at] is four, not even 1 minute. And after chest starts, nobody comes in. And it was very shocking. G: Back in Africa, four will be five. You know, people will late. G: Yeah. So these are some of the things–the way people respond to tie, the way people enjoy the games, you know, the way that some will meet you. So nice weather. And I am like, “What is nice about this weather?” We're not used to that kind of thing. Yeah. People. G: People really…I’ve–I've really learned so many things. That's, I think when I go back to Africa, I'm going to be so much efficient in what I do. G: And what's really here. Sometimes you meet one or two people who are cold to you. The idea, one, I guess a few people and I think I've only had one encounter about somebody being rude to me. But in a nutshell, some wonderful people, great people, but you cannot have it all–we are from different backgrounds and different perspectives. G: So my stay in United States has been a blessing, a great blessing, as I might say, both in spiritual economy. Such a huge blessing for me. And I said place, I've come to love and live but because of my mission. I would have to go back home sometime, someday. And anytime I leave, I think I'll forever be grateful to this great nation. Yeah. G: So in a nutshell, I think my experience here has been that of I would say, a blessing. Yeah. This is what I can share. G: I come from a family of eight. My mom and dad's still living. My dad was a silver seven and my mom was a business woman. Yeah. So all of us were educated. G: And some people have this impression about Africa that is poverty, disease. Yeah, quite a good number of people are poor. But we have good number of people also who can..who or who have made it. So it is not all about, you know, it's not bad. But I think leaders in the continent could do better. So. G: Yeah, it's nice also to be in Africa. There are so many nice places. Beaches you go to Mozambique, Tanzania. Yeah. South Africa. Yeah. So, but I'm from West Africa happening. Yeah, sure. G: So nice sharing this experience with you. I thank you for. God bless. M: Thank you so much. Can I ask you some follow-up questions? Yeah. Okay. First of all, I wanted to say about the time thing. That is also true of Latin Americans. Yeah, I call it Latin-American time because I'm from Latin American background, but my parents are Cuban. G: Okay. M: I love other things about Latin American culture. I love that everyone talks at the same time. Yeah, interrupts each other. And it's all good. It's fine. It's wonderful. M: But the one thing I cannot, just a great deal of difficulty with Latin American time for me for is for yeah. G: Same as African see, yeah. M: Yeah. So let me just walk through some things I had questions about and you're as you talked about, can you tell us a little bit about you said you It's really hard to get African food and I can see that, yeah. You said some US food or Mexican food you like and I assume some of you don't like, could you go into a little bit more detail about that? G: Oh, I do like–I like enchiladas. I like tacos with pescadao–fish. I love. Yeah. Actually, most Mexican food are quite similar to what I'm used to. So any Mexican food–comida? Yes. I'll I'll go foreign. And even the American food. Yes, I like fish more, but here most people eat beef, steak, you know. Yeah. But I'm a fish. Actually, yes. Yeah. Yeah. M: Have you been to California at all? G: No. M: I love fish tacos. G: And they have California? M: Yeah. G: Yeah. Okay. M: So then you mentioned just very briefly about your ministry. Is there anything you want to say about that? About ministering to Kansans in Garden City? G: Yeah. My ministry is–mainly I'm a priest and minister to all manner of people, the elderly, the youth, the young. We have the school, sometimes I do teach once a while. We have a church school which I teach, you know. So I mean…full church ministry. Yeah. We do funerals and I do weddings and yeah. M: And I think you said church here seems to be a little sullen? Is that what you said? G: Solemn–solemn, not sullen…. M: S U L L E N, sullen? G: SOLEMN, solemn. M: Oh, solemn, right? G: Yes, solemn. M: And in Africa it's more celebratory? G: Yes. Yeah. M: Can you say a little bit more about that? I thought that was super interesting. G: In church back in Africa, a church, a typical Sunday weekend church takes about, say, 2 hours 30 minutes or 3 hours. Here, a church–Sunday church weekend church takes about 1 hour. G: So when we go to church in Africa. People come because of so many music and dancing. G: It takes even an offertory. Three people dance their hand out to give God the gifts. You know? So it's like a big church. It could take about 30 min or 1 hour for even the dancer low. And the sermon also tastes quite a longer time. G: You know, it's about the concept of time. [On the] weekend people have so much time to be in church. But here, you know, you have to [do everything in] 1 hour. Yeah. So there are so much you can do back home than here. G: But here is also, it gives you the clergy. You know, a little bit time to relax. You know, it's not all that demanding as compared to, you know, Africa, yeah. M: That's interesting. I wonder if Americans are–I don't know–they are so solemn and not celebratory. G: Yeah. M: Let's see…There was one other question I wanted to ask… G: Oh, you had mentioned that in general, your experience of the Midwest was very nice that people would smile at you, which is true, yeah? G: Yeah. M: Midwest west, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. M: Did you–have you encountered anything that you interpreted as racism or xenophobia or… G: Yeah. I think I did encounter–I did have an experience with a lady, white lady. I was going to renew my license. G: And it's like the first time I went, I think I have not brought all that documents I needed. I had come from Ohio with a driver license and it's expired and how to get a new one here. So when I was going to renew it, get a Kansas license, she told me to go get the other documents which I had forgotten, I think a proof of residence or whatever, I just left it at home. G: And the second time I went, I met the same lady who saw me. I said No. She wasn't ready to let me go to after having looked at all my documents and staff. And he had to send my document, headquarters or some place to get approved [to see if] it is authentic. G: And I told her, you know, look at my old license as you can check everything and this lady wouldn't let me. G: So I went there for the third time and she says, “No; there's no way.” And apparently I had to go to another city to do it, which when I went, they just did it. G: So I think I don't know. I wouldn't say I didn't know her motives, but there was nothing to deny me, but either she just didn't wasn't ready to, you know, It's like she was she saw me too–I don't know what that was suspicious of me, you know? I don't know. Yeah. M: And was that–Where was that? Was that in Garden City? G: no, it was in Dodge City. M: And where was the city that you went where there were no problems.? G: Hayes. M: Interesting. Okay. I think those are all my questions. M: Is there anything–Any last thoughts you want to share with the young people? G: Yeah. I think that young people, what I was saying is, you know, in the midst of what is going on. The global stuff. There is always an opportunity to be a different person. In the true sense of the word. G: You know, some people copy things blindly. Peer influence–but the life that we have given to us by God is so precious that we should always keep it protected. So they should try as much as possible to abstain from drugs or alcohol. And they should focus on their careers, education. Their jobs career, career orientation should–they should focus on that. G: And the sky, I believe, would be the limit. G: But the bad side of social media craze and they should be careful about all those things which probably [if] they don't take care could affect affect the potential for the future. Yeah. G: So they should just focus on the things that are good and leave the rest to, you know. Yeah. M: Thank you so much. I really appreciate this. G: Yeah. M: I really appreciate your telling me your story and I really appreciate the things that you said. Yeah. Okay. G: And another thing that I forgot to say is the sophistication here. Here everything is kind of internet based computer back home in Africa, only the big cities. G: And here, I am surprised, you have water throughout, electricity, throughout. G: Back home in Africa. Know there are places the are, they are in darkness. They don't get water to drink. But here, there is so much blessings here and people don't see. G: And I will recommend that the some also travel outside America, to have other experiences. G: And it's all really helped them to appreciate the blessings that they have here. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Greg Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Ghana to Garden City, Kansas Description An account of the resource Greg is from Ghana but lives in Garden City, Kansas. He shares his experiences about living in the U.S. Although he misses food like fufu, he has learned to enjoy Mexican and American food as well: he specifically likes enchiladas and tacos. One thing Greg enjoys about the U.S. is how friendly the people are. Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_pj5xrgal" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_pj5xrgal/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Greg Trimmed"></iframe> Community Culture Differences Garden City Ghana Language Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Hugo Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Audio Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Hugo (H) Marta (M) H: Well…I just wanted to start with saying that my experience as a Latino, Latinx male here in the Midwest does come with a lot of barriers, especially when my parents are both–are both immigrants and I consider myself first-generation. H: I'm the first one to go to college and my family, even though my older brother–he could have gone, but unfortunately, he doesn't have the means to go for certain reasons. But I guess my story, it really does start with, like, you know, like, when I was I guess when I was younger. H: When every time…I guess when I went to school, I always kinda felt ashamed of the part of who I am when I'm at home. I didn't want to share that to anybody. I didn't really feel, like at least when I was younger, I didn't really feel comfortable showing my Mexican side or the side that I show at home simply because I didn't know if that was accepted or or whatever. H: But I think as I grew older, I started to see kind of like, you know, I started to embrace that part of myself. H: I guess the reason why I felt like I couldn't show who I was or at least how I was in–I guess where I am like in my household was because I always saw that white was kinda like that being white was always a standard. H: You know I was very much influenced by TV, music, movies, and that was always kinda like the standard, like I always kinda was like this is what a family should be like. It should always be like the nuclear family. It should be a mom, dad, son and a daughter. And I was wondering like, why–why don't I have that? H: I just started, like, basically to question like, who I'm who I was, what–what exactly my identity is. H: It wasn't very…it was very recently when I found that like I started to kinda embraced it. Embrace it in my high school. It was like my first time ever taken a Spanish class, my first year. H: And that's when I saw like, Oh hey, like, you know, I mean, I'm not the best, the best Spanish speaker, but at least, at least I can kinda see where I'm kind of not necessarily. I'm like I'm not good at. H: I guess the reason why I tried to I guess I tried to be more connected to my roots and everything like that was because they saw that there was other people who were more, who started to embrace their own–their own culture, their own background. H: Especially like my Spanish teachers who were very much proud of who they were, very much proud of where they came from. Like I had one Spanish teacher who was from Querétaro, Mexico, and one teacher, if I believe, from Costa Rica. And they, they kinda like, kinda just showed me like hey like I shouldn't be afraid of who I am. H: Why am I also, for me, I'm also very passionate about, like, storytelling. Like I became more passionate about storytelling in the past year. H: And one of the things that my parents always do is they always told me stories about where they came from, how–how they came to the United States, what they did here in the United States before I was born, especially my father. H: Like he before he settled here in Kansas City with my mother, he actually lived in California and he would always told me stories about him working as a crew, a kitchen crew member or things like that. And he would always kind of like–he would always just share those experiences with me and somehow he would like embed a lesson between them. H: So it was like just hearing how storytelling can also give a lesson, encapsulate, encapsulate a lesson in between them that kinda, like, inspired me to want to continue to share stories. It was mostly because of my father and I think my parents have most definitely become such strong role models in my life. H: When I was, when I was younger, that was kinda like the opposite. I felt like I neglected them a little bit simply because I wasn't proud of why I am. H: But now that I'm realizing that they sacrificed so much for me that they–they've gone through so many obstacles you've done so much for me to be here, be in school, be able to go to college, be–have the ability to go to college, and have other opportunities that they can’t–they can’t always have. They were able to provide that for me. H: My parents are like the reason why I do a lot of things that I do. H: They, especially my dad, they inspire me to want to go into like–into film simply because I want to be able to share stories, tell stories, and not just like, like like, you know, like through pen and paper but mostly like visually. H: But I think in my essay when I wrote everything like that, that kind of like how everything kind of culminates into who I am, like, what kind of like how, how I came to be. I was mostly just inspired by, like, all my experiences. I'm like… H: At one point I felt like I was whitewashed. But then I realized, like, there's a part of me that I can't let go and that's being being Mexican–that's being who I am. But there's also this issue that I didn't necessarily…I wasn't born in Mexico and I was born here in America. So I was kind of like, where do I, where do I land? H: Where, where am I between these two identities? H: And that's, that's kinda like the question that I kind of tried to answer in that essay. Like, where exactly do I stand in between being American and being Mexican? H: Because I guess like my identity is–it's it can be very confusing, especially because I've never been to Mexico. But what I've experienced like my Mexican culture through my parents. I've experienced American culture by just experiencing here in the United States. H: But I also like, like I included this quote from the movie Selena, the biopic, where Abraham says to Selena and AB, that we, Mexican-Americans have to work twice as hard as Mexicans and Americans. We have to be as perfect as the Mexicans and as perfect as the Americans. H: Somewhere on those lines, I forgot how it goes, but that whole kind of like brought it all together. It kind of like, you know, like what we did is basically where do I stand? And I think that could really explain my situation. H: But I think the more I thought about that question, the more I thought about that statement, I learned that I can be both Mexican and American without having to stand by these standards or be defined by the standards of society. And embrace who I am. H: Like I don't have to choose this side or that side. I can, I can most definitely embraced them both at the same time. H: Like even though, even though in the past, like it has, the American culture has most definitely dominated who I was. I feel like I'm starting to come to a balance between both both being Mexican and being an American. H: I think they're like, I think another thing that, another aspect of my essay that I included was like, like how the title goes, “The Unwritten Rules of Living in My Mexican Household.” Like the rules that are in there in my essay, they're not, they're not technically, they're kind of like these made-up rules that I made that I've experienced through my parents. H: Like even though they never really sat set rules, It's like these rules were never like they're not written down and put in the living room so that we can read them more than just like they're just like rules that you've already lived through the day my parents expect me to follow, but not necessarily know them. H: And I don't know if that makes any sense. But they're just kinda like these rules that you you just know. They're not just rules: they're just statements. H: But a lot of the reason why I added those that aspect was because all of my life, I had to live by rules. I had to like I said before, like I wanted to I'm live this life that was perfect, that it follows these certain criteria. H: And like in the end, those rules aren't necessarily always good to follow or… H: And that's why like towards the end of my essay, I say that “sometimes these rules are meant to be broken” because you have to learn you have to learn them like a professional during them like a pro and break them like a profession. H: And I feel like because I've been able to break those rules between both American and Mexican side. It has to be me more, I guess, open to a lot of a lot of aspects of who I am. H: I also included those rules just for just as a way to kinda transition between topics. Because even though some topics do kind of like intertwine with each other, it was kind of hard to like just do like a, like a just a straight prose. H: I couldn't, I couldn't really wrap my head around just pulling just just talking all about me when I wanted to have something that could break up these like a breakup like these, these paragraphs and have a certain topic for each. H: But I think like for me, I was also really inspired by, by, I forgot his name but he was Ta-Nehesi Coates, the writer of Between the World and Me. He would, just talk about his experiences. I remember reading that essay in my English Composition 2 class. Dr. Paula concentrate gone. She made us read it and I was really inspired by that one. H: I was also inspired by another, another essay called Scholar Boy. I think I forgot who the author was, but that essay also really inspired me because it kinda like gave me that reassurance that my experiences have just like a unique one. It's some other people are actually experiencing them. And that kind of reassured me that, hey, like, I'm not alone here in this world, I'm not alone. And that was alone with my experiences and that made me feel better. H: But it was also really inspired by, by a lot of things that Issa Rae does. I think that she's a great filmmaker and writer. And she most definitely has these experiences. She taught, she normalizes these experiences and I wanted to write something that I wanted to normalize. H: And I was, I was very much inspired by a lot of these comedy, comedy people, I guess I would say like his comedy writers. Because like I wanted to, I wanted to keep my essay kind of lighthearted. I didn't want to go deep into like, into like a very existentialist topic or, you know, area. H: Because I felt like even though my experiences is something that I like, I need to I need to reflect on. I wanted to reflect on it on like in a very humorous way. That's when like some parts that are kind of like in a way very humorous, but at the same time they do, they do relate to experiences that I've had. H: But overall, I think my essay really does do a lot for who I am and points out like the things that my parents who inspires me, and that’s most definitely them, my parents who have sacrificed so much for me just to be here. H: And now, I didn't just write that essay for me. I wrote it for them because they most definitely have had a huge impact on my identity. My identity and even like parts of who I am. H: I feel like–feel like I covered most everything. M: Thank you so much. I want to say I do have a couple of questions just to ask you for follow-up, but I want to say, first of all, I was totally nodding and “a-ha”ing. I was totally with you all throughout. M: But I do want to say you are so thoughtful and articulate about your craft, whether the craft is writing or what you wanna do with filmmaking. So I just want to say more power to you. M: You're obviously just putting so much thought into not just what you want to get across, but how do you want to get it across and what style do you want to get it across in? And how do you break things up and how do you talk about yourself but not unrelentingly and just all those decisions are so thoughtful. M: So I want to say for what it's worth, it sounds like you're on the road to success and I think, and I hope you have amazing success. H: Thank you, I really appreciate it. M: I'm with you on the power of storytelling, visual or, or textual. I mean, there's nothing as powerful as the story. So that's kinda why I'm doing this. M: So you grew up–you grew up in Kansas City? H: Yes. I grew up in Kansas City. I think me and my little brother are the only ones who grew up in Kansas City. My older brother, he well–he was born in Mexico, but he was brought to Kansas City, I believe. After my dad came back to Mexico to get my mom and my brother to go back to the United States. M: And so in Kansas City, but not like an Argentine, not in a Latinx community in Kansas City? H: Well, yeah, I was born. I don't know. It's very weird because like when I was younger, I feel like I didn't really notice that most of my classmates were Hispanic and Latino demographics. So it was kinda like, you know, like I didn't know if I could relate to or not, but I did grow up in a very predominantly Hispanic and Latino and Black community. H: I grew up in Wyandotte County, I want to say in like in the northeast side. H: But yeah, I did grow up around there. M: And even surrounded by Latina, other Latinos, you still felt like that what you were describing, that you sounds like you were ashamed or weren't quite sure what to write and you're Mexican background, even even surrounded by other Latinos? H: I think I think it was just mostly because I didn't know much about my Mexican culture and I felt like maybe they don't know either. So it was like, hey, like if I share these experiences, they're probably going to think I'm weird. H: So it was–it was kinda like at least like when I was younger, I think now I'm more like, Oh, I'm much older. A lot of people. Their–“to each their own” they're their own culture and more understanding of at least myself and about other people. H: I feel like back then I was just very much naive about what other backgrounds of the people are. I think it was just because of my childhood mentality. M: But it's interesting that your school wasn't celebrating Cinco de Mayo? H: Yeah. I feel like my school never really acknowledged those aspects of his being Hispanic, being Latino, being black, Asian, etc. I feel like they most definitely did have the students. I felt like there was never really like a acknowledgement of these different cultures. M: Wow… H: I feel like not, not just in elementary, but also in middle school. I feel like because I went to a much more rigorous high-school, I feel like that's when I actually just started to see that people actually do celebrate each other's culture is and everything like that. M: Yeah, that's kinda intense that they were just sort of ignoring the cultural origins of a substantial portion of their student body. H: eah, I feel at least that's how I felt, at least when I was a child. I remember they'd like in middle school and most definitely just wasn't a huge thing. Obviously, we didn't have kinda like when we have those like dances, they would have like Mexican bachata and cumbia, all that. But it wasn't necessarily it was just mostly small request. H: But like when it came to like teachers or staff or the admin, they never really kinda like acknowledged. It was just mostly kinda like, like, oh, we have these students, they're there. They come from urban background. H: And I feel like now that I've, now that I'm thinking about it and you brought it up, it does kind of make me think like, oh hey, you like, because they didn't do that. That makes this part of the reason why a lot of kids like me go through these kind of thoughts. M: Absolutely. I mean, my kids grew up in Lawrence, Kansas, which is a pretty, you know, very predominantly white place. But their school served a very large, their elementary schools serve to large. It served all the international students. M: So there were always celebrations, intercultural international celebrations and taking pride in your heritage. And I just can't even imagine, yeah. My kid to a school where somehow they'd be made to feel sad? H: Yeah. And I mean, like the only I think the only way we were able to even celebrate our own culture was just at home. And I feel like that's the reason why I felt like that–that, you know, if it's a home, I can't really show it to the world. H”: But yeah, I think now that I think about, I think it was my environment that most definitely impacted that. M: Yeah. I have to leave in a minute-and-a-half, but let me get these two things out before I do. One, if you have not read Richard Rodriguez, Hunger of Memory… H: I think that's the, the author. M: In some ways his experience sounds a lot like yours. Yeah. His first memoir was called Hunger of Memory. And there's an essay in that called something like aria. Blah, blah, blah, blah. You should totally check that out. H: Yes, thanks. M: A lot like yours, except it sounds like you grew beyond it and maybe he never did. H: I read his essay “The Scholarship Boy” one and it was kind of like, oh, so you never acknowledged who he was? I think I think that's most definitely inspired me. Even though I know it was kind of he never really like how you said “went past it”. It still made me want to acknowledge at least like when I was writing the essay. M: Well, and he's a brilliant writer and he's been embraced, in part. He's embraced by Anglo-America precisely because he's such a strong voice for assimilation. H: Yeah. M: But it's interesting like I can't help feeling like his environment molded him so completely that he could not– H: He could not go back to it. M: But I also wanted to ask quickly before I leave. so I really do have to go. But where are your parents from and like, when did they get here and what were the circumstances? Can you give me the short version? H: I think both of them were raised in Durango, Mexico. I don't know exactly where they were born that I need to ask. I should have asked him that. H: I think they may have came…my dad. I don't know for sure. I think he may came like around the eighties, maybe nineties. My mom for sure came right after my little brother was my older brother was born. So it was like 1999. M: Were they married already? H: Yeah, I think they were married. They were married. And then after–after my older brother was born, when he turned one years or one year old, they moved to Kansas City. H: I don't remember what the circumstances were, but I do think that it was mostly like better opportunities in the United States. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Hugo Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Durango, Mexico to Kansas City, Kansas. Description An account of the resource Hugo grew up in Kansas City and his parents are from Durango, Mexico. In this interview, he talks about his experience with his Latinx identity, his gratitude for his parents, and how he is passionate about storytelling in many different forms. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1990s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Kansas City, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_2w1u03s8" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_2w1u03s8/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Hugo (1).MP4"></iframe> Culture Differences Education Identity Kansas City Language Mexico Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Radhia Abdirahman Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jenna (pseudonymn) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jenna (pseudonym) Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Somlia to Minneapolis, Minnesota Description An account of the resource Jenna grew up in Somalia surrounded by her parents and six siblings. She was encouraged to seek an education at a young age and learned Arabic, French, English alongside her native language. Jenna was the last group of students to graduate from high school before the Somali civil war. Jenna also speaks about the concept of the extended family. Jenna arrived in the Kansas and Missouri area after her sister was accepted into UMKC’s dental school. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2000s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Minneapolis, Minnesota Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_3z7h60w2" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_3z7h60w2/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Jenna (pseudonymn) Interview Trimmed"></iframe> Community Discrimination Education Language Minnesota Somalia Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Marta Caminero-Santangelo Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jesse Language of Interview English Format Video, audio only, text only Video Current City of Residence Where in Kansas or Missouri the Interviewee currently lives Kansas City, Kansas Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound Jesse (J) Marta (M) J: Okay. Well, let's see. My mother's side of the family is my grandfather…Her dad was already living here in the United States. He had came [sic] from New Mexico. He would actually because my grandfather was very dark-skinned. I've had a lot of Indian in him. He was an extra in silent movies as an Indian back into movies that before they were talking. They were the silent movies. J: He came up with a friend, Robinson, to Kansas City, Kansas for more work. And he found work with Griffin Wheel Company and that’s the company that makes railroad wheels and boxcars. J: And he had a home in Argentine, on the what's considered the south side of the tracks. And at that time, it was all Anglos on that side. And my grandfather was the first Latino to own a house on the south side of the railroad track and never did get the full story on that, how that happened. J: [Coughs] But anyway, again, I'm sure Alice Robinson is one that helped him with that. J: Then my great uncle Salvador came up from Mexico as a young man. He swam the [Rio Grande] river, he made his way to Kansas City, found a job with the Santa Fe Railroad as a painter and met my grandfather somehow or another, and lived with my grandfather for two years. J: After two years he returned to Mexico to return was my grandmother's Brunelda, my great uncle Leo and my great grandmother Paula. And so they came to live in that house. J: And the story goes from my uncles that because Grandpa Rico, who was 33 at a time allowed Salvador to live there said, you can marry my sister, who was at that time only 15 years old. J: So they had their first child, Uncle John, when she was 16. Mother came along four years later. Uncle Bob came along four years later. And Martin came for your later. Uncle Joe came four years later and uncle Frank came three years later. J: My uncle contended that my grandmother would only let him [the grandfather] sleep with her once every four years. M: [chuckles] J: So that’s the way the story goes. J: The house they lived in had a living room, two bedrooms, a bath, and a kitchen. So all the men slept in one room and all the women slept in another room. J: My grandfather also at this time, besides working at Griffin Wheel, was the neighborhood plumber. So him [sic] and his friend Chenel, who lived across the street–and by the way, I'm gonna get a hold of Chennel’s great granddaughter and we're going to be able to contact with her. Her name is Bea Madrigal. But that's a little later. J: Anyway, grandfather was also a bootlegger, which my uncle said led to his death when he died of cirrhosis of the liver. J: Grandpa Rico died the day they landed on the moon in 1969. So it’s always an easy date to remember when he passed. J: But anyway, getting back to the thirties, in the late thirties and early forties, my mother tells the story of grandpa being a bootlegger at Christmas time. They had men–Coop Doors [?] came by and they would sing songs and carols. J: And so my grandmother always told grandpa, take the boys out a bottle of gin. I don't know what it was. They may have been anyway. Excuse me. J: They took the bottle out and was passing it around, somebody slipped and dropped the bottle. It broke and all and there was snow on the ground. J: She said All these men were on the ground, eating the yellow snow, where the booze had fallen into. J: So that being said, that was just one story about grandpa and what he did, he was very industrious. J: My grandmother was very active in the church. But the only time I saw Grandpa go to church was for somebody's funeral or for a wedding. Otherwise, Grandpa didn't go to church. Never to get the full story on that. So a lot of times things happened and we weren't always keen to what was going on. J: Fast-forward to 1947. My mother is 17 year old girl. My father came up from Mexico on a borrowed passport. Somebody that you'd looked very familiar with. J: Dad was actually in the seminary at this time, and was studying to be a priest. He was the 13th child out of 13. And my grandmother said one of her son was going to be a priest. And because he was the last one, he got elected to the job. J: Well, he came up on a vacation, met my mother, and their dating story begins with him living next door in a boarding house. And because my grandmother was very strict, [my father] was not allowed to talk to my mother. So in order to communicate with her, he wrote to her own penny postcards. J: The mailman, after a couple of months of this and seeing how he would pick up a postcard from one house to take to the post office to get that back to the house. Next door decided that he would just hand the card over without having my dad having to put the penny on. J: So once in a while they could talk across the fence when grandma was sitting up in the patio and what and so then dad went over to ask grandpa for mom’s hand and my grandfather told him You have to go back to Mexico and you have to come back with your proper papers. J: He did not want her. How should I say? And I guess he wanted to protect her. J: So my dad goes back to Mexico, quits the seminary. And I'm sure that went over real well with my grandparents [sarcastically]. J: But anyhow, he came back to [the] United States, courted my mother for two more years. J: And then this time dad always told me when he went to take mother out on a date–grandma always went, he had to take two boxes of candy or two bouquets of flowers for grandma and my mother. J: There was one time a few weeks before the wedding, dad and the taxi hip pulled up to take them. They were going dancing at the Pla-Mor Ballroom. And my grandmother was sick and came to the door and told grandpa, my toe, my dad, you cannot you cannot go because I'm sick. J: And my grandfather said no, it's okay. Let her go. So that was the first day they had unchaperoned and it was right before they're married. But grandma Rooney, raise, holy hell. J: Then back forward again because of the way my grandmother came back across to the United States, they decided that my dad would, my mother were [sic] gonna get married in Mexico. My grandmother did not go. My grandfather did not go. J: There was a lady down the street, Luis Valdez, and she was kind of like a sponsor. And so she was [my] mother’s chaperone. And so they went to Mexico, they got married and returned home. They were married June 15th; nine months and two days later my sister was born on March the 17th. My sister always teased mom about how close that was, but mother would be embarrassed. J: So that was March 1950. I came along in May of ’51. My sister Suzy came along in December of ’52. And then my sister Christie was August of ’54. J: So within five years she [my mom] had four little ones. J: Mother was a stay at home mom. She did not go–she did not work or anything. J: At that time my dad worked two jobs. He worked at the Ag. [agriculture] plant during the summertime and they would lay him off usually right after Thanksgiving until sometime in February. So he had two three months during the year where he worked one job. And the other jobs were with the railroad; he worked for the Kansas City terminal for 17 years. J: Fast-forward to 1967 and Johnson–President Johnson cut the mail off of the train and put ’em on the airplane. And that's when air mail with it. And that pretty much broke the Kansas City terminal’s back. So dad got laid off and he got laid off. J: Mother–they decided mother was going to work. Mother had a highschool education. J: We [my mother and I] went to the same high school, Argentine that Tess [?] was talking about. J: My mother was 36 years-old. She walked up the half a block up to the main street to get on the bus. And she was scared to death because this was the first time she was going downtown alone. J: Any other time she go in downtown if my mother was with her my aunt or us kids. And so now she had to work and get out in the real-world. And so she went to work for the SOC Security Administration. J: In the meantime, dad got a job with the Santa Fe Railroad. Then mother worked in the daytime, dad worked at night. And that way there was always somebody home with the kids because by this time there were six of us in the house. My older sister would have been. 17 and a junior. I was a sophomore, 16 and then going down the list. J: So that was a–I know a changing time in the whole world at this time, women were getting to be more independent and not to where your job is at home with the kids. You don't need to be out and whatnot. J: So I know mom and dad struggled with some of that because one's mother went to work and seeing how other people lived. And how women got to do things on their own, so on and so forth. Where they've got to be a little bit of a cultural battle. J: Not only were we growing up, but my parents were growing up at this time. This had to be something that was most unusual. J: Then it was about this time that Tess and I were walking home from school. And I told you the rain story where it rained and my house was close [by]. So we said let's go inside. Well, let's get on the porch and not even inside the house. Just on the porch. You get out of the weather. J: And my dad came out and asked if she was hungry because that was the way my folks were all their lives. Even after they retired, I would come over to the house and the first thing they're doing is reaching for a pan to put on the stove to heat something up. And I said, I didn’t come over to eat, I came over to visit. J: But anyway, Tess came over and she was a quote, unquote, first white woman, white girl that ever came into the house. So that was a little bit of a culture shock for me, I guess. J: I mean, we were pretty well–I don't want to use the word segregated but I think we were just–our community was separate from everybody else. Everybody else had a separate community. J: In the time that we lived on 24th street, when I was much younger, in kindergarten, at the other end of the block with an all-black school called Lincoln grade school. J: The black people lived up on the hill about three blocks from the school. And they walked by our half every day to school and walked home every day. Never had any issues with them. We had a black lady living next door with her son and I didn't think anything of it. J: You know, it would just they would–just people living like we were. J: We had a fireman–he lived on the end of the block and he was a black man. And then on the other side we had two other Mexican families that lived... J: So we were just people. J: We didn't didn't know anything. I didn't know anything about segregation. I had not witnessed anything. J: I do have some friends that were my age. And they told me that they had gone to a drugstore to get a soda. A soda from the soda fountain. And the guy says, I'll fix it for you, but it'll be in a cup and you will have to take it outside to go. Meaning [that[ they could not sit at the counter and drink [the soda]. J: I did not get exposed to any of that; I guess I was–was blessed in that. J: About this time I got out in the world of work and I went to work at the Kansas City Star and I worked on the weekends at nights, stuffing newspapers. J: On, on Saturday night, they would print the front page, the wanteds, the sports, and the classified. Everything else was all printed ahead of time. So you would always have to put the two sections, the paper together. J: Working there, I was exposed to a lot more diverse group. There were probably 60% black there, 30% Hispanic, and about 20% white. J: And this was, I worked in the period there in 1968 after Martin Luther King had got assassinated. And they were having the riots all over. Our job normally work from ten at night to five in the morning, but because of the curfew, we had to be there at 06:00 and sit in a warehouse and wait five hour, we go to work–work. And then after the curfew after the work basket or warehouse, wait till 06:00 because we couldn't be out 6-6. J: All the brothers–and this is what we used to refer to when we were growing up. When we talked about the brothers, we were talking about Black people. We never said we never used the term Black. J: Then back in high school, if you were talking about Ivan or Melvin, the Black friends, you were talking about the brothers. J: Amen. The brothers told us, when we go home, the hang white sheet on your front porch and nothing will happen to your house. Because this was a time when they were burning houses and they were riding over density very, we're very fortunate that in Kansas City, Kansas nothing happened. J: When I hung a white sheet on the front porch coming home. Mom said, What are you doing? The brothers said if we don't want to have our house burned down, hang up a white sheet, and they know that you would be okay here though she let it go because you don't make something up like that. J: So that means I'm sad. I was over there. And during this thing, it was the first time that I heard somebody knew the N word. And even to this day, I cannot understand how they can sing songs and use the “n” word to me that just sets the hair on the back of my neck. That's an alarm. J: I heard somebody used “n” word and I saw this guy got beat within an inch of his life. I've never seen anyone beat like that and I hope I never see it beating like that again. J: The guy came back to work two weeks later you've been attained with bandage up, but he came back to work and I don't think he used the “n” word again. I think he learned his lesson. J: So that was 1968, and I graduated high school in 1969. I started dating a girl that year, she was two years younger than I was, and she was a white girl. Her name was Lorraine Perkins. Ended up being my first wife. J: But the first time I went over to pick her up, her mother said I couldn't see her daughter. So we did not go out at night. So we figured out the next week when it was time to go out for the football game and the mixer afterward. I would have one of my friends, either Kelly or Chris, call Lorraine and say, Are you ready to go? And they would pick her up, drive to block. She would get out of one car and get my car and off we go. J: My wife was a change of life baby. Her mother was very old at this time. You would probably I want to say Oh, she was in her 60s. I'm 69. I'm not old, okay. So anyway, that's how we dated for a couple of years until she graduated high school. We got married in 1972. We had two children, and we divorced in 1983 because we got married too young. Okay. J: I know a lot of the issues, a lot of time to see my I felt insecure when she'd go over to the house and they would start talking in Spanish. And she would always think they're talking about me. She would ask me later on. Were they talking about me? No. They're just more comfortable speaking in Spanish about some things. J: And I told her when we were younger a lot of times that they didn't want us to know what they were talking about. They would speak in Spanish because I was a boy. I was out in the street. My sisters were at home, so they learned the language before I did. J: I also had a hearing issue growing up. I had to wear a hearing aid for a while and I learned to read lips. J: The girls in high school told me at the first [high school] reunion and they said, you know, oh, I always liked talking to you because you always look at me in the face and not be staring at my breasts. And I had to explain to them. Well, I kinda peeked every now and then, but I had to look at you–at your eye [sic] because I was reading your lips or I would make sure to hear what you say. J: Now, you can go ahead and laugh, but it's true. And you know, you’re a boy, you’re a boy--you know had that hormone raging and everything J: So anyhow and also had a lot of the girls well, I won't say a lot. I had two, three different girls told [sic] me–and it was kinda weird because that first one they said–you know, I wanted to go out with you in high school, but my dad wouldn't allow it. But if I saw any discrimination, that's where it was. Okay. J: And I am on the pale side. I'm not really a dark Mexican like my friend Mario is my grandma. My sister's a little on the dark side. They always call her “the Laylita” because she was a dark one. My other sister would red hair and she was like I was on my dad's side, family. J: Even though my cousin Gracie explained to me that she went back to Mexico and started looking up the [family] tree and somewhere back up the line we had a great, great, great grandmother who was a Belgian landowner. They lived, they worked for the landowner. She said, one of our siblings is half Belgium, and then they just dropped down not filling but one of our great grandparents. J: But I don't know how much truth there, but she went back and she was able to find a paper on it. There’s that. J: See, what do I leave off? And then I married again. And well, actually this is the funny part. J: I dated my current wife for about three years and then we parted because we were both too headstrong for each other. Okay. We knew that it probably wouldn't work, so we went off and didn't see each other for ten years–twelve years. We both married somebody else. We both divorce–divorced that second person ran into each other again. My daughter Rachel happened and now 24 years later here we are still married. J: Though we are actively been together for almost 30 years with a break in there. So little irony in my story, but what goes around comes around. J: I went to work for the Santa Fe Railroad… J: Well, I went to junior college, like I said, right out of high school and that's when I did the Che Guevara thing and I was independent. J: I mean–I'm going to college. My first semester. I felt like my mind got opened up that I didn't see or I didn't listen in high school. J: There was…high school was high school and then you get to college and you get to these classes… J: I had a gentleman that taught American government. All he had was a desk, a microphone, and a pencil, and he would sit and lecture you for 45-minutes. And he would just start writing and you're hearing all these things. But I couldn't believe it. J: I had a psychology teacher who, she must have changed her name, because she had gotten married. Anne Brown, I believe her name when she showed us her arm with her number [Jesse points to his forearm]. She had been in Germany. She had been in one of the prison camps. J: Prison camp? What are you talking about? I don't know, nothing. So then you go and you research in the library and you read this stuff and we say all that was going on? J: Okay, so my favorite teacher was Henry Louis and he was a history teacher. He is passed now and I could not believe when he told me that the Civil War was not fought to free the slaves. J: He said no, the Civil War was not fought to free the slaves, they ended up getting freed. But the Civil War was fought because of money. You know, everything rolls down to the money. J: So anyhow, we got educated through there after a year-and-a-half looking at going to a four-year college. I was looking at being a high school history teacher and football and track coach. J: And then I started investigating to see how much money they made and how much money it [college] was going to cost–and this was before I got married to..and I thought there's no way swing it. J: There was not [sic] scholarships available like right now. Much easier to get to–to get help to go to college where there wasn't that much. J: I think if I would have put my foot down and really insisted on it, I probably could have done it but there was–I'd seen my guys, my buddies were already working at the railroad making good money. I mean, almost as much as the teacher was making at this time. J: I thought, How can I pass that up? J: You know, I shouldn't be at my–my folks still had four [children] living at home. I couldn't…and they were going to parochial school. So that was already costing [them] money. J: I was fortunate to go to parochial school until the sixth grade. And because of my hearing problem, I never did get along with enough [people] for whatever reason. J: I thought when I was real young boy, I was going to be a priest. I really wanted to be a priest. I don't know, maybe because my dad was lined up to be that way. I don't know, but then I got to be a teenager and the priesthood kind of slipped behind me. J: So anyhow, fast-forward, back to going to work for the Santa Fe [Railroad]. I started working at the clerk cleaning up box cars, checking numbers on the cars and the trains when they came in, I had to walk the track. J: And after one year, they…there was a separate department of the clerk’s department that was called the SFRD, the Santa Fe Refrigeration Department. They went to my boss and said, we need to hire someone and within the railroad… J: The first year that I worked, I was extra bored, you never knew what day you're going to work. You never knew how long you were going to work. Some of you had real good paychecks, some months you didn't. It depended on your work. J: Anyway, these guys were going to offer me a regular job with set days off. So my boss told them “hire this guy.” Well, they looked at me and my hair was about as long as yours was maybe a little bit longer [past the shoulder]. And the guy said, no, we don't want no hippie. So they hired two other people. Neither one of them worked out after a couple of months. So then they came back in that third guy again, he said, “Where’s your man? You want somebody to work and come to work there.” J: They finally hired me reluctantly. J: I ended up becoming a supervisor in that department, I had that job for 12 years until they've done away with it. Then after they've done away with that job, I had to go back to the clerical forces, for about two years and then I became a supervisor in the transportation department or rather the yardmaster. J: The yardmaster is the one that runs the yard. A couple of takes to make a train with which one separates them and whatnot. J: I was the second Latino yardmaster to work in Kansas City. J: At that time, they were looking–the railroad was looking to integrate departments. In other words, they wanted clerks to become the yardmasters; they wanted boiler men to become yard masters; they wanted foreman to become yardmasters. J: They wanted a cross-section because they figured if you know your part job already, you can and then you go to work the new job. You can see this part can help you. We can cut corners, changes. J: I won't say that I would breakin’ the line as far as becoming a supervisor in Kansas City because New Mexico, California, Texas, Arizona, they had Indians [Indigenous people] and Mexicans that were working as supervisors all over the place. J: The Santa Fe was very good about that [diversity efforts]. J: When I went to my first regional supervisor meetings and I looked and I see all my brothers, all the Latinos, Rodriguezes, Santanas, Camachos, and everything. What do you do? Well, you are? So am I. J: But we took pride in that and we did good. The Santa Fe was an excellent place to work. It got hard sometimes any job, but that gets far. Not easy. But for the most part, I was blessed to go to work there. J: In fact, to tell you how I got hired at the Santa Fe, I had been working at a steel plant and an ice plant, withdrew manual labor jobs. Okay. I had applications at the electric company, TWA, the gas company–four or five different places. I had applications. I've been waiting for the phone ring for them to come and get me the phone number rang, whether it because I had long hair like you. J: So then my dad says, “Come on, I'm going to take you to the railroad work.” J: I said I didn't wanna I didn't want to disappoint him. I thought to myself, okay. Let's go see what it's all about. J: We're walking up the steps to talk to the boss and held his hand and I said, Look, I'm only going to work here to give me a good job. Well, 40 years later I got my good job when I got to retire. So sometimes dad knows what's best for you. J: So I worked 40 years…My last ten years…Well, actually, the last 14 years was the BNSF [Railway company] and they also had a diversity department. And because my boss knew that I would be good with talking with people and whatnot. He thought that that would be a great department for me to go into. And that was working my regular job and having the goals, attending meetings. J: What we were was a link to get people to communicate with each other. J: One of the first issues that we came into was gender identity. This is 1996. Okay? We had, and I never did find out whether it was a fellow that turned into a gal, or a gal that turned into a fellow. But he was working in Amarillo. And the man did not want him in the men's restroom and the women and did not want him in the women's restroom. Okay. So then they had to create an extra bathroom that was for anyone to use. J: So you talk about an eye-opener situation like that. J: So [I] worked there. J: Then the other issue that we had, one that really dealt with me was the use of the word master. Because you had train masters, which is what I was, You had roadmasters. Who are the-the gentleman that took care of the track. And then you had master foremen who took care of the car department. J: So sometimes I think some of the employees were using that as a ploy to not work or to slow down production or whatever. But they were the word “master.” J: I always told him that I thought I went to master craftsman and not a master slave owner. You guys don't work for me, a slave, you guys are getting paid a very good salary. I don’t whip you, i don't beat you; I don't own you, you know, you go home from work every day lives. J: But it was hard to get across about being a master. And that's where some of the issues that are happening today is because of master-slave thing. So they never did throw out that term to my knowledge, I think there's still being used as train masters and yard master. J: Because that was a very that was a very important thing to be. My position. I am a year-and-a-half out of college and I'm working a supervisor job, but I'm one of the highest paid employees down there. J: I took pride in my job. I had–I had people that would come and work for me that had many years seniority and they could work someplace else and work in the daytime. But they chose to work with me afternoons and nights because they were comfortable with the way I did things. J: They knew what they had to do to get things done. And a lot [of] time I led by letting them lead. I let them show me. You got a better way to do this. Tell me I'm all ears. And so they would explain how to make a movie and I say go for it until I got a lot of respect for the truth that way. J: So I don’t think that I was ever one that they said, Oh, you got to work for that guy because we had those guys/ Oh you are going to go work over here for this guy. But when they would find out I would work and they say, Okay, we're going to have a good day. Suggests, is that fair? J: So I guess that's about it. J: I've retired after that. J: I started working [in] food kitchens. I help out where I can with that. J: I've been awarded a volunteer of the year. I don't know if I told you this or not. I'm going to receive a monetary award and a plaque for everything that I've done. J: The monetary award I wanted to put into the food kitchen fund to help continue feeding people and they will not allow it to happen. They said because you are a volunteer, this is something for you. You buy your new computer, buy a set of tires, you buy a plane ticket, whatever you wanna do. J: Well, my favorite thing is to play golf, and I've never had a better set of clubs. But there you go. In the next couple of weeks I'm gonna get a brand new set of golf clubs and I told my wife, [this would] probably be my last set. She said, Yes, that's what you told me the last time or the time before or fifth time, it doesn't come out of my pocket. Okay. J: I do the food kitchen work and it involved–when the kitchen was open…it involved about 18 different volunteers doing a separate job. We would feed 350 to 500 people. They would get a–two slices of bread and butter. They would get some kind of a dessert–donut or whatnot. They would get a choice of a salad or coleslaw, or something like that. They would get a choice of kind of some kind of fruit–apple, orange or banana. Then they would get either green beans or corn. Usually some sopa. They really love when we make it right. Okay, and then they would have a main course. Sometimes it would be Sloppy Joes, sometimes it will be pulled pork. Once in a while, it would be chicken, and then they will have to drink and milk. J: So it takes a little while to get all that organized. And my skills at the railroad from being an organizer and being a planner and looking up two, three things ahead, help out with that. And it really doesn't take up a lot of time. J: A lot of people think, oh, you spent a lot of time doing it. After all, it’s one day a month and one day I had to pick up the fly from there and that was a couple of hours. Another day, I had to go shopping so it was three or four hours. And then the day we actually cook was two to three hours. Then the day that we serve was about a five-hour day. So all-in-all maybe 20 hours in a month to do this. J: But this year with the pandemic, we're blessed with an organization called Operation Barbecue. They barbecue–that is another thing that I do. I'm a judge for the American [unknown] Kansas City KCBS society for barbecue meats. So I know what good meat tastes like, good barbecue. I know what bad barbeque tastes like, too. Some of these people that think they could cook can not cook. J: But anyway, this Operation Barbecue Relief, they organized when they had the first hurricane a couple of years ago. And these were barbecue enthusiasts, getting donations from different places. And they would get donations from different places, cook the food and feed–feed the people that were at the disaster area. J: Okay. Well, good friend, Chris Hillier [?], who is probably a big part of this second part of my volunteer, and really all the kudos should go to him because he is such great help. Through him, we were able to get food from the Operation Barbecue Relief. And so on Friday, we were serving meals. We had–they would give us to meet and decides and the utensils, the pan to put them in. But we haven't organized and put them together. I already had food kitchen people who knew exactly what to do and we started passing out meals, about 150 meals for families of four. We did that for about six weeks. And then Operation Barbecue Relief, because they had no place to go and cook the food because of the pandemic, they had to end that program. J: And then a couple of three weeks later, Pete’s Garden, which is another organization that goes around. They get grants and they collect food from different venues that doesn't get eaten. Like the hotel might have a conference there and they'll feed food and then they got food in the kitchen that didn't serve because people don't eat as much now as they used to. They always have extra so then they [Pete’s Garden] would get that food so it doesn't go to waste. And it would come to us. And again, we would put together and we would pass that out. J: During this time, we had St. Michael's Parish in Leawood. And we had the Church of the Ascension in Overland Park because every Wednesday they were supplying groceries, the families of our parish because the kids were getting school lunches during the week, Mondays and Wednesdays, they would get a lunch and a breakfast and so on. J: When we were getting the groceries, we would sort them out because some people would give you two cases of green beans and other people would be– somebody would give you eight loaves of bread. But we would have to break down the groceries. We make them be like shopping. There we go. And so we were passed from that out. And that lasted for about six weeks. We were doing that every Wednesday. J: Then. When that [unknown] quit, then Chris Pound, Catholic charity and through their program, we were able to give away boxes of produce every Friday–just ended last Friday. I don't know what I'm gonna do this Friday because I'm not going to be there. But these boxes of produce had cucumbers, had cabbage, had lettuce, had bags of apples, bags of oranges, celery, strawberries, cantaloupe. J: And so we were passing those out to the parish and because we had more than enough for the parish, we opened it up to the community, the Argentine community. J: I had two Facebook pages that I would put on there and I would say, come and get free food. No questions asked. The people would call and say, well, you know, I got a job. I said we're not asking any questions. If you want the food, you need the food and it's gonna go to good use, you come and get it.We're going to get it for somebody else. It's not for you. Come and get us. J: We wanted–we wanted to see what helped people and that's what we did. J: So through all that–through all that…that's how all this happened during the summer. I don't know that they give you the numbers on what we'd done. But it's the law and what somebody is not around it, it can be overwhelming. But to me, it was just another day in paradise J: Alright, so that's where I'm at today. I continue to do the soup food kitchen. We are in the process and now we have to make sack lunches because the kitchen is actually closed. The city allows us to hand out fact lunches out the back door. And because of this situation, they had jumped up. I think the most we have been is 862 packed lunches. We make about 800 sack lunches. And then any sandwiches or any apples or anything that would have leftover. We've taken back up to the school. We take back up to the food until they can use them tomorrow or the next day whenever it's needed. J: Hello…Still there? M: Yeah. I'm here. J: Okay, so I don't know if you have any… M: I have some questions. [To a male in the background of the screen: “Okay. Wait until I'm done, please. You can eat all that you want. Wait ‘till I’m done.] M: This is teenagers at home because they're not going to school. They're staying here for school. M: So, Jesse, did you live in Argentine, [Kansas City, Kansas], your whole life? J: Yes. I live while I move when I was married to my wife, I moved to Overland Park and I lived out there for about five years. And then I moved back to Argentina. And then two years ago, I moved to Lenexa. I sold my house. We downsized. We had a three-bedroom house, two car garage; it was just too big. J: And at that time I had not had what I had had my knee surgery but it would get too hard for me to maintain cut my flashing [unknown]anything. So we were just looking at downsize because we did not need that space. J: We put the house up for sale and sold like two days later. And the people next door and then combine it. The people across the street wanted at first, their loan didn't go through. We put the sign back out and the people next door came, bought it and they bought it. J: I don't know how many people were living. Next door. They had probably ten or 12 people living in a three-bedroom house. But when my house became available, they jumped all over it–two sisters bought it. J: I drove by a couple of times, a month or so later. My driveway could hold eight cars. There was eight cars in the driveway. I don't know how many people live in there. M: If I say the word home? What do you think of? What does the word mean to you? J: Home is where…My home is a parking lot. Vaguer [?] park. Oh, man, that home is the one that I told you about was Ted. I grew up there from the timeout 12 to 18 because over my formative years–that went home. That's where I live. M: Anything you would want for kids or other, you know, younger generation Latinos in particular, understand about your experience that maybe you think they don't understand right now? J: [coughs] No. I don't know if they understand how you have to work to get to where you want to be. What I've told you about my first job with the railroad. I was working from 3 o’clock in the afternoon to 11 o’clock at night. I had Tuesdays and Wednesdays off. J: Do you know how much [sic] social events I've missed? I'm talking about weddings. I'm talking about parties. Oh, we’re having a party Saturday. I'll be there after 11:00, you know, being the second way. Then you have to decide. They want a lot of people that I grew up with, they only went on to work eight to five was Saturday and Sundays off. No more hours. Well, those hours are not there. J: And I think it's even harder. Now with the way that education is that the pandemic has proven that by all these people working from home. I've got three blocks down the street–big office building before the pandemic that parking lot was always full. Now you drive by and you’re lucky to see a car there because all these people are doing their work from home now. You’ve got to have the education to do that. J: But there are good jobs out there. If you want to be a fireman, if you want to be a policeman, if you want to work for the telephone company, you want to work as a nurse, or anything in the hospital. You just think about it. Oh, I got sick at 4 o’clock in the morning. I'm going to the hospital. Look at those people [that] are working. They're working at nighttime. You have to understand that we're 24/7 mentality workplace. J: But then there was kinda hard it was hard, you know, my wife would be going to a party. Where’s your husband? Oh, well, my husband's working. So it was Tuesday, Wednesday nights when we went out. It was never crowded. We went to the movies. It was never crowded. You know, it hadn't advantages and disadvantages. You work those kind of hours. You can sleep when you want. J: I couldn't play any sports back then because everything happened on Saturday and Sunday until we found they were daylight things that we could play; we would get off work and then we could go and play ball at 9 o’clock in the morning. J: And then that's when I took up golf because that was something all you needed was a little sunshine to play that. J: So I would think that the hard–the hardest things for these kids, they have to understand everything and not an eight to four ob. Saturdays and Sundays off. J: I mean, that's the normal world. I can't tell you how many World Series games I missed. I was a big big pastime. Would listen to the radio, link them to buy a baseball, baseball game, World Series, football game, you know, whatever was everything radio, you had to visualize it in your mind because you couldn't see it on TV. Somebody say, oh man, we're going over to so and so's house. He could have put the TV up outside. We can drink beer and have hot dogs, you coming over? You know, they've just yeah. You [could] say I don't want to work. I'm gonna go–I'm gonna go probably why he going to pay your pay your bills? What do you do? You know? J: I want to get back to college. I want to get back and for nothing now just take more history classes, more. I can get into discussion, maybe some philosophy. Because you're older, you're wiser. You're not in a hurry for this class to get done. You can go do it. You gotta go through just the maturity thing and going to school. Just unbelievable. J: I mean, I know one kind of my brother-in-law and my sister were going through their differences and my nieces were asking me–and they were teenagers–they said, Uncle Jesse, yes, I can’t understand how a mom and dad are acting. I can't believe how things are and I told him, “Well, honey, you got to remember just because you get older, doesn't mean you grow up.” J: So it's something that I've always tried to remember. You know, the same thing which my boys would say, “Dad so and so team was supposed to and I said, yeah, just because you're supposed to win doesn't mean you're going to, well, there are disappointments in life that you have to deal with. There are situations that are not all hunky-dory. J: So it's just like what's going on right now. This thing in Louisville where the policeman got off killing a woman and everybody riding. Well, there's a way to explain your side of the story. I think without having to do the riots J: Maybe because I'm older, I'm thinking that so much hot blood is out there to try to make things happen your way. But it’s supposed to be that way–supposed to negotiate [coughs]. J: It’s supposed to be let’s share our thoughts. Just because you don't think the way I do doesn't mean I'm gonna I'm gonna, you're not gonna be my friends. J: It's so hard to see some of my friends on Facebook, how they feel about different things and all I can do is shake my hand. You know, that's a nice thing to do, is take your head. J: I've opened it with the death of Ruth [?] that a lot of people are gonna get out and vote. J: That's another thing that I do. I work the lesson. [chewing a crunchy snack] I've been a supervising judge in Wyandotte County for eight years. And then I've been supervising judge out here in Johnson County. J: Now what that means is I'm in charge of one polling thing. I answer all the questions, deal with everything that goes on in there. And we were very, very busy for the last primary. And I know that when the general election comes up in six weeks, that it's gonna be a very hectic day. J: I do hope that we don't have any issues. I'm very fortunate that I'm in a very affluent neighborhood in Johnson County. There are very few minorities but we do have them. There are no poor people [that] come to vote, okay? If anybody comes in rags it is because they choose to dress in rags. You know how the kids dress. Everyone that comes [to vote[ is very affluent. They're upper middle-class is how it is. Put it. And I'm sure that there are places even higher class and that in Johnson County. J: But I'm in western Shawnee and I don't have any poor people. I don't have any farmers. There are some places where you worked and Wyandotte County, we could see where people work in all of these people to come now, you can, you can, you know… J: One way of noticing is the ladies come in, they come and sign and they got rocks on your hand. And I'm not a jeweler, but I know that that’s not cheap, so they’re blessed. J: And so most people come and you're not going to argue with you about anything. They'll have a question. All my workers are excellent workers. Nobody looks at me like because I'm a Mexican or anything. J: There have been, in fact, where I'm at now–there was only maybe six people that I knew. When I worked at Wyandotte County and I worked at Argentine, I knew everybody that came in there. I had so many older ladies come up and give me a hug. I would give–the men would all come and say,they were so proud to see one of their [own] doing the work. Oh, Tucci–that’s my childhood nickname when somebody calls me Tucci, that means they know me from way back. Okay. Oh, tricky. J: And even now to this day, I probably had three phone calls from somebody in Wyandotte County asking questions about the voting. Do I need to vote now? Do I need to go? Somebody called and asked me about the primary and Kansas. Do I need to go vote in that? I said no, that's already been decided. You want to go vote? You can. And this lady was in her eighties. She wanted to know that you need to get out from there. I said “no, you're okay.” J: I don't mind helping out civic duty. I can't be a history teacher. I can still do my civic duty. So I help out. J: Very fortunate I got a great wife that's understanding that lets me go and do whatever I want to go do because she knows I'm helping people. J: My favorite thing that she says her sister was asking her. And I heard this on a speakerphone. Well, where’s Jesse at? “Oh, he's out feeding the world.” So that, you know what she's asked her what she considered when I'm doing what I do, my civic duty. So that makes me feel good that she knows that I'm doing that. I guess that's about it unless you have more questions. M: Well, Jesse, that's a really rich story. There's so much there's so much history in your story. You kind of are a history teacher. J: Yeah. Basically how I break things and break things down. It is by the history–thing that you can relate to it. I've talked about Martin Luther King, talked about landing on the moon. We've talked about Daegu where? So yeah, these are these are–things that are big impacts on my life. M: You can tell–you kinda mark your story by what was going on in the world and in the country. J: Now I have a lady. I can introduce you to her name is Bea Ramirez. Her maiden name is Madrigal. Her grandfather or her step grandfather, Channel [?] was my grandpa’s buddy. They lived across the street from each other and they were both plumbers. They were together like Mutt and Jeff [?]? J: So she is educated, she went to Pitt State and got her CPA. J: I will get a hold of her and I will send an email with her email and text. And then you guys can figure out how to get together and do this Zoom, call me. Let me tell you–Bea Ramirez can talk. M: I like, Okay. That's great. The more information the better. M: Hey, Jesse. So were you first-generation your family when you went to college? When you went to community college? J: Yes. I was a first first one to go to college. My brother…my sister went to work. My older sister, my two other sisters got married. And then my brother number four, he graduated from well, he went to KU..but he graduated Benedictine..He is the Fire Chief in Corpus Christi [Texas]. J: So, [he is called] Chief Rocha down there. So I go down there in January when the weather gets cold here, I go down there to play golf. Every time we go to the restaurant, Chief Rocha, I got your table over here. We would go someplace and there are ten people waiting to eat, they see him and say “Chief Rocha.” We'll walk around and everybody–kinda embarrassing at first. That way, It's pretty cool. He gets his recognition. M: Yeah. J: He likes that. J: And my younger brother went through Baker University and he worked for the city of Kansas City, Kansas he’s in procurement and left for another job. So– M: Did you ever wish that you grew up in Texas or California or something? Or were you happy growing up in Kansas? J: I grew up in a village. I had people–I had love all around me. I didn't I didn't see very much violence. Yeah. We had our fight as kids and whatnot. But there was always somebody there that you could depend on. I didn't see a lot of hatred–when we heard of our first divorce when I was about 12 or 13. Oh my God, that was sacrilegious, you know. J: We had a nun who was our teacher. And then she left the nunnery, came back three years later, married with the husband. But we all thought, holy cow, how in the world could she do that? J: And that's what mom explained that they are just people–even though they become priests or they become nuns–you still have to remember that they’re people. J: When I was married, my second wife, we had a pool at the house. And one of the priests, we had two priests at that time, one of the priests was just a year older and I would come over for a beer, right. I mean, ate steak and had beer. And then he said, “How about let's jump into the pool?” So all the kids jumped into the pool and they were jumping all over him and dunking him in the water and my then wife said–look what they’re doing to the priest! J: He's having fun. He's just a guy. J: You know, my dad still had friends with priests. Here's another little story. We went to Royal Stadium, not Royal’s Stadium [?], a municipal stadium, the 22nd of Brooklyn. This would have had to have been about 1958–59. We go to the ball game. My dad, friend, Father Paul, not wearing a collar. Okay. He's dressed in a regular shirt, and I thought, well, okay, but we get to the game and it's the first inning. And here comes the beer man. And my dad stopped the beer man and said “let me have two beers.” J: He gives the beer to my priest, a beer to my dad, I see the priest take a drink of beer…and I thought to myself, we're going to hell now. But that's how naive I was at that time. You know, you have your thoughts. It can't be no priest, the perfect, you know, then you find that they’re human. M: That's interesting. I've never actually thought about…Are priests allowed to drink alcohol? Well, the Catholic Church is against that. J: He did not get inebriated that I could tell. Okay. All right. We'll have to tell you that story. J: We did have a priest at our parish, he is deceased now, and he had an alcohol problem. J: I was on the school board because… because the age differences of my kids–two times, I had an eighth-grader graduate and then a kindergartener start the next year. Okay. Now, I was on school board for over 20 years. Okay. J: We had a school board meeting. Father King. He would smash smash, and we're trying to figure out what's going to happen with the school. The school didn't have enough money to run. We don't know if we're gonna be able to pay the teachers, if no one is doing [it] for us. So I told the head nun at that time, the principal, I said “we're going to have to call the archbishop.” Something's got to happen here. That was on a Tuesday. J: Well, the next thing you know is that weekend we had a different priest saying the mass. And everybody will want to know: “Where’s Father [King] at?” And then the word got out that he went to a rehab center. So they're human. J: And this priest was a great guy. He was probably in his late seventies and my mother always said he doesn't want to be working anymore; he’s working because we had a shortage. Okay. J: He went on to be afraid for another five or six years after he dried out [?]. Not at our parish, but at another place. J: So we're all just human. M: Yeah. Jessie, thank you so much. I really love your story. I'll send you the tape back…if there's anyone else so you can think of who you want to talk to me in the two years, that would be off. M: Or do you have a phone that you can take pictures of, letters and photos like that? J: Photos of what? M: Anything you have..pictures of your kids, your family? J: Well, yeah, I've got some pictures. You see me. J: You can see some of my pictures. One thing, when I look at my picture to myself, when I was young–I'm never smiling. I don't know if I was thinking, oh, if it was going, I couldn't hear somebody say “cheese” or whatever. But you will see a lot of my pictures. I'm not smiling as a youngster. J: I did not have a bad childhood. I did have issues with one uncle that was abusive to me and he's still my uncle. I'm not upset with them or anything, all that is gone in the past; I learned how to deal with my demon. You know, a lot of people [say that] they can not deal with my demons. J: I have another uncle who I got into a lot of this history from and he always contends that my grandmother didn't love him. Okay. I had to tell him grandma didn't love anybody but Frank, Frank was the baby. I said “so, don't worry about you not getting love from your mother.” Because grandma did not give– J: And you know, when people say, Oh, you love going over to grandma's house. M: [laughs] J: Well, if I loved going to grandma's house, it was because she had the TV. We had to go pay to watch Ed Sullivan because grandfather the ban on [unknown] you got to see who did the Beatles. J: The Beatles? Who wants to say anything about bugs? I say “Grandpa, no.” We gotta watch it. And I think we got to watch it because a little mouth [?] is going to be on top of video. So he said, Okay, let's watch the Beatles. I had to go over there to watch the Beatles. We didn't have our TV. J: Oh, you know, I was 13 or 14 when we got off work telephone and then polyline…Pick up the phone if somebody were talking to put the handle with a receiver and just listen to people's conversation. Then you hear..Is there somebody on the phone..Is this? J: Kids don’t know how easy they got it… M: It's true. My daughter calls me up from college. She says, “Hey mom, you want to FaceTime?” and we have a video call. Can you imagine? Even ten years old, years ago thinking, okay, I'll be talking to my daughter who's in college. Just like this, just like a Zoom call. J: I saw somebody that had a picture of a hand-held phone and they're holding it up like a regular camera [Jesse holds out his right hand like he is going to take a picture with a flip phone] and that's it. The first-out fees. Yeah. Yeah. J: Alright. I'll send you some pictures. I'll send you the Bea Madrigal information, and then you–we’ll keep in touch. M: Yes. Thank you so much, Jesse. I appreciate it. Have a great day and a great weekend. J: You too. Bye bye. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jesse Subject The topic of the resource Oral history from Mexico to Kansas City, Kansas. Description An account of the resource Jesse’s parents are from Mexico, but he grew up in the Argentine neighborhood of Kansas City, Kansas. After graduating from high school, Jesse enrolled in community college but decided to work for the railroad. Now that he is retired, he frequently volunteers in soup kitchens. His advice for the younger generation is to know the value of work. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Late 1900s Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Kansas City, Kansas Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived <iframe width="400" height="285" id="kmsembed-1_bfdgtl2w" src="https://mediahub.ku.edu/embed/secure/iframe/entryId/1_bfdgtl2w/uiConfId/45147491/st/0" class="kmsembed" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" webkitallowfullscreen="webkitallowfullscreen" mozallowfullscreen="mozallowfullscreen" allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" referrerpolicy="no-referrer-when-downgrade" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Heartland Jesse"></iframe> Community Education Identity Kansas City Mexico